Protection legion Discussion

[Brewschii]

More than lack of haste, the clunkiness feeling in low damage content is lack of rage because RFDT is very low. Haste oriented gear makes it better by improving our main source of rage generation but the SS buff really puts SS in a good place in the rotation, it feels meaningful to press once again and push haste higher in the stats priority even for high damage content.

To put it another way 30% haste with 10 rage SS feels clunkier than a 10% haste with 20 rage SS for me.

But then I guess the clunkiness feeling for many people came from having to wait so much to press FR and IP coming from the dynamic weaving we had before the vengeance change.

I guess this is all subjective, which makes sense when we're talking about what feels clunky. To me the clunkiness stems from the long CDs. In content that isn't threatening, I don't need rage, so the lack of rage doesn't seem problematic to me. The issue is waiting around to press Shield Slam or Revenge, which is a Haste problem.

[Mechonics]

I guess this is all subjective, which makes sense when we're talking about what feels clunky. To me the clunkiness stems from the long CDs. In content that isn't threatening, I don't need rage, so the lack of rage doesn't seem problematic to me. The issue is waiting around to press Shield Slam or Revenge, which is a Haste problem.

Most if the problem is that on lower difficulties warriors werent getting hit hard enough to generate enough rage to function properly. That isnt necessarily the case on mythic where your rage bar is very active allowing you to press more buttons at a higher frequency. I think they could have left SS rage at 15 and just changed the RFDT math so that at every level of difficulty youre playing the same. What they changed was that at lower difficulties you now have more rage from your own abilities since the boss isnt giving you enough and at higher difficultiies theyre making it so youre having to work harder to maximize the over abundance of rage from the boss actually crushing your skull in, in order to stay alive.

At least thats how i see things and how it feels.

[Vestig3]

There is dec something off about ignore pain right now as my tooltip says i should get a 895k shield but only get 778k at 60 rage and i know the tooltip isnt the exact amount you receive but this is 120k im not getting.

[Hashcrypt]

There is dec something off about ignore pain right now as my tooltip says i should get a 895k shield but only get 778k at 60 rage and i know the tooltip isnt the exact amount you receive but this is 120k im not getting.

You only ignore 90% of that number on tooltip.

I still don't see the point of the IP nerfs honestly. Who did this benefit? Who wins? The only people that are affected by this change are the healers that now must deal with squishy warrior tanks. I mean was that the goal? To make life for healers harder?

Bears and Paladins were already on par with wars pre-nerf. Shield of the Righteous was as good as pre-nerf IP, and will continue to scale throughout the whole expansion. Bears have incredible mitigation, the largest health pool, a bevy of DR cooldowns, and of course increase the HPS of any healer responsbile for keeping them alive.

Meanwhile, Wars had IP....and that's it. Rather than nerfing per cast IP, they should've just adjusted the amount of IP that could be stacked like the notes originally indicated.

Oh well, the whiners won. Now m+/raids are harder for healers and any group that may fail due to wars being too squishy. Pretty cool ey? I can def see the benefits of this...totally.

[Anuibus]

There is dec something off about ignore pain right now as my tooltip says i should get a 895k shield but only get 778k at 60 rage and i know the tooltip isnt the exact amount you receive but this is 120k im not getting.

The tooltip on the action bar and the buff tooltip both list the amount you will absorb 90% of, not the total damage your ignore pain will absorb.

[potis]

You only ignore 90% of that number on tooltip.

I still don't see the point of the IP nerfs honestly. Who did this benefit? Who wins? The only people that are affected by this change are the healers that now must deal with squishy warrior tanks. I mean was that the goal? To make life for healers harder?

Bears and Paladins were already on par with wars pre-nerf. Shield of the Righteous was as good as pre-nerf IP, and will continue to scale throughout the whole expansion. Bears have incredible mitigation, the largest health pool, a bevy of DR cooldowns, and of course increase the HPS of any healer responsbile for keeping them alive.

Meanwhile, Wars had IP....and that's it. Rather than nerfing per cast IP, they should've just adjusted the amount of IP that could be stacked like the notes originally indicated.

Oh well, the whiners won. Now m+/raids are harder for healers and any group that may fail due to wars being too squishy. Pretty cool ey? I can def see the benefits of this...totally.

Stop the over dramatic crap, learn to keep Shield Block up.

Its sad to see so many posts because all you had to do was press IP and sit back, now you actually have to not fuck up.

Played all the tanks in pre-patch to check the changes, it was obvious from then how things where gonna go, every tank was losing Health and mitigating it/healing it after, and the warrior never went below 95%, ever, anywhere, it was obvious from then how things were gonna go, and it was expected.

Anyone who didnt expect things to get balanced, is delusional.

Been maining my Warrior for 12 years, not gonna change class over balancing patches, learn to adapt, in this case, keep your god damn Shield Block up.

Bear dudu was always better than us in mitigation from the start, they will scale with the expansion, we will need fixing again, deal with it.

It disgusts me how every class simply does not cry for balance, but wants to "be better than the other person".

I dont want to get cancer when i play my alts because some retards want their <Insert tank here> to be OP, while other tanks are balanced.

[Hashcrypt]

Stop the over dramatic crap, learn to keep Shield Block up.

Its sad to see so many posts because all you had to do was press IP and sit back, now you actually have to not fuck up.

Played all the tanks in pre-patch, it was obvious from then how things where gonna go, every tank was losing Health and mitigating it/healing it after, and the warrior never went below 95%, ever, anywhere, it was obvious from then how things were gonna go, and it was expected.

Anyone who didnt expect things to get balanced, is delusional.

Been maining my Warrior for 12 years, not gonna change class over balancing patches, learn to adapt, in this case, keep your god damn Shield Block up.

Bear dudu was always better than us in mitigation from the start, they will scale with the expansion, we will need fixing again, deal with it.

It disgusts me how every class simply does not cry for balance, but wants to "be better than the other person".

I dont want to get cancer when i play my alts because some retards want their <Insert tank here> to be OP, while other tanks are balanced.

I'm not going to change from war due to this. I'm staying alive just fine. The only person this hurt was my healer that I run with normally. I maintain as close to 100% uptime on SB as possible, and still get chewed up.

So, if anything, this was a direct quality of life hit to my healer...nothing more. I guess that was the point?

[potis]

I'm not going to change from war due to this. I'm staying alive just fine. The only person this hurt was my healer that I run with normally. I maintain as close to 100% uptime on SB as possible, and still get chewed up.

So, if anything, this was a direct quality of life hit to my healer...nothing more. I guess that was the point?

No, now your healer has to adapt as to playing with any tank.

There are still moments where i still feel completely OP/Broken because:

1)When offtanking we can stack IP which means more uptime on it when tanking, refreshing etc, = OP.

2)With a proper BC usage and Sword and Board refresh we can still mitigate way too much damage out of nowhere, its not -ideal- cause its RNG, but its still godly.

I mean, after the HC run yesterday we went to clear normal asap cause we needed procced gear, i required no healing on Normal Ursoc from 100%-60%, where i simply answered a whisper instead of playing and my healthbar actually moved below 90% cause of bleed+ overwhelm cause the other tank fucked up.

Yes Normal is a joke but still, its a raid boss, its Ursoc, not going under 90% for 40% of his total health is disgusting, of course Shatter The Bones remembered to proc and heavens aligned and kept refreshing IP but still, RNG is bad, but at those moments, its simply broken.

[Vestig3]

The tooltip on the action bar and the buff tooltip both list the amount you will absorb 90% of, not the total damage your ignore pain will absorb.

did you even read what i said? I know that the tooltip isnt the exact amount but its more then it should be

[ReD-EyeD]

What are our priorities right now? Tanking is obviously about reactions, but I'm talking about in general cases.

Shield Block (if not up) > IP 60 > Shield Block (if up) > IP (if <3 sec) > Slam > Revenge > Devastate?

[Anuibus]

did you even read what i said? I know that the tooltip isnt the exact amount but its more then it should be

I read what you said, and chalked it up to user error.

[flzk]

do i have to change more options than switching to tank in simcraft to get the right results ?
when i sim my toon the result is: Ranking Haste > Crit > Mastery ~= Vers > Str > Sta ( for active damage taken ) ???
can't be right :P

[Aoshinran]

I am not very good at analyzing stats and stuff but I think we were OP. My healer said to me that except for mythic +4 during enrage affix, he was feeling like almost never healing me. So I guess it is normal that we get nerf. I don't think it is so bad. Anyway I still love tanking with my warrior

[Beowulfe]

What are our priorities right now? Tanking is obviously about reactions, but I'm talking about in general cases.

Shield Block (if not up) > IP 60 > Shield Block (if up) > IP (if <3 sec) > Slam > Revenge > Devastate?

Unless your Shield Slam cooldown is almost up (within a GCD for sure, maybe two), it's not worth casting Revenge over Devastate anymore.

[ReD-EyeD]

Unless your Shield Slam cooldown is almost up (within a GCD for sure, maybe two), it's not worth casting Revenge over Devastate anymore.

But what about refreshing IP or waiting only for 60 rage stacks?

[vorpalbladebb]

do i have to change more options than switching to tank in simcraft to get the right results ?
when i sim my toon the result is: Ranking Haste > Crit > Mastery ~= Vers > Str > Sta ( for active damage taken ) ???
can't be right :P

I have been doing this:

Change the "target type" drop down to "TMI Standard Boss", and change the "TMI Standard Boss" drop down to whichever difficulty level you're doing progress on. (Tier 19 Mythic, Tier 19 Heroic, etc.)

In the scaling tab, make sure scaling is enabled, and set the "scale over" dropdown to whichever tank metric you're interested in (DTPS, TMI, ETMI, etc) if you want to see graphs of your how your stats affect the metric you've chosen.

In the plots tab, enable plots, and check the stats you want to show on the graph for the metric that you chose in the "scaling" tab. If you're getting erratic scaling lines (like they're very spiky, and its hard to tell what their over all trend is), you can change the "plot step amount to something higher, which has the effect of kind of zooming out on the graph, so you can see hypothetically how larger amounts of each stat would affect your chosen metric.

Not that it will still calculate stat priorities for ALL the scaling metrics, the choice you made in the drop down just determines which scaling metric you're making pretty graphs of.

[Moggers1990]

Anyone else's IP seem to be even lower again?

After the nerf, i compared IP values with a friend and it was at 869k on the tooltip, and that's what i was getting when using it at 60 rage. Now today it was showing 780k on the tooltip, but then i also swapped 2 gems and enchants to haste instead of vers (lost 2% Vers) and it's down at 673k and again, i am getting that when using 60 rage.

Seemed to just randomly drop 100k value, and another 100k just from dropping 2% vers. I don't see how that is right?

[vorpalbladebb]

Anyone else's IP seem to be even lower again?

After the nerf, i compared IP values with a friend and it was at 869k on the tooltip, and that's what i was getting when using it at 60 rage. Now today it was showing 780k on the tooltip, but then i also swapped 2 gems and enchants to haste instead of vers (lost 2% Vers) and it's down at 673k and again, i am getting that when using 60 rage.

Seemed to just randomly drop 100k value, and another 100k just from dropping 2% vers. I don't see how that is right?

How much attack power and versatility did you have before gem/enchant change and after? You're specced indomitable as well, I assume?

[Moggers1990]

No idea the attack power before, but that wouldn't have changed. Had like 11.5% Vers before swapping gems, now 9.6%. Same talents and gear.

[vorpalbladebb]

No idea the attack power before, but that wouldn't have changed. Had like 11.5% Vers before swapping gems, now 9.6%. Same talents and gear.

Hmm, we're missing something then, because at that absorb and versatility level, dropping 2% vers should have only amounted to a ~13k-15k absorb reduction.

(If anyone would like to check my math, I'm going by: AP * 18.6 * 1+Vers% * 1.06(if 3/3 dragon skin) * 1.25(if indomitable), which should calculate the Tooltip Damage Absorb number. Then 90% of that number is the amount of actual absorb.)