[Balance] Gebuz's Balance Druid Guide (Legion PvE)

[Adramelch]

Gebuz, I think your haste breakpoints for ED are actually wrong.

For example, empLS with Starlord has a 2sec duration at 0 haste. With a 1.5s gcd that's 3.5 seconds total. In order to fit that on 3s, you need 16.67% haste (3.5/3 - 1). Same with the 2 Solar Wraths. empSW with Starlord has a 1.2 duration. So to fit 2x1.2 with a 1.5s gcd is 3.9 seconds total, ergo you need 30% haste (3.9/3 - 1).

As far as I understand you did 2.5/1.2 to calculate the cast time of empLS, but it seems that the game uses 2.5*(1-0.2).

[Kharahh]

Gebuz,

Got MUrsoc down to 10% last night on our first night on him so looking to down on next raid lockout and just want to max out my dps so looking for your 2 cents.

I have noticed you changed your guides recommended talents, but I still decided to run with FoE/AC on this first run with rather excellent results (the AC timed with the charge is great in keeping FoE rolling for example and the cleave has usually put me up to 2 or 3rd place at worst on ST damage to image).

What are your thoughts on this setup versus Inc/BotA , especially with ED in my loadout?

Also, I have a 870 Gnawed Thumb Ring - could you clarify your note on this item in your guide? My haste crit ring I currently have is roughly 20 ilvls below this one and really not sure if it is better, nor whether simc actually sims it correctly.

[Deleted]

Gebuz,

Got MUrsoc down to 10% last night on our first night on him so looking to down on next raid lockout and just want to max out my dps so looking for your 2 cents.

I have noticed you changed your guides recommended talents, but I still decided to run with FoE/AC on this first run with rather excellent results (the AC timed with the charge is great in keeping FoE rolling for example and the cleave has usually put me up to 2 or 3rd place at worst on ST damage to image).

What are your thoughts on this setup versus Inc/BotA , especially with ED in my loadout?

It might work if you don't have ED or OI. Primary issue is boss charges while the add is up, but if you can have good uptime it could work, especially if your guild needs the extra cleave on the add.

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Do I need to change the Simcraft Rotation, if I want to simulate with The Emerald Dreamcatcher? If yes, is the "new" rotation available somewhere?
Thanks in advance.

I believe it is in the default APL now, so you shouldn't need to change anything. It doesn't have support for the 2xSW breakpoint at the moment though, so if you want that you'll need to add this just above the first line to cast solar wrath in the actions.ed list:

actions.ed+=/solar_wrath,if=buff.solar_empowerment.stack>1&buff.the_emerald_dreamcatcher.remains>execute_time*2

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Is Twisted Wind still worth using?

I'll run some sims on trinkets again once I find the time, but it might take some time. From what I've seen I'd guess that it is still the second best you can get from raids, so if you have one with way higher Ilvl than the alternatives it is probably worth using. Anyway I'd always advise you to sim it yourself, especially if your trinkets doesn't have the same Ilvl.

[Kharahh]

Sorry, I edited my post with the following so looks like you missed it ,I have a 870 Gnawed Thumb Ring - could you clarify your note on this item in your guide? My haste crit ring I currently have is roughly 20 ilvls below this one and really not sure if it is better, nor whether simc actually sims it correctly.

On FoE on M Ursoc - I'll test out the optimal ST spec on next loadout instead of FoE. I found that the second add spawn would often be at 25% by the time FoE was off cooldown, so you may be right that the cleave may be sufficient.

[Deleted]

A few other questions regarding The Emerald Dreamcatcher.

When I'm done weaving Starsurges and my Astral Power generators, because I haven't got enough Astral power left, I have a few empowerments left.
Should I generate Astral Power and get rid of them, or should I generate AP through Moon, ignore my current empowerments and just start weaving again, after reaching 90 AP?
And if I am supposed to generate my AP through the empowerments, but get to 90-100 AP before I used all of them (because of Full Moon for example), are they then to be ignored?

Also, your priority list suggests, that Solar Wrath can be ignored while I have the Starsurgebuff active, because LS has a higher priority under those circumstances, which, to me, makes sense, as long as I can't fit two SWs in between. Other guides tell me to switch between casting SW and LS after casting a Starsurge - if that is correct, why?

Also, I feel like Stellar Flare and Astral Communion (or rather the lack of BotA) don't go that well with The Emerald Dreamcatcher, but simcraft says they are a DPS increase, what do you say?

Sorry for all these questions, but this Legendary is confusing me to no end

[Adramelch]

I tend to weave in a few SWs here and there just to keep the Sunfire up for longer. And also SS>SW is more convenient when you need to move more than the SS gcd lets you.

[Deleted]

On spending empowerments vs. casting moon spells between ED uptimes:
It depends. The moon spells are higher DPET, so using them takes priority, but sometimes you might need to drop the ED buff more often due to movement (damned fire), and you wont have the moon spells ready every time your ED drops, in which case you'll need to fill with SW/LS, preferably empowered.
For instance:
Low movement: you drop ED every ~45sec, so you always want to prio your moon spells.
High movement: you drop your ED every ~15sec so you always want to spent your empowerments and cast one or two moon spells.

Talents with ED:
ED favours BotA because you do not need the extra AsP from AC during INC. If your char is simming higher with StFl than INC while using ED, it is likely because simC still has a bug that causes Stellar Flare to do extra damage while using ED (I think it benefits from mastery somehow, but I haven't figured out why). Look at the damage per tick from Stellar Flare when using ED vs. when not using it in the sim, you'll likely find that Stellar Flare hits way harder /w ED for no apperent reason.

Casting SW vs. LS:
There is certainly some value to casting both due to dot extension from NB, however it is pretty hard to figure out what is superior. (I'd encourage you to play around with the APL and see if you can find a better rotation). I would suggest that you start casting the other filler to extend dots if and only if means you do not have to manually refresh your dots until ED drops. If you have plenty of AsP and the dot is about to expire, you're better off just spending a GCD on refreshing the dot during ED.

[Adramelch]

On an unrelated note, it seems that Stormsinger just received a pretty important stealthnerf on US. Apparently the 845 one gives 655 mastery per stack, and my 840 one gives 804 mastery per stack (I'm on EU).

[huth]

That sounds more like a bug than a nerf.

[Kharahh]

On spending empowerments vs. casting moon spells between ED uptimes:
It depends. The moon spells are higher DPET, so using them takes priority, but sometimes you might need to drop the ED buff more often due to movement (damned fire), and you wont have the moon spells ready every time your ED drops, in which case you'll need to fill with SW/LS, preferably empowered.
For instance:
Low movement: you drop ED every ~45sec, so you always want to prio your moon spells.
High movement: you drop your ED every ~15sec so you always want to spent your empowerments and cast one or two moon spells.

Talents with ED:
ED favours BotA because you do not need the extra AsP from AC during INC. If your char is simming higher with StFl than INC while using ED, it is likely because simC still has a bug that causes Stellar Flare to do extra damage while using ED (I think it benefits from mastery somehow, but I haven't figured out why). Look at the damage per tick from Stellar Flare when using ED vs. when not using it in the sim, you'll likely find that Stellar Flare hits way harder /w ED for no apperent reason.

Casting SW vs. LS:
There is certainly some value to casting both due to dot extension from NB, however it is pretty hard to figure out what is superior. (I'd encourage you to play around with the APL and see if you can find a better rotation). I would suggest that you start casting the other filler to extend dots if and only if means you do not have to manually refresh your dots until ED drops. If you have plenty of AsP and the dot is about to expire, you're better off just spending a GCD on refreshing the dot during ED.

Few confirmations on what Gebuz has said - i totally agree on AC not aligning well with ED as with Inc as I have far too much AsP to make use of it in a sustain encounter.

It is however incredible (I feel) for Nythendra mind controls or pvp burst (@100 AsP its 7SS == x3 SS > AC > x4SS) and has worked rather well for me on high movement fights such as M Ursoc when timing FoE on add during a charge (where you cannot actually create AsP).

I am yet to test my dps though with the BotA build on M Ursoc which I will likely do tonight to see how it goes. I just suspect given the small timeframe you have to dps the add between miasma and charge, FoE might be more beneficial for add-boss damage (and this was initially something Gebuz recommended before he changed his guide recently).

I've also been trying to follow this, but for say M Ursoc /w movement, I am finding the following rotation less stressful and smooth:

Pre-Pot+SW > NMoon > Inc > HMoon > FMoon > SS > SS > SS > (LS > SW) to clear empowerment and takes AsP to 100. By this time you will likely need to soak for Ursoc charge or move for Miasma. Then follow a priority list of SS to prevent AsP cap > Moon spells > Dots > LS/SW.

If under lust :
Pre-Pot+SW > NMoon > Inc > HMoon > FMoon > SS > SS > SS > (builds Moon & Stars) > (SW > LS) then do a SS>LS>SW weave unless about to hit 100 AsP.

This has kept me at roughly >300k sustain. Happy to hear others thoguhts on its output / playstyle as I too want to get this rotation down pat on its damage done as it does seem difficult to measure (something about overwriting empowerments also feels so perverse..) and the other benefit is that with the BotA build it keeps our Dots up to 100% very easily.

[ydraw]

RIP enemy grid, you were my best friend

[Adramelch]

That sounds more like a bug than a nerf.

It is a nerf. What I meant was that in US (post-reset) it was lower than in EU (pre-reset). The value is lowered today in EU too (20% nerf on the proc).

[Tyze]

RIP enemy grid, you were my best friend

Yeah wtf is going with that addon? Working like 20% of the time..

[Talisman]

Greetings, feathery friends.

So we cleared Heroic EN yesterday and we're getting ready for Mythic. I was wondering if you could have a look at my logs to drill them. I know I am supposed to be doing much better DPS, so I need to understand what I am doing wrong. I seem to have "evil tree" covered (before dying), but I am off balance on the rest of the encounters. Now, I haven't had much practice to be honest, but this shouldn't be relevant given that I have a legendary (shitty one though) and good ilvl.

Gebuz, thanks a lot for the guide man. Great job, helped a lot. If you can find the time to go through my logs, I'd greatly appreciate any quick tips you might have.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ummary&fight=2

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...njahr/advanced (Eirenjahr - Turalyon)

Thanks a lot, guys!

PS: if there is another thread for this, let me know I'd happily post there.

[Deleted]

Greetings, feathery friends.

So we cleared Heroic EN yesterday and we're getting ready for Mythic. I was wondering if you could have a look at my logs to drill them. I know I am supposed to be doing much better DPS, so I need to understand what I am doing wrong. I seem to have "evil tree" covered (before dying), but I am off balance on the rest of the encounters. Now, I haven't had much practice to be honest, but this shouldn't be relevant given that I have a legendary (shitty one though) and good ilvl.

Gebuz, thanks a lot for the guide man. Great job, helped a lot. If you can find the time to go through my logs, I'd greatly appreciate any quick tips you might have.

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ummary&fight=2

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...njahr/advanced (Eirenjahr - Turalyon)

Thanks a lot, guys!

PS: if there is another thread for this, let me know I'd happily post there.

I'm afraid I don't have the time to go through your logs, but you might find this guide helpful:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...OdGP6Y/preview

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Guide is updated with kill videos of everything except Cenarius (and 2 phase Il'gynoth). Will add those two when I kill them as balance :P

[Deleted]

Hi again, i'm stuck on ursoc. After simming myself multiple times, i figured out that INC > StFl, even with Oneth intuition. Fight lenght set to 5mn so it's same as ursoc.
I did like 30 try on Ursoc, Oneth is extremely dependent on luck, some pull it procs like crazy, sometime it doesn't. Now i don't know what should i pick...

[Deleted]

Hi again, i'm stuck on ursoc. After simming myself multiple times, i figured out that INC > StFl, even with Oneth intuition. Fight lenght set to 5mn so it's same as ursoc.
I did like 30 try on Ursoc, Oneth is extremely dependent on luck, some pull it procs like crazy, sometime it doesn't. Now i don't know what should i pick...

(assuming you're talking about mythic Ursoc) I would still go with Stellar Flare, keep in mind that you can pretty much get a full duration dot on every add spawn, doing a pure single target sim wont reflect what is actually the best choice for Ursoc Mythic.

[Talisman]

I'm afraid I don't have the time to go through your logs, but you might find this guide helpful:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...OdGP6Y/preview

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Guide is updated with kill videos of everything except Cenarius (and 2 phase Il'gynoth). Will add those two when I kill them as balance :P

Thanks for the tip...will go through the guide.

[Drurca]

Hey man, sorry to bother you again. I've been trying to optimize my gear and started running some sims, for both patchwork and light movement i get Int > Vers > Crit > Mastery > Haste and i only get Haste > Int > Vers > Crit > Mastery when doing heavy movement. So i went to check your armory and it looks like you dropped your haste to 24% or so, and you have more than 50% mastery.
After 24% haste is it better to start looking at other stats? I noticed that if i go over 25% haste (on heavy movement) i get that haste is my worst stat as well.
Should i go light movement or heavy movement for mythic raiding when doing sims?

us.battle.net wow/en/character/illidan/Nahairne/simple

Once again thanks for all the help man.

[Deleted]

Should i go light movement or heavy movement for mythic raiding when doing sims?

Ideally you want to sim something as close as possible to the encounter that you want to optimize your gear for. There is no one sim that will give you what is best for all situations.

Don't pay my gear any mind, I'm using the best gear I have available, it just so happens that it has a lot of mastery on it.