Is the current speed of progression normal for raids?

[Andriokz]

Is it normal for guilds to complete Mythic/Old Heroic content within only 2 weeks or be 5/7? I know these are the best of the best, but I thought it was still a 1-3 month process. I've seen so many guilds at 7/7 on heroic the first week.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

It is when it's broken up in to three raids for one tier. I suspect the first two will be 'easy' and then Nighthold will be where we'll see the typical hangups from Mythic progression.

Those who are complaining that the game is too easy because of this probably haven't even killed Normal Ursoc yet.

[sdracklryeg]

Emerald Nightmare is definitely on the easier side of things, Xavius in particular is definitely undertuned, but all things considered It is not outside of the 'normal' realm of difficulty.

I'm pretty sure all the doomsayers who are claiming WoW is casualised easy garbage nowadays have just completely blocked the fact that Mythic Hellfire Citadel was one of the harder raids Blizzard's ever released from their memory

Also It hasn't been a 1-3 months process since Tier 5 aka the last tier that Blizzard released where things were horribly overtuned and/or mechanically broken. Black Temple was cleared in 2 weeks and pretty much every tier since then with the exception of Ulduar (Yogg+0 was a very big DPS check and required a lot of gearing) and ICC (Limited Attempts) has been cleared in 1-3 weeks.

[anaxie]

ICCs issue wasn't limited attempts.

It was that when people hit 11/12H they hotfix buffed lich kings hp.

Meaning not only was his enrage tight 0-10% buff. But his Val'kyr had so much fucking hp that if one thing went wrong someone is dead. If someone dies pre P3 and can not be rezzed. It more then likely is a wipe. Keep in mind this is after 3 months of gating before Heroic even unlocked. so each raid had at LEAST 1 Legendary and pretty much Normal BiS at this point on most people including full tier sets obviously.

Insane DPS checks, Insane damage output with his raid aoe's. Just leaping the ledge in transitions alone you usually lost 50% hp from the first tick of remorseless winter. Mechanics wise defile was an issue if... certain people got it. OR it was a back to back 1 second Defile+ Valk lineup. Pray defiler doesnt get Valkd or was a warlock or hunter or hes probably gonna die and thus the raid falls behind and snowballs.

Vast majority of this was from his Hotfix HP buff. WIthout it the World first would not had been at 5% zone buff.


If ICC had 0 gating Festergut and Blood Queen Lanathel might of been the proper DPS block check bosses they were ment to be instead of ez as fuck.


That said Lich King H25 and Rag H25 and finishing Sunwell are my fondest Memories in 10 years of Raiding before i threw in the towel permanently. The loot RNG just became too much with WoD. Looking at Legion. God no. It god as bad as i knew it would. Fully Diablo

[Shenkz]

lets also not forget that they are planning on breaking alot of addons that assist with positioning and stuff in 7.1

[Demeia]

They don't design Mythic content for the world first crowd but for ordinary Mythic raiders (OK, weird to call that bunch ordinary but you get the picture). Since they are now expecting to push out new raid content, they probably want to tune things fairly generously. If the world first crowd beats it fast, it's probably not a big deal to them. It has to be tuned so that an average Mythic raid can kill it when they get there in the proper gear.

I think this is actually a good sign.

[Deleted]

We're only a month into the expansion and unlike previous expacs we already have legendary items & most content can reward absurd gear. Getting 870+ items from cracking some nuts in Val'Sharah for example.. its crazy. I think overall guilds are simply geared too well.

It gives people incentive to play though that everything can reward an immensely superior upgrade and for that reason its good business but 18 hours to clear the first raid in Mythic progression is quick. Sometimes they don't last the week but not even a day in this case.

[xpose]

The people crying over how easy mythic raiding has become are the same people who probably watch sports and think they can coach a team better or make the "obvious" play.

- - - Updated - - -

We're only a month into the expansion and unlike previous expacs we already have legendary items & most content can reward absurd gear. Getting 870+ items from cracking some nuts in Val'Sharah for example.. its crazy. I think overall guilds are simply geared too well.

It gives people incentive to play though that everything can reward an immensely superior upgrade and for that reason its good business but 18 hours to clear the first raid in Mythic progression is quick. Sometimes they don't last the week but not even a day in this case.

There's too many factors that go into why mythics are being completed quicker than raiding in past expansion, being overgeared may be one of them but its not as big as you are making it out to be. The world first guild had an average ilvl of 868 which is barely above what heroics award.

How many titanforged 870+ items have you gotten from WQ?

[ThePants999]

I don't know about mythic, but we cleared heroic WAY faster than any previous tier. We do have a better team than ever before, and of course the gearing system has made us much better geared pre-raids than ever before. I don't know how to weight those factors... but it DOES feel like an easier raid.

[Thelxi]

Blizz is going to have a hard time tightly tuning stuff now that bleeding edge guilds can cheese and whore the shit out of gear, while normal progression guilds lag far behind these extremes. So they either tune encounters to give the bleeding edge something to work on but completely cockblock anything underneath bleeding edge guilds, or they tune them around regular progression guilds which makes it a walk in the park for bleeding edge guilds (compared to the past).

The new gearing system has a loot of implications.

[Deleted]

No.

It looks like Blizzard undertuned the content a bit. They probably didn't think hardcore people would go through those kind of immense length they went through.
Blizzard probably had ilvl 850-860 in mind for people to have on the first week of mythic raiding, but with mythic+, split heroics etc. the hardcore guys were north of 865 and even up to 877 and could breeze through mythic.

[Deleted]

How many titanforged 870+ items have you gotten from WQ?

1

But I play casually, the top guilds do heroic split clears, ran god knows how many mythic+ dungeons and the majority have at least 1 legendary and have farmed artifact power immensely to have 3 golden traits before Mythic opened. And when they lifted the 850 limit I'm sure quite a few of them got lucky with titanforged etc.

[PurechaosSK]

New systems for gear including mythic mythic plus WQ loot and TF/WF rolls create a system where you can get higher gear than the raid was tuned for.

FOr example everyokne that has cleared mythic will be ilevel 880-900 before the next raid even comes out so it too will be a joke.

[Jotaux]

No.

It looks like Blizzard undertuned the content a bit. They probably didn't think hardcore people would go through those kind of immense length they went through.
Blizzard probably had ilvl 850-860 in mind for people to have on the first week of mythic raiding, but with mythic+, split heroics etc. the hardcore guys were north of 865 and even up to 877 and could breeze through mythic.

I don't really think they care about the hardcore guys. So its probably tuned appropriately for what they want.

[Beace]

I don't really think they care about the hardcore guys. So its probably tuned appropriately for what they want.

Have you somehow missed the previous 18 tiers? We haven't had a tier cleared this fast and easy in many years.

No, this is in no way normal. It's not just Mythic either. There's a record number of guilds that have fully cleared Heroic already (I dunno if it's actually a record, but it's extremely high).

[Jotaux]

Have you somehow missed the previous 18 tiers? We haven't had a tier cleared this fast and easy in many years.

No, this is in no way normal. It's not just Mythic either. There's a record number of guilds that have fully cleared Heroic already (I dunno if it's actually a record, but it's extremely high).

Have you missed that catering to the hardcore is what lead to WoD? WoD had great raids and not much else. Now they are focusing less on the hardcore and its turned out a fantastic expansion.

[Beace]

Have you missed that catering to the hardcore is what lead to WoD? WoD had great raids and not much else. Now they are focusing less on the hardcore and its turned out a fantastic expansion.

I completely disagree. Legion is just as hardcore as previous expansions, possibly more so considering you can basically grind AP 24/7. Furthermore I don't see how WoD was any more hardcore than its previous expansions.

Blizzard has always made sure that the top 0.01% are challenged, and rightfully so. It matters more than some of you might think.

It's obvious Blizzard made a mistake when tuning this tier. The simple fact that the last boss is a pushover compared to the second last should tell you that. Cenarius M is probably pretty well tuned from what the numbers say. But the last boss should take days (or even weeks) to kill, not 2 hours.

[Jotaux]

I completely disagree. Legion is just as hardcore as previous expansions, possibly more so considering you can basically grind AP 24/7. Furthermore I don't see how WoD was any more hardcore than its previous expansions.

Blizzard has always made sure that the top 0.01% are challenged, and rightfully so. It matters more than some of you might think.

No Legion allows for less hardcore content and you have far more freedom to do whatever you want to do. You can grind AP 24/7 and then you'll be so far ahead the game will lose its challenge which isn't want the majority is doing.

[Deleted]

Well to be honest, probably the world first guys simply got to crazy prepared/skilled levels. Honestly, I likely could not come close to the numbers these guys are pulling while executing mechanics perfectly if I was hitting a bloody dummy while using the same gear. And I don't consider myself to be a bad player.

[Beace]

No Legion allows for less hardcore content and you have far more freedom to do whatever you want to do. You can grind AP 24/7 and then you'll be so far ahead the game will lose its challenge which isn't want the majority is doing.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Pretty much all expansions has had content for different kind of players. Maybe WoD had a bit less of it than Legion, but I don't see how that in any way makes Legion a non-hardcore expansion.

The idea of calling an expansion hardcore or not hardcore is kinda silly.