The RNG Brickwall

[Kikazz]

Some guaranteed goals.

I personally liked farming currency in order to purchase some items.

you say that, then people will bitch about the grind.

remove rng for a grind, they will winge.

people wont be happy till they can log in and faceroll group or raid content solo while it is current like its a Single player game.

[Xires]

I love Legion. Great expansion overall. But I think Blizzard needs to fix some of the end game RNG before people start quitting.

• Leveling professions with quests and doing dailies... great! Then you hit the RNG brickwall of discovering the 3rd star rank.

• Gearing up then you hit an RNG wall with getting a legendary.

• A lot of the hidden artifact skins are total RNG.


You're going through the entire initial leveling experience at a nice pace. Great progression rhythm in everything. All of a sudden you hit that point at end game where 1) can't get a legendary because its total RNG, 2) can't get that extra artifact skin because it's total RNG, 3) no profession progression until you get WQ spawns/discoveries.


While the profession stuff doesn't seem like a major deal. Not getting a legendary is pretty shit. Also the fact that some hidden artifact skins have huge grinds after unlocking it makes the initial RNG extremely frustrating. You could do 10 WQ/day, a ton of dungeons all the time, lots of PVP but none of it will go towards that grind because you weren't lucky enough to land that skin.


What do you guys think? Are you okay with the RNG (talking to unlucky people - of course if you're lucky you like it)? If not, what do you think Blizzard should do to fix it?

1. I have a shit ton of rank 3's but not enough rank 2's to use those rank 3.
2. You don't NEED to get a legendary to win. I don't have one..it sucks...but rng is rng is rng.
3. A lot of them are rng and some are skill and require effort.

You should NOT expect everyone to get legendary's all at once and all in the first freakin month.....you got way to used to having legendary's be guaranteed (which was stupid) If anything they should just take legendary's out of the game because apparently now people just expect to get one and they expect to get one NOW!!!! The pool of entitlement players is really getting to be annoying. I have ZERO legendary's while I have seen well over a dozen people in guild get 1 or 2. Shit happens.

[realitycheck]

Last night we wiped on Mythic Ursoc due to enrage with 900k HP on him.

So... Yes, in fact 5 ilvls could have meant a kill there.

Try harder.

Point is simple, they have this advantage over me not because they do some super challenging content, but simply because they were gaming the system and spamming boost M+2 runs with 3 chests every time farming AP like mad and occasionally getting Titanforged here and there.

I just picked up a random raid quote to give you my point of view of this RNG.

I have been a raider for a really, really long time. I always get pumped up when a new raid is about to come out and trying to do my best in terms of getting the best gear - whatever the game offers me. So far, I can say that my efforts were worth it because I was always entering a new raid with probably the best gear in the raid or at least top 3. That's how I roll - I like to be a proper raider and do everything the game offers me to get good gear.

So... Legion. The week when mythic opened I was 851 ilvl, highest in the guild. Was proud I did my best. 2 weeks later half of the raid is at 865+ and I am 852. I'm a trial and supposedly didn't get loot the first 2 weeks, but that wasn't the issue. The issue was people getting so, so much luck in M+ with 870+ items and so on. People got legendaries. Me... I just had to keep doing 7/7 obliterum items just to get something new on me. Result? I'm getting benched just cause the other lock in the guild god the best legendary, reckt the RNGesus on M+ while I got no luck. So, I ask this, how is this fair? My entire gameplay that has been always about competing hard, getting the best stuff out there, has now been gated by RNG and with no surprise I get benched just cause I don't have the gear.

You'd say "go farm m++". Yeah, I did. The real deal is M+6+++ - do you know how many people would like to take a warlock to mythics above 6? Getting declined to 9 out of 10 dungeons with the 10th being full of complete retards that can't even complete the dungeon within the time limit... how is that fair? I get their point of view - we all want DHs, Monks, Mages and Hunters to 6+ just cause they own them. Pull 4 packs, get 20 mobs - a lock can never compete with the instant aoe that those classes are capable of. So, spamming 6+ is kinda not that easy if you are not one of those classes. You'd say "go with your guild". Well, like I said, I had to switch guilds and I'm a trial. The whole guild is full of 5-man groups that run all the dungeons together so I just have to pug. I'm not even gonna start with the starlight rose & fjarnskaggl abusrd where you are just forced to farm to get your best flasks, pots & food which are mandatory for a mythic raiding guild.

So, that's my opinion. A hard working raider that just got gated by RNG and now is seeing the result by getting benched just cause some other people got insanely lucky. Just to add something up - Exalted with all the factions, that should tell you how many WQs I did. I really got no clue how many dungeons I have ran so far... 100? More? They are so many that I just can't count. So, my low ilvl compared to my raid atm has nothing to do with the lack of efforts on my behalf. It just has everything to do with RNG.

Thank you, Blizzard. For the first time in 12 years I got no thrill and excitement to raid and I feel frustrated observing other raiders' luck.

[DesMephisto]

Bad luck protection is real. So whats the problem? RNG is RNG is RNG, you can counter RNG with more time.

[Deleted]

RNG in systems like Diablo are ok because you can farm content solo all over again and it poses 0 challenge. RNG in WoW with content on weekly lockout is just not good. People will burnout from legion and Battlefield 1 is just around the corner. I plan to switch to "only raids and daily bag" schedule once BF1 drops because i get annoyed by tones of shit RNG.

[VinnieJones]

I'm getting annoyed with the rng drop rate of loot.

No matter how many dungeons I run, nothing drops for me. It's becoming a running joke at the moment. Oh don't invite VJ, he hexes all the loot :-)

[Runefeather]

I think the paradigm just shifted is all; of course whether you enjoy it or not is yours to own.
I see the "fixed" rewards in the order set and artifact power, and to a lesser extent buying/crafting gear.

Like earlier systems, PvE currency had a certain longevity before you ran out of stuff to buy or the stuff was no longer relevant (you outgeared it).
Not to say this is perfect, but calling this a brickwall reads more like hyperbole. When you peel back those layers, wow is still the same game. I think people are way more hung up on "expecting" legendaries/titanforged than they should be.

I agree with this.

Also I personally like the new system. Having legendaries be so hard to get is what makes them feel special. If everyone could get what they wanted it wouldn't be the same, it'd just be bis and required farming. This way I can play casually and enjoy the game, when I finally get a legendary I will be happy.

[Deleted]

Goals, stuff to work towards, motivation. Take your pick.
You know, like WoD had with:
-Apexis crystals
-PvP honor / conquest points
-Legendary quest line
-Legendary weekly upgrades
-Valor for item upgrades.

Here's Legion's list of stuff to work towards that aren't useless rep items you will outgear by the time you hit exalted:
-

See the problem?

Well, tbh there's always a goal to work towards. Doing mythic and mythic+ dungeons for example. It's just not guaranteed loot, which is pretty nice. I mean, do you dare to say, that farming valor and apexis crystals was a fun thing to do, and not a taunting task?

[justinhalfout]

Bad luck protection is real. So whats the problem? RNG is RNG is RNG, you can counter RNG with more time.

2016 and still believing the bad luck protection maymay without being presented with a single shred of evidence it even exists at all...please.

[Kokolums]

blizz makes things challenging and people say its too hard so they nerf it. Then people complain everything is faceroll so they add rng. Then people complain that rng is skillless and boring so they gate things. Then people complain about gates so they make everything a simple grind. Then people complain about grinds.

The problem is none of these things. Most gamers just want god mode. So they whine to try to get it. If they get it, they one shot the game and then quit 5 minutes later and say its boring. Blizz is kinda playing a shell game with the whiners, rotating between difficulty, gates, grinds and rng to keep the whiners off balance.

[Deleted]

Then climb Mythic+ to get to 10, guaranteed Ilvl 880 piece at the end of the week.

Why bother though when you can get that from world quest if you grind enough ?

The issue with the current RNG is you need to grind everything everytime. At no point you can move on from one piece of content you grinded till your eyes bleed to another.

Also I personally like the new system. Having legendaries be so hard to get is what makes them feel special.

Please, they are not hard to get, just random (and possibly bugged).

you say that, then people will bitch about the grind.

remove rng for a grind, they will winge.

people wont be happy till they can log in and faceroll group or raid content solo while it is current like its a Single player game.

Do you have evidence supporting this statement ? I ve never seen anyone asking for more RNG in wow in 12 years.

[skannerz22]

but if 1% of people get it due to no RNG then 99% of people are mad like that of wotlk icc so they made LFR to fix that issue
if 99% people get it due to they want to make everyone happy then it loses it's uniqueness it's no longer a legendary..like that of epics


at the moment
20-40% of the subscribers are getting a legendary
that is kind of bad rng..slightly rigged imo it should be 50%

so do you want 1% people to get something
or do you want 99% to get it?
if you dislike both then that's why rng exists

rng keeps an item still being unique at the same time as giving a massive amount of more people the item than if it was linearly set to 1% like thunderfury

[Deleted]

I for one am tired of the shit tons of rng blizzard decided to put into the game with legion. I feel the same as Darsithis, I would like to be able to do something that actual gets me closer to a goal (read legendary). Without being able to farm some kind of currency (or have any other visual representation of progress) doing activities over and over again for the small chance a legendary/titanforged/... drops starts feeling mind numbing at some point.

You get no satisfaction from working for something if the road to it is invisble and there is nothing to help you get an idea how far you've gotten. The payoff is exclusively at the end and nobody knows where the end is...

RNG is fun when you get lucky and makes you feel miserable all the other times. It's literally just a tool to extend the lifetime of content and doesn't add anything fun gameplay wise.

Besides valor/justice/honor vendors and crafted gear, NOTHING in this game has ever been non-rng.

Seriously, there isnt a single gear drop in the game that isnt to some extent RNG.

Progression of your character is NOT locked behind legendaries, professions or hidden artifact skins. Those are nice to have, but not needed to progress your character.

WoW is a game about getting better gear for your character, if your ilvl is going up, you're progressing. If you value other venues of progression, thats fine, but WoW isnt designed around that.

[Deleted]

Last night we wiped on Mythic Ursoc due to enrage with 900k HP on him.

So... Yes, in fact 5 ilvls could have meant a kill there.

Try harder.

Point is simple, they have this advantage over me not because they do some super challenging content, but simply because they were gaming the system and spamming boost M+2 runs with 3 chests every time farming AP like mad and occasionally getting Titanforged here and there.

Why didn't you also than spam m+2, or am i missing something here?

[Aggrophobic]

The RNG part of Legion is really takes away a lof of the fun.
It's a cool expantion but there are few mistakes that really drags it down from being this really great expantion and RNG is one of thoes things.

[Deleted]

They deserve it because they pay the bills, they deserve to beat all the content and have equal chance competing against hardcores because they are the majority

This isn't a P2W Game. You either are good enough to earn your reward, or you are not. I am glad that there is no way for baddies to grind out the best rewards, since most baddies seem to have no problem playing for hours everyday, but can't seem to raid even normal difficulty, or normal mythic dung's.

[MasterHamster]

People seem to somehow forget that otherwise they'd be at a wall at 835 instead.
But all the game time spent actually having a chance of upgrades (that still exists even at this 845 wall) is ignored.

But yep, the game needs a Valor vendor again. I was very skeptical when they said there wouldn't be one in Legion.

However one thing is certain...
People hate RNG until it's taken out of the game.

[Deleted]

WoW is a game about getting better gear for your character, if your ilvl is going up, you're progressing. If you value other venues of progression, thats fine, but WoW isnt designed around that.

Say who ? I remember a time when WoW was about playing in PvP or progressing in PVE. Gearing up wasn't the goal but a mean.

Besides valor/justice/honor vendors and crafted gear, NOTHING in this game has ever been non-rng.

Seriously, there isnt a single gear drop in the game that isnt to some extent RNG.

There is good RNG and bad RNG, legion did put the RNG into hyperdrive mode (as there are several layers of RNG). When you had to kill a boss to find a particular item the RNG was mostly to know whether the item will drop or not or if you ll get it. Now :

a) you're not even sure an item will drop from any particular boss fro the group,
b) you re not sure you ll get the item,
c) you re not sure it will have a relevant ilvl in regard to your gear.

Also, in older iteration of wow, gearing up was tied to progression. The higher your ilvl the higher end the content you could do. Once you were geared on a lower tier of content you didn't need to run that content anymore. With the current system you can never fully move on from one particular content (WQ, mythic dungeons, NM raids, etc) : you need to keep completing each content without never being done with it (which is the worst in the current design, it s like an infinite grind, when usually in older MMORPG once you got the item you needed on any particular piece of content you didn't need to run it again).

This isn't a P2W Game. You either are good enough to earn your reward, or you are not. I am glad that there is no way for baddies to grind out the best rewards, since most baddies seem to have no problem playing for hours everyday, but can't seem to raid even normal difficulty, or normal mythic dung's.

You do understand that the current system is meant to heavily favor the casual players, do you ?

[Raakel]

What loot system do you prefer?

#1 - spend X hours => get a guaranteed upgrade (I like to work towards a certain goal)
#2 - spend X hours => get nothing/and,or things you don't need/get lucky (I like RNG, gambling)

[Xykotic]

No matter what they do, someone will always be unhappy.

Nobody asked for the current setup. Having some way of being able to put down x amount of work to get y item is what we would have all preferred. Because now, its entirely up to luck.

Not to mention, even if you still get a legendary, its probably not the one you want. I'd get a massive dps boost from my optimal legendary, but the "worst" one would literally be worse than my current 840-860 gear.

You might want to just marginalize the issue, but people will burn out and leave the game over this. Atleast half my guild agrees legendaries is looking like the worst idea brought by Legion, atleast now, when getting the right legendary could mean such a massive difference in dps/hps/survivability.