[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Sheepify]

I don't understand how you guys are doing so much DPS. :/ I looked at a parse of an i842 SimCraft 300k DPS ret (http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html) and did the exact same rotation/priority system, same talents, and everything (minus enchants/flasks/food/potions/Defiled Augmentation) and I pulled ~180k on Nythendra tonight, and pulling like 150k in Mythic+ now. It feels even lower than it was pre-patch. Could really use some kind of insight or help... Not really sure why. I know how to play ret, I've been one since Vanilla. I know I took the "wrong" path on Ashes, but surely that isn't my only problem.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etplz/advanced

Thanks.

[Deleted]

I'm not saying you influenced class design. You, and other people like you, (you specifically bare like 1% of the blame) told people that ret is garbage. Virtually every time someone came to this thread looking for advice during beta, they were told that the best thing they could do was to reroll. If you actually played in beta, ret was nowhere to be found. In the entire time I played beta, I saw 1 other ret paladin, and he was doing nothing right. As good, knowledgeable players, it's up to us to disseminate information to the community. It only took me talking about it every day for like 2 months, and sims repeatedly backing me up, before most people on these forums considered FCM to be a good trinket and Crusade to be far and away the best talent. Of all the logs that people looked at in beta, nearly all of them were using DP, almost no one was using DG pots, (which were amazing at the time) and of over 250 logs I went through, I saw not one person lining Crusade up with ANY on use trinket. People saw these results then they came to these forums, to this very thread, and asked if/why ret is bad, and you guys never once said that ret is fine and those people were just doing it wrong. It was just a bunch of cynical useless dogshit. Go back and read the first 50 pages of this thread. See how much useless bitching there is compared to actual good information.

If we had done a better job of informing players how to play ret, people wouldn't have mass rerolled away from this spec. We would have looked better on logs. We wouldn't have thousands of people in stream chats dissing our spec when they literally hadn't even seen a ret paladin before. Fun fact: I was the only ret paladin to ever run mythic+ with Slootbag in alpha/beta. Literally the only one. He didn't take people to mythic+ based on how good they were, he took anyone that put themselves on his wait list. Despite the fact that no one in his stream had ever even seen a re paladin in beta, they talked shit about the spec at least 20 times a day. That is not coming from experience, that is coming from a preconceived idea that ret is bad. That idea exists in equal parts of exaggeration from the community, (us) and lack of good information about how to play/spec/gear. This is not a class design problem, because our dps is fine. This is a socially created problem. It is perception.

On live I still see ret paladins running DP with no on use trinket of any kind and taking the short way to Ashes to Ashes.

And for the record, I don't pad. There's no such thing as padding on a single target fight. What I do is called playing well, and it's just as hard to do as any other class/spec. In fact, if we wanna talk other melee, I think arms warrior is a hell of a lot harder to play perfectly than ret paladin. Yet the casual warriors seem to be doing okay. Must be Blizzard's fault.

If the casual ret paladins are sucking now, it's because up until now there's been precious little information about how to actually play ret. Our theorycrafting is a joke compared to every other class/spec out there. As players that don't suck complete ass at this game, I think we have quite a bit more power than you realize.

But Laurcus, we were not "fine". That is why we had to be buffed. And still today we are beeing supported on the retribution passive.

Arms was exploiting and went under the radar (maybe cause no one took arms seriously lately?). That got fixed now.

I will agree with you that the information coming out isn't very good till this day. There is no consensus over what to do after 30% haste for example.
But really, the problem with Ret is that we were always a spec that was bursty and easy to swap targets on. That changed in Legion and crippled us. There is no denying that. Our mastery affects 2 targets and has a 9-10 second CD. That is what i want to bring up, as we have on the beta, that needs fixing most of all. Pretending that isn't a problem won't change anything. Its like warlocks not saying that their build up wasn't horrendous.
I do think you have the wrong idea as to why people left. Its because the new Ret isn't much fun to play. Everyone had a chance to play it since beta/ptr/pre-patch so i don't think its the Ret community making stuff up. I think judgment is responsible for that. It went one too many steps into beeing restrictive. I can pretty much bet that if it ever becomes a buff or gets removed lots of people will return. Also, it will massively help with the numbers of the average Ret and the perception of the spec.

[OrcsRLame]

I don't understand how you guys are doing so much DPS. :/ I looked at a parse of an i842 SimCraft 300k DPS ret (http://simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html) and did the exact same rotation/priority system, same talents, and everything (minus enchants/flasks/food/potions/Defiled Augmentation) and I pulled ~180k on Nythendra tonight, and pulling like 150k in Mythic+ now. It feels even lower than it was pre-patch. Could really use some kind of insight or help... Not really sure why. I know how to play ret, I've been one since Vanilla.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...etplz/advanced

Thanks.

Consumables, especially pots, do actually account for a large amount of your dps. Even after the nerf, potions are really insane. Your gear is also not enchanted, and you have no epic gem, both of those hurt a lot. I just simmed your character, and you sim at 284k with consumables, 225 without. It seems like you might have some rotational errors to iron out, but without logs it's hard for me to say for sure. Remember that the quality of your Crusade phase will be the largest factor in you doing good dps. Get to 5 HP, wait 2 seconds, judge, activate Crusade, spend, spend, Wake of Ashes, spend, spend. Then just go through the rotation like normal. Only spend at 5 HP, (especially when specced into Virtue's Blade, because downtime is a bitch) unless you have nothing to hit.

On Nythendra specifically, it can be tough to get off a good Crusade. There's two main times you want to hit it. The first time, is just after a rot goes out. Get to 5 HP before rot, see if you get rot, and if you don't, Crusade your ass off. You could still get the next rot, which really sucks when it happens, but it's better than hitting Crusade and instantly having to move. Alternatively, if you want to be safe and you're really confident in your bug/puddle dodging skills, wait to use Crusade until Nythendra starts using her second breath. She will go into P2 right after that, and there's a fair bit of time there were get to just hammer the boss with no RNG mechanics to screw your dps. Once you start using consumables, it's really important to hit your second pot at exactly 25 seconds left on Crusade.

For the record, your stat weights are crit 7.27, vers 7.08, haste 6.62, mastery 4.69.

- - - Updated - - -

But Laurcus, we were not "fine". That is why we had to be buffed. And still today we are beeing supported on the retribution passive.

Arms was exploiting and went under the radar (maybe cause no one took arms seriously lately?). That got fixed now.

I will agree with you that the information coming out isn't very good till this day. There is no consensus over what to do after 30% haste for example.
But really, the problem with Ret is that we were always a spec that was bursty and easy to swap targets on. That changed in Legion and crippled us. There is no denying that. Our mastery affects 2 targets and has a 9-10 second CD. That is what i want to bring up, as we have on the beta, that needs fixing most of all. Pretending that isn't a problem won't change anything. Its like warlocks not saying that their build up wasn't horrendous.
I do think you have the wrong idea as to why people left. Its because the new Ret isn't much fun to play. Everyone had a chance to play it since beta/ptr/pre-patch so i don't think its the Ret community making stuff up. I think judgment is responsible for that. It went one too many steps into beeing restrictive.

I'm not saying to not be vocal when things are bad, and I agree that our mastery is AIDS. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe people left because ret's not fun for them. I highly doubt the doom and gloom helped though.

I just think there's a middle ground to be found with telling everyone that comes asking for advice to reroll, and never saying anything negative about the spec. I think we'd have a much more healthy community if we just went like 2 notches in the other direction.

Oh, and on the subject of what to do after 30% haste, I think the answer is to not get 30% haste. As it stands right now with ret on live, (not even gonna comment on 7.1 ret right now) if I had my pick of stats from ~ilvl 1050 gear... I'd go for ~25% haste, ~12% vers as much crit as I could possibly get, and I'd run Virtue's Blade. I'm already kind of gearing like that now and crit/vers are significantly better for me than haste, even at just 21% haste.

[Maylander]

For the record, your stat weights are crit 7.27, vers 7.08, haste 6.62, mastery 4.69.

I find this particularly interesting. I've been doing quite a bit of simcrafting lately, and crit is always showing as the strongest stat, yet everyone keeps claiming that haste until 30% is the strongest due to Judgement. At first, I thought it was Crusade messing it up, as that will provide us with close to 30 seconds of guaranteed 30% haste, at which point haste loses its value, but even if I replace Crusade with DP crit is still considerably stronger than haste.

Is there an issue with simcraft? Is it the recent buff? Should we be gemming crit and using crit food right now?

[Gio]

hey Laurcus / azivir i noticed a 6days buff on your picture. isn't that the +1000 vers for the whole raid, inscription thing?

also 2 questions for all, im at almost 30% haste, 20% critical and 27% mastery, should i eat +375 critical or +200 strength

for pull im starting judgement - wake of ashes - crusade - Tv - Cs - Tv - Bow - Cs - Tv. is that alright?
armory link http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...B9rin/advanced - missing hidden satyr

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm not saying you influenced class design. You, and other people like you, (you specifically bare like 1% of the blame) told people that ret is garbage. Virtually every time someone came to this thread looking for advice during beta, they were told that the best thing they could do was to reroll. If you actually played in beta, ret was nowhere to be found. In the entire time I played beta, I saw 1 other ret paladin, and he was doing nothing right. As good, knowledgeable players, it's up to us to disseminate information to the community. It only took me talking about it every day for like 2 months, and sims repeatedly backing me up, before most people on these forums considered FCM to be a good trinket and Crusade to be far and away the best talent. Of all the logs that people looked at in beta, nearly all of them were using DP, almost no one was using DG pots, (which were amazing at the time) and of over 250 logs I went through, I saw not one person lining Crusade up with ANY on use trinket. People saw these results then they came to these forums, to this very thread, and asked if/why ret is bad, and you guys never once said that ret is fine and those people were just doing it wrong. It was just a bunch of cynical useless dogshit. Go back and read the first 50 pages of this thread. See how much useless bitching there is compared to actual good information.

If we had done a better job of informing players how to play ret, people wouldn't have mass rerolled away from this spec. We would have looked better on logs. We wouldn't have thousands of people in stream chats dissing our spec when they literally hadn't even seen a ret paladin before. Fun fact: I was the only ret paladin to ever run mythic+ with Slootbag in alpha/beta. Literally the only one. He didn't take people to mythic+ based on how good they were, he took anyone that put themselves on his wait list. Despite the fact that no one in his stream had ever even seen a ret paladin in beta, they talked shit about the spec at least 20 times a day. That is not coming from experience, that is coming from a preconceived idea that ret is bad. That idea exists in equal parts of exaggeration from the community, (us) and lack of good information about how to play/spec/gear. This is not a class design problem, because our dps is fine. This is a socially created problem. It is perception.

On live I still see ret paladins running DP with no on use trinket of any kind and taking the short way to Ashes to Ashes.

And for the record, I don't pad. There's no such thing as padding on a single target fight. What I do is called playing well, and it's just as hard to do as any other class/spec. In fact, if we wanna talk other melee, I think arms warrior is a hell of a lot harder to play perfectly than ret paladin. Yet the casual warriors seem to be doing okay. Must be Blizzard's fault.

If the casual ret paladins are sucking now, it's because up until now there's been precious little information about how to actually play ret. Our theorycrafting is a joke compared to every other class/spec out there. As players that don't suck complete ass at this game, I think we have quite a bit more power than you realize.

oh yeah, let's put the blame on a few posters on some mmo-oriented forum.
Let's put the blame on those who saw Ret for what it was . Let's put the blame on those who told the truth.

There is a fething metric ton of issues with Ret both in PvP and in Dragonslaying.
There is a fething metric ton of issues with Ret' mechanics, talents and traits.
Let's put the blame on those who tried to point it all out and draw attention to issues.
We're the bad guys, sure as sure.

D'you know what is the percentile of playerbase that visits MMo-C? What's the percentile that comes here to read Ret whinings?
I'd say 2-3% would be generous enough.
So you're saying by preaching to 2-3% of the whole fething playerbase, we injected the vision of "lolret" into the whole playrbases mind?
I'm not having it.

Sure Ret can pull some decent numbers(and is buffed as of yesterday for no apparent reason), but the issues are still there.
Rotation is bland, and is repetitive as all feth. When I compare it to my Fury warrs rotation it's not even funny.
Yet check it out where's Fury

Low mobility, which is indeed a huge issue , and it won't get fixed in any way.
Totally anal way to level up artifact.
+45% bonus damage to ds locked behind dead last artifact traits.
Echo of Ten percents being utter shite.
Artifact having virtual zero interaction with talented abilities.

Then we add PvP in equation and the amount of issues doubles, or tripes, or quadriples even.

But hey, let's blame MMo-C posters, they are the root of evil

[Deleted]

I find this particularly interesting. I've been doing quite a bit of simcrafting lately, and crit is always showing as the strongest stat, yet everyone keeps claiming that haste until 30% is the strongest due to Judgement. At first, I thought it was Crusade messing it up, as that will provide us with close to 30 seconds of guaranteed 30% haste, at which point haste loses its value, but even if I replace Crusade with DP crit is still considerably stronger than haste.

Is there an issue with simcraft? Is it the recent buff? Should we be gemming crit and using crit food right now?

You should sim your char and do what is best for your char. For my, haste is still well over strength even, and then comes versatility and only then crit.
There is no stat weight that can be applied to everyone.

Only thing that seems to be standard is mastery last, even when i got over 30% haste and haste dropped behind crit and vers, mastery remained last

edit: the char he replied to uses Virtues Blade that inflates crit weight

[SonicTMP]

You are part of the problem Storm. Not once have you ever had anything postive to say. Snark only goes so far before it turns into blind ignorance.

Every time we got a buff, you bitched. Everytime something changed you bitched. Everytime someone tried to point out how to make the spec work with what we got you bitched. Reality is you, and people like you, have done nothing but cry and complain for months over every tiny little thing. Refusing to adapt, refusing to even think of giving it a try.

There are rets climbing the arena ladders, there are rets putting out respectable raid logs. You spend more time crying spewing out "fething" bullshit instead of being one of those rets actually proving the spec is worth something. Which is fairly typical of people only make excuses.

The bad players do nothing but bitch and complain. The good players do the best with what they have while lobbying for improvements without being little bitches about it. MMo-C is mostly filled with the former. Sure as Sure.

[Deleted]

Stop saying posters here are the problem. That is simply not true. Maybe it contributed 1% at best, but posters are not responsible for the state the spec is in. Saying it was fine when it was underpowered is probably just as destructive as people could see that was obviously not true.

Laurcus makes the point of perhaps finding a middle ground. I don't necessarely disagree, but i'm unsure Blizzard will listen to us if we aren't clear.

Also, aren't you the guy that claimed to be awesome with 20%+ uptime on retribution? I top meters on my guild aswell you know... it doesn't mean i'm blind to the problems. As i said, stop projecting yourself. What experience every one of us has is laughably irrelevant. Its the numbers of thousands of logs that give the clear picture. You beeing able to play it and doing good numbers and 90% of Rets not beeing able to go past 150k DPS results in a bad spec that needs changes and buffs. Look at the big picture.

It reminds me of religion. The world does not revolve around you.

[OrcsRLame]

hey Laurcus / azivir i noticed a 6days buff on your picture. isn't that the +1000 vers for the whole raid, inscription thing?

also 2 questions for all, im at almost 30% haste, 20% critical and 27% mastery, should i eat +375 critical or +200 strength

for pull im starting judgement - wake of ashes - crusade - Tv - Cs - Tv - Bow - Cs - Tv. is that alright?
armory link http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...B9rin/advanced - missing hidden satyr

Yes, the 6 day buff is a Vantus Rune. And sadly, they don't work on mythic. There's nothing in the description that indicates it doesn't, so my guild was all like, "Cool, we don't expect to get more than 2 bosses down on mythic this week, so let's use a Vantus Rune on the first one!" And then when you actually mouseover the buff, it says some shit like, "Vantus Runes are powerless against mythic opponents." It was a total waste of materials.

For pull, I like to stand as close as possible to the boss, run in then CS-BoJ-CS-J-Crusade-TV-CS-TV-Wake-TV-CS-TV, etc. There's nothing wrong with starting with judgment, but it is a big dps loss to start with Wake of Ashes. You want to use Wake to help stack Crusade faster. I'd go with crit or versatility food.

- - - Updated - - -

I find this particularly interesting. I've been doing quite a bit of simcrafting lately, and crit is always showing as the strongest stat, yet everyone keeps claiming that haste until 30% is the strongest due to Judgement. At first, I thought it was Crusade messing it up, as that will provide us with close to 30 seconds of guaranteed 30% haste, at which point haste loses its value, but even if I replace Crusade with DP crit is still considerably stronger than haste.

Is there an issue with simcraft? Is it the recent buff? Should we be gemming crit and using crit food right now?

I don't know why things work the way they do, but I'm fairly certain there's nothing wrong with simcraft. I've been following simcraft religiously, and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. Personally, my crit and vers are so close to each other, that I'm actually gemming/enchanting vers, and using crit food.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop saying posters here are the problem. That is simply not true. Maybe it contributed 1% at best, but posters are not responsible for the state the spec is in. Saying it was fine when it was underpowered is probably just as destructive as people could see that was obviously not true.

Laurcus makes the point of perhaps finding a middle ground. I don't necessarely disagree, but i'm unsure Blizzard will listen to us if we aren't clear.

Also, aren't you the guy that claimed to be awesome with 20%+ uptime on retribution? I top meters on my guild aswell you know... it doesn't mean i'm blind to the problems. As i said, stop projecting yourself. What experience every one of us has is laughably irrelevant. Its the numbers of thousands of logs that give the clear picture. You beeing able to play it and doing good numbers and 90% of Rets not beeing able to go past 150k DPS results in a bad spec that needs changes and buffs. Look at the big picture.

It reminds me of religion. The world does not revolve around you.

Concerning Blizzard listening to us; I do think we should be clear about what the spec's problems are. If I recall, Watcher even said kind of recently that it's hard to get an idea of what is wrong with a spec by reading the class forums, specifically because of hyperbole. Now, that could just be him making excuses, but, well... They haven't been listening to us anyway, so a change in tactics couldn't possibly make them listen less than they did during alpha/beta.

[Deleted]

Concerning Blizzard listening to us; I do think we should be clear about what the spec's problems are. If I recall, Watcher even said kind of recently that it's hard to get an idea of what is wrong with a spec by reading the class forums, specifically because of hyperbole. Now, that could just be him making excuses, but, well... They haven't been listening to us anyway, so a change in tactics couldn't possibly make them listen less than they did during alpha/beta.

Hey... i'm up for whatever aslong as they listen. I don't post much in the official forums unless im testing stuff. Been too busy to go on the PTR. Herbing, i tell you. :/

[Improtaight]

Just went over the few last posts, i see people are starting to blame the forums and saying that everything was ok with Ret, i dont agree with that.

Blizz went over the data from the raid, and they saw that the majority of Rets were not ok in aspects of DPS, and they probably were smart enough to exclude the Retribution buff from the comparsion.

You can say that Ret were buffed for no reason, you can say that you pull off 400k in a fight, and you can explain that you're pulling crusade, when you get to 15 stacks you use a potion or a trinket to maximize your dps, but you are ignoring the real problems:

• Judgement buff / colossus smash gameplay - awful.
• Stupid Blessings and Retribution buff - lots of passive
• dull rotation
• crap mobility (imo)

i also agree that its much more "complicated" than it was before, playing Ret, and harder to maximize ur DPS...

[OrcsRLame]

Hey... i'm up for whatever aslong as they listen. I don't post much in the official forums unless im testing stuff. Been too busy to go on the PTR. Herbing, i tell you. :/

Fucking herbs are cancer! Takes so many pots to try and push high mythic+. It's like ~40k worth of pots for one goddamn attempt at a high clear. This expansion is seriously gonna make me lose my mind.

- - - Updated - - -

Just went over the few last posts, i see people are starting to blame the forums and saying that everything was ok with Ret, i dont agree with that.

Blizz went over the data from the raid, and they saw that the majority of Rets were not ok in aspects of DPS, and they probably were smart enough to exclude the Retribution buff from the comparsion.

You can say that Ret were buffed for no reason, you can say that you pull off 400k in a fight, and you can explain that you're pulling crusade, when you get to 15 stacks you use a potion or a trinket to maximize your dps, but you are ignoring the real problems:

• Judgement buff / colossus smash gameplay - awful.
• Stupid Blessings and Retribution buff - lots of passive
• dull rotation
• crap mobility (imo)

i also agree that its much more "complicated" than it was before, playing Ret, and harder to maximize ur DPS...

I don't think that ret was buffed for no reason. I'm very much okay with the buffs we got. What I was referring to is the perception that still exists today that ret is so bad they're nothing but a burden on any group. While we were bad up until we got those buffs, we were not bad enough to warrant never bringing a ret for anything ever. This was originally in response to people claiming that they kept getting rejected for pug mythic+s.

Just to firmly state my position on ret concerning game balance: I do not think we're overpowered right now. I think that we're in a more or less balanced state. A slight buff or slight nerf would not significantly impact game balance right now imo.

[Morally Grey Storm]

You are part of the problem Storm.

Sure as sure I am.
Disregard this, the only time I see you posting is to bitch about big bad Storm.
Get a hold of yourself, kid.

Not once have you ever had anything postive to say. Snark only goes so far before it turns into blind ignorance.

If you were anywhere competent, you'd know I recognized positive changes for what they were, yet did not allow them to cloud the whole picture.

uncomprehensible mumbling and a pathetic attempt at stalking and/or dissing

feth off and away with you.
You are nothing but a little mildly poisonous lurker who comes now and then just to bitch about me.
You did not ever never engage yourself in discussion, nor did you bring constructive, or any, feedback.

You will not derail threads and shitpost.

[Deleted]

So i just saw the spell changes. I guess that means they didnt buff crusader strike and judgement after all?


Retribution

Blade of Justice Strikes an enemy with the Blade of Justice, dealing [ 0.880 * 400% 450% of weapon damage or 0.030 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 450% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 450% of weapon damage or 450% of weapon damage ] Physical damage. Generates 2 Holy Power. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
12 yd range. Instant. 10.5 sec cooldown.

Divine Storm Unleashes a whirl of divine energy, dealing (180% 216% of weapon damage) Holy damage to all nearby enemies. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Instant.

Templar's Verdict A powerful weapon strike that deals [ 0.725 * 400% 440% of weapon damage or 0.028 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 440% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 440% of weapon damage or 440% of weapon damage ] Holy damage. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant.


Says nothing about the 13% buffs to Crusader Strike and Judgement, guess they decided against it?

[Anardel]

So i just saw the spell changes. I guess that means they didnt buff crusader strike and judgement after all?


Retribution

Blade of Justice Strikes an enemy with the Blade of Justice, dealing [ 0.880 * 400% 450% of weapon damage or 0.030 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 450% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 450% of weapon damage or 450% of weapon damage ] Physical damage. Generates 2 Holy Power. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
12 yd range. Instant. 10.5 sec cooldown.

Divine Storm Unleashes a whirl of divine energy, dealing (180% 216% of weapon damage) Holy damage to all nearby enemies. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Instant.

Templar's Verdict A powerful weapon strike that deals [ 0.725 * 400% 440% of weapon damage or 0.028 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 440% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 440% of weapon damage or 440% of weapon damage ] Holy damage. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant.


Says nothing about the 13% buffs to Crusader Strike and Judgement, guess they decided against it?

Those are PTR buffs (7.1). The buff to Judgement and CS is already implemented on Live.

About that PTR buff, I find it neccessary, hell I even said about that buffs going to happen just because when you compare dmg coefficients between specs you realize ret paladin was the one with the lowest. It's common to see specs with coefficients like "deal 1400% weapon dmg" and ret has "400%" to an attack that is a finisher and needs ramp up time. Also our HoPo generators still hit like a wet nooddle. CS scales with crit 'cause Ashbringer trait, but in next patch we're forced into Blade of Justice so we have to choose between VB or new BoW (AoW proc) and the only way to make VB desirable is to make BoJ hit like a truck when it crits, so they buffed its base dmg.

[Deleted]

So i just saw the spell changes. I guess that means they didnt buff crusader strike and judgement after all?


Retribution

Blade of Justice Strikes an enemy with the Blade of Justice, dealing [ 0.880 * 400% 450% of weapon damage or 0.030 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 450% of weapon damage + 0.400 * 450% of weapon damage or 450% of weapon damage ] Physical damage. Generates 2 Holy Power. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
12 yd range. Instant. 10.5 sec cooldown.

Divine Storm Unleashes a whirl of divine energy, dealing (180% 216% of weapon damage) Holy damage to all nearby enemies. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Instant.

Templar's Verdict A powerful weapon strike that deals [ 0.725 * 400% 440% of weapon damage or 0.028 * Level * 400% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 400% of weapon damage or 400% 440% of weapon damage + 0.450 * 440% of weapon damage or 440% of weapon damage ] Holy damage. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant.


Says nothing about the 13% buffs to Crusader Strike and Judgement, guess they decided against it?

That's for the 7.1 PTR so nothing concerning us right now ... well beside the big turd they try to serve us in form of the new crusade...

[Deleted]

Those are PTR buffs (7.1). The buff to Judgement and CS is already implemented on Live.

About that PTR buff, I find it neccessary, hell I even said about that buffs going to happen just because when you compare dmg coefficients between specs you realize ret paladin was the one with the lowest. It's common to see specs with coefficients like "deal 1400% weapon dmg" and ret has "400%" to an attack that is a finisher and needs ramp up time. Also our HoPo generators still hit like a wet nooddle. CS scales with crit 'cause Ashbringer trait, but in next patch we're forced into Blade of Justice so we have to choose between VB or new BoW (AoW proc) and the only way to make VB desirable is to make BoJ hit like a truck when it crits, so they buffed its base dmg.

So what you guys are saying, that they will buff our TV, DS and BoJ even further? That doesnt seem legit to be fair...

[Deleted]

So what you guys are saying, that they will buff our TV, DS and BoJ even further? That doesnt seem legit to be fair...

fi you had bothered to read the rest of the notes you would have noticed we will also receive a "redesign" of the crusade talent. yes i put redesign between "" since it is more like a rimjob without lube or to put it more polite a nerf.

[Deleted]

fi you had bothered to read the rest of the notes you would have noticed we will also receive a "redesign" of the crusade talent. yes i put redesign between "" since it is more like a rimjob without lube or to put it more polite a nerf.

Can i ask what your point is? A redesigned spell doesnt have anything to do with what i just replied.