Exorsus warlocks

[Segus1992]

Apologies for coming to the forums to gain info to enable me to play better...
And fyi I'd much prefer the game to incorporate difficult rotations in order to achieve the best results.
Thanks for your input...

My point wasn't that you suck per se, but the fact that you thought that spamming Immolate is what you're supposed to do is the reason Blizzard is dumbing down the game. That doesn't mean they're making it easier at a high level (but that's one of the results) but that they're trying to make the entry level easier.

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How high have you pushed? Because bosses will wipe you plenty on 10+. Though trash being generally scarier than bosses isn't exactly new, this was also true in CM's. You can't really expect bosses to be as scary as trash when you can continue to pull more and more trash up to your limit whereas bosses are by themselves.
@Tweetster Word of advice, just ignore the assholes and don't respond to them.

Ignoring assholes is why people suck. The fact that he responded to me is proof that he at least tries to improve and doesn't shove his head in the sand.

[Deleted]

20 People and no warlock?

This is telling.

Blizzar where u at we Need buffs. hurry my raid is on friday

[Deleted]

It is not a personal attack to tell you you are wrong and do not know what you are talking about if you say things that prove that on your own. Warlocks are not awful in raids and they do not lack versatility for Mythic+. You saying that is an indication that you do not fully understand how to utilize your Warlock.

This is my Warlock's Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...medeezy/simple
And here are my logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...1624749/latest

And it isn't a requirement now. You can do any single target fight as Destro and do enough to get the kill and you can do any AoE fight as Demo and do enough to get the kill. But if you want to play optimally, spec swapping is not a new concept.

I refrain to make posts on whine posts but seeing your evidence, I really had to step in and say a few words.
You are the best geared dps in your raiding team and you have the BiS legendary for demonology and you are supposedly the 2nd best class according to sims for a fight like the one you have posted and you came 8th with 50k dps difference with the top dpser. If that's the definition of being great in raids, I don't think what I can say and I lay my case.

And also posters who have not played the class, telling you to swap specs for every fight, please go back to your own forums and read them instead as you know nothing about being a warlock and how it feels to play a broken class. We cannot invest in 2/3 specs with the artifact power barrier not until we are well progressed into the expansion. Besides even switching specs is not enough for certain fights, you might need to respec your talents which is not allowed in mythic+ dungeons.

That's not the definition of "being in a good place" for me. My worries is since Blizzard throw us some numbers on all spells to basically shut the community up, I don't think they are planning to do anything about to fix the class mechanics or numbers.

[Amonthar]

It is not a personal attack to tell you you are wrong and do not know what you are talking about if you say things that prove that on your own. Warlocks are not awful in raids and they do not lack versatility for Mythic+. You saying that is an indication that you do not fully understand how to utilize your Warlock.

This is my Warlock's Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...medeezy/simple
And here are my logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...1624749/latest



And it isn't a requirement now. You can do any single target fight as Destro and do enough to get the kill and you can do any AoE fight as Demo and do enough to get the kill. But if you want to play optimally, spec swapping is not a new concept.

I was messing with my gear last night and am sitting at 22% crit, 29% haste and 51% mastery. What are targets to shoot for? I haven't had a chance to play around with it but I increased my mastery to try and test it out.

This is one thing I don't see discussed much other than shoot for 30% haste and look elsewhere. I am asking because I see you have 34% haste.

[Gaidax]

The concensus seems to be to get to around 30% and then branch out to other stats.

I tried simming my character with various haste levels and it starts being really wonky close or after 30% haste, various stats pulling ahead depending on encounter type you sim and I just could not see the pattern.

Sometimes Haste still best, sometimes suddenly Versatility becomes best or Crit.

Just really hard to tell, basically I am going by ~30% haste and then whatever really.

[Amonthar]

Thanks for the reply. I hit ilvl 846 and may start trying mythic dungeons finally.

I know I have been able to do them. I just want to be the best I can be for the sake of the group. Plus, I have been doing all world quests I can for reputation and leveling another character.

[Jondar]

There is an issue when other classes don;t have to swap. Why should warlocks have to swap specs just to be adequate? Sure, spec swapping is not new, but Legion takes it to new heights - particularly for warlocks, because our different specs feel like they are so boxed in.

Why is talent swapping an issue? You don't HAVE to, but if you want to play optimally then you do it. But make no mistake about it, you can certainly find one build that works for everything and use it well enough. That said, there is not a problem with spec/talent swapping at all. And in the long run, you'll be happy about it because playing one build gets very, very redundant.

Affliction, for example, it is just bad at most things except trash AOE - where it is exceptional, but only if you talent for it.

I'm not really going to defend the state of Affliction.

No class should have to swap specs just to be competetive

Why not?

To expect a player to level up three arifacts and to learn three different specs which are quite different just to be competetive against people in other classes is absurd. It might be fine for elite players who have the time and the skill for that, but most people want to stick to a playstyle they actually enjoy and it's not unreasonable for them to expect to be competetive whilst they are doing that.

You don't have to level up three artifacts and you don't have to get more than two gold traits to have your artifact be competitive. For instance, the Demo artifact you need about 19 points in it to get the most out of the single target traits. Since Demo will be played for mostly single target, you can certainly make do with that amount invested in it. 19 points is not a huge investment.

I don;t see any other class swapping between specs or having to carry armfuls of tomes

Tomes? We have a summoning portal

And the point the poster you're replying to was this: warlocks tend to lack an all-rounder build, particularly affliction and demonology. That is obvous when you see a fire mage taking Living Bomb vs an affliction warlock taking Sow the Seeds for example.

The all around destro build has been listed numerous times and it puts up great numbers across the board. Demonology can run implosion and do great AoE and still maintain very high single target. Affliction is unfortunately stuck being an AoE spec.

Fire mages, hunters, probably our most directly comparable classes, have good all-rounder builds. As an afflock I can be supreme at trash aoe in Mythic+ - but either of those can do pretty good aoe but also much better boss damage.

For that reason alone, they ar emore attractive to groups - all-rounders always will be.

So what? Some classes are always better than others. This will change over the course of the expansion like it always does. You will still get into groups. You will still be able to raid. And you will still be able to progress your character. There aren't enough Mages and Hunters trying to queue for the same groups as you, or apping to the same teams as you, to prevent that.

Swapping specs and talents was bad enough - it indicates a design failure, it makes people use playstyles they don't like, it ramps up the learning and skill curves - but that was before we got artifacts and the talent change cost (not that you can change talents in + anyway)

Playing a warlock just feels like you are constantly dragging around an anchor chained to your ankles

No it doesn't and you don't ever need to change talents in Mythic+

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I refrain to make posts on whine posts but seeing your evidence, I really had to step in and say a few words.
You are the best geared dps in your raiding team and you have the BiS legendary for demonology and you are supposedly the 2nd best class according to sims for a fight like the one you have posted and you came 8th with 50k dps difference with the top dpser. If that's the definition of being great in raids, I don't think what I can say and I lay my case.

Are you talking my Demonology parse on M Nyth? Because last night was literally my first time playing Demonology in raid this expansion. I messed up my rotation so many times I thought I was going to be doing dead last DPS. That's the definition of 'room to grow.'

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First week had bolstering which is enough to prevent that. This week is teeming skittish fortified, which is again enough to make trash a massive issue.

Hymdall I haven't had much a problem with, melandrus and shade of xavius on the other hand. The dps check on melandrus gets absolutely ridiculous, and xavius will literally just 1shot people with unavoidable dmg where you NEED a major cd to survive.

Last week was also tyrannical, which made a lot of bosses absolutely ridiculous. I thankfully didn't get melandrus with that which is good because I'm fairly confident he'd be practically unkillable with the health and dmg bump at current gear levels.

We ran Maw of Souls under Tyrannical and the other modifiers last week; Helya was a bitch because of the HP boost, and the first boss hit like a truck. I think we doubled the timer or something. But, to everyone in the world's surprise.. it was still doable with a Warlock that didn't change talents or spec swap once!

[Baconeggcheese]

We ran Maw of Souls under Tyrannical and the other modifiers last week; Helya was a bitch because of the HP boost, and the first boss hit like a truck. I think we doubled the timer or something. But, to everyone in the world's surprise.. it was still doable with a Warlock that didn't change talents or spec swap once!

Yeah I had a similar experience, tank got 1shot by the first boss on the first pull, and helya just took forever to die.

[Lucrece]

How high have you pushed? Because bosses will wipe you plenty on 10+. Though trash being generally scarier than bosses isn't exactly new, this was also true in CM's. You can't really expect bosses to be as scary as trash when you can continue to pull more and more trash up to your limit whereas bosses are by themselves.
@Tweetster Word of advice, just ignore the assholes and don't respond to them.

Highest is 10.

I've done CM before, and trash was scary only because of higher pulls, which frankly you didn't even need for medals, just records.

In legion, a single normal trash pack from vault of the warden or the scorpion/boulderback pull from neltharion's will hit me harder than most bosses.

Ymiron's shadow slash can be nasty at 10+, hits for around 2.4 million damage unmitigated, but that's the single damage spike on an interval you have to worry about with little else causing you trouble. I suppose Gerdo might get nasty as well since I haven't gotten to him at that high a scale.

[Dwill]

Ignoring assholes is why people suck.

This so not true.

[Segus1992]

This so not true.

It depends on the definition. If "ignoring assholes" means ignoring everyone who tells you to improve, then yes. If it's actually ignoring assholes, like actual assholes and not "mean people", then no.

[Lucrece]

It depends on the definition. If "ignoring assholes" means ignoring everyone who tells you to improve, then yes. If it's actually ignoring assholes, like actual assholes and not "mean people", then no.

Then there's also people having a modicum of social intelligence to understand that correcting pugs in performance is an idiotic waste of time and completely inappropriate in context.

It's usually much better to teach people when they're receptive to receiving knowledge.

[Deleted]

No it doesn't and you don't ever need to change talents in Mythic+

For your information; you cannot change talents or specs once you have begun a Mythic+ dungeon. Even if you use a Tome of the Tranquil Mind, you will be unable to respec. Summons also won't work in a mythic+ dungeon.So good luck finding a spec/talent to run +9 and +10 dungeons without gimping your group.

[Segus1992]

Then there's also people having a modicum of social intelligence to understand that correcting pugs in performance is an idiotic waste of time and completely inappropriate in context.

It's usually much better to teach people when they're receptive to receiving knowledge.

This is exactly what I mean, and you're basically suggesting something akin to a safe space. "Reach out to them when they're susceptible to being taught" - nobody (at least a very small amount of people) is going to do that. Ignoring the most common source of feedback (if you're bad) is what's idiotic.

[Lucrece]

This is exactly what I mean, and you're basically suggesting something akin to a safe space. "Reach out to them when they're susceptible to being taught" - nobody (at least a very small amount of people) is going to do that. Ignoring the most common source of feedback (if you're bad) is what's idiotic.

Stupid people aren't going to change because you're telling them they're bad in a pug. They'll just insult you and kick you.

And please drop this pathetic safe space bullshit. It's called common sense, if you were having some fun with a group of friends playing heroes of the storm and someone berated you for lane distribution or doing x camp instead of y you'd probably mute them or tell them to fuck off.

Unsolicited advise is way older than this "safe space" idea you're accusing people of.

People play games for different reasons. Some to be competitive and "win", others to just pass the time.

[Jondar]

Even people on these forums get defensive every time you told them that rotational issues are the reason for their low DPS and not the class's balance/tuning. I get told I'm insulting someone all the time when I tell them they simply aren't playing the class properly. But it's true, and it isn't just people in pugs. I think that people are too quick to start calling people assholes and what not, so under that context the whole "ignoring assholes is why people suck" kind of makes sense - not because assholes are better than other people, but because a lot of people are dismissed and quickly labelled as assholes/trolls/etc when they suggest that it isn't the class's fault that people are doing poorly in their groups.

[Tya]

Fair enough. Affli IS one of the strongest specs according to logs though so go and play that.

Are you having a laugh or have you just not spent 5 seconds researching the nonsense you're saying? Affliction is fighting with frost mage for most garbage spec.

[mistahwilshire]

Are you having a laugh or have you just not spent 5 seconds researching the nonsense you're saying? Affliction is fighting with frost mage for most garbage spec.

No, that's Fury.

[Baconeggcheese]

So good luck finding a spec/talent to run +9 and +10 dungeons without gimping your group.

Did at least a +10 every week since mythic+ has been out just to boost my chest, did an 11 last week. Seems I have said "good luck".

[Jondar]

.So good luck finding a spec/talent to run +9 and +10 dungeons without gimping your group.

Please go away.

Infracted - Woz