Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[MyndZero]

Curious which trinkets you guys would use of out of these four I have currently.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=137338/s...onus=1507:3410
http://www.wowhead.com/item=138225/p...onus=1497:1805
http://www.wowhead.com/item=137362/p...onus=1507:3412
http://www.wowhead.com/item=137440/s...onus=1497:1727

[Resurgo]

never use demon spikes on bleed, keep them for when you tank the actual boss (so you can have 100% uptime when the boss is actually hitting you)

you'll take more overall damage, but be a lot less spiky

I keep feeling like Feed the Demon is a trap talent. (Or maybe I'm missing something) but I wouldn't say I'm highly stacked on haste, but my cooldown for Demon Spikes now sits at 12.7 seconds per the tooltip.

Use Demon Spikes for 6 seconds, activate charge #2 and I really only have a .7 second gap in coverage before the first one is cycling back. Why talent that over Soul Rend?

[Tech614]

I keep feeling like Feed the Demon is a trap talent. (Or maybe I'm missing something) but I wouldn't say I'm highly stacked on haste, but my cooldown for Demon Spikes now sits at 12.7 seconds per the tooltip.

Use Demon Spikes for 6 seconds, activate charge #2 and I really only have a .7 second gap in coverage before the first one is cycling back. Why talent that over Soul Rend?

It has always been a trap talent, especially without comboing fracture with it. Without Soul Rend, Meta is one of the worst tank CDs in the game. With it, it's one of the best. It's a no brainer talent IMO.

[Maethorr]

I keep feeling like Feed the Demon is a trap talent. (Or maybe I'm missing something) but I wouldn't say I'm highly stacked on haste, but my cooldown for Demon Spikes now sits at 12.7 seconds per the tooltip.

Use Demon Spikes for 6 seconds, activate charge #2 and I really only have a .7 second gap in coverage before the first one is cycling back. Why talent that over Soul Rend?

You do know that feed the demon did not help at all for that, everyone has that for the first 3 uses of demon spikes because of how the cooldown is.

To help people understand a bit here is some math.

You literally only get about 1 extra demon spike out of a full minute of gameplay with feed the demon. To put this in perspective with no haste you already are going to get 4 demon spikes in a minute. It pretty much gives you an uptime of 6 seconds of 40% damage reduction every minute. On the other hand the competition gives you 5 seconds of 50% leech a minute which just about equals to the demon spikes. Then on top of that it makes your metamorphosis a 15 second can not die button, on top of making the level 100 death save talent much much better.

Honestly it is the fact that it makes metamorphosis a defensive cooldown that makes it so good. The main problem with demon hunters is we lack in the defensive cooldown department so making metamorphosis a strong defensive cooldown vs just a small cooldown is huge. If we had better defensive cooldowns the value of feed the demon would likely be higher.

[noepeen]

How do people say Soul Rending makes you pretty much invulnerable during Meta?
Especially in Raids, even if you SHOULD do 200k Dps during that window, it only heals you for 1.5 million over 15 seconds.
On proccs is absolutely nothing,. you probably just spent most of you rage on Soul Cleave anyway, so you probably won't do nearly that amount of dps.
Let it be 300k heal over 5 seconds every procc.
In a raiding environment, how is that gonna be better than one more DS every minute

In mythic dungeons, it's another topic, but there it depends on so many more factors (amount of targets, fallout interaction with many targets,
you basically can get 2 DS more per pack, but you lose burning alive, etc etc)
I feel like Soul Rending is the real trap talent in this row if you look at how little it actually does.

Edit:

It has always been a trap talent, especially without comboing fracture with it. Without Soul Rend, Meta is one of the worst tank CDs in the game. With it, it's one of the best. It's a no brainer talent IMO.

Would you mind explaining how to combo Feed the Demon with Fracture, please?

[Delimit]

How do people say Soul Rending makes you pretty much invulnerable during Meta?
Especially in Raids, even if you SHOULD do 200k Dps during that window, it only heals you for 1.5 million over 15 seconds.
On proccs is absolutely nothing,. you probably just spent most of you rage on Soul Cleave anyway, so you probably won't do nearly that amount of dps.
Let it be 300k heal over 5 seconds every procc.
In a raiding environment, how is that gonna be better than one more DS every minute

In mythic dungeons, it's another topic, but there it depends on so many more factors (amount of targets, fallout interaction with many targets,
you basically can get 2 DS more per pack, but you lose burning alive, etc etc)
I feel like Soul Rending is the real trap talent in this row if you look at how little it actually does.

Edit:

Would you mind explaining how to combo Feed the Demon with Fracture, please?

15 seconds of Meta (Doing 400k+ HPS):


Being able to survive through things that would otherwise kill you due to being able to pump 2-3m of healing into yourself over 15 seconds, is pretty valuable, especially when it's coming from a cheat death proc.

Previously Fracture and FTD were on different tiers and could be taken together to utilize the obvious synergy.

[Strawberry]

I'm another one of those who dislike Soul Rending. It does feel like a trap talent.
It's basically only useful in 2 scenarios:

1) When you pop a 3 minute cd skill.
2) When you deliberately want to die to proc it (bad idea).

The random proc is that, RNG. You probably won't have it up when you actually need it. Besides, in raids, where you have dedicated healing, absorbing/lowering damage is way more important than self heal.
Guess why everyone prefer bears and warriors as tanks. Because they have insane leech? Nah.

[Cynikaly]

I'm another one of those who dislike Soul Rending. It does feel like a trap talent.
It's basically only useful in 2 scenarios:

1) When you pop a 3 minute cd skill.
2) When you deliberately want to die to proc it (bad idea).

The random proc is that, RNG. You probably won't have it up when you actually need it. Besides, in raids, where you have dedicated healing, absorbing/lowering damage is way more important than self heal.
Guess why everyone prefer bears and warriors as tanks. Because they have insane leech? Nah.

That is also wrong though. You didn't factor in the random META procs (artifact weapon trait) from picking up souls or consuming them via soul cleave. Essentially you're more in META, especially if you also factor in soul carver which makes a proc at least once per minute highly likely.

[Deleted]

I keep feeling like Feed the Demon is a trap talent. (Or maybe I'm missing something) but I wouldn't say I'm highly stacked on haste, but my cooldown for Demon Spikes now sits at 12.7 seconds per the tooltip.

Use Demon Spikes for 6 seconds, activate charge #2 and I really only have a .7 second gap in coverage before the first one is cycling back. Why talent that over Soul Rend?

I dunno, I don't have that talented

I don't think it has many uses outside of consistent AoE with fallout (because then you get buttloads of shards), if it could be comboed with fracture it'd be a good alternative but right now it's just eeeh. (that being said 1 ds/min sounds a lot worse than it actually is, it's effectively +10% uptime, which shouldn't be read as a straight +10% but rather as a big reduction of the windows without dspikes, especially since you don't need anywhere near 100% uptime to cover a boss's melee attacks entirely anyway)

that being said im not a fan of soul rend either, again it's only really good on aoe (on single target it's only good if you use all other cds at the same time too like fel dev etc which means you'd probably survive anyway) both talents are pretty weak imo

i actually played with fracture on ursoc lol

[Strawberry]

That is also wrong though. You didn't factor in the random META procs (artifact weapon trait) from picking up souls or consuming them via soul cleave. Essentially you're more in META, especially if you also factor in soul carver which makes a proc at least once per minute highly likely.

It's not wrong, you are not reading well. I did factor and mentioned it. It's too RNG to be useful. There's no way to have it up when you want unless you get lucky. I don't gamble in mythic raids and I don't trust luck.

[Cynikaly]

It's not wrong, you are not reading well. I did factor and mentioned it. It's too RNG to be useful. There's no way to have it up when you want unless you get lucky. I don't gamble in mythic raids and I don't trust luck.

While I don't disagree that it's random, I do disagree to leave it completely out of the calculations. It is surely better in Mythic+ dungeons than in raids, but it's still there and gives you an average increase in healing via soul rending.

[Neudgae]

It's not wrong, you are not reading well. I did factor and mentioned it. It's too RNG to be useful. There's no way to have it up when you want unless you get lucky. I don't gamble in mythic raids and I don't trust luck.

too RNG? im in meta for half of most fights and its not even the leech that helps survive in raids its the bonus heal instantly gaining and healing 45% hp is amazing

[Anahita]

Hi, I also have a trinket question. Currently, I have 850 Horn of Valor, 855 Memento of Angerboda, 855 Spontaneous Appendages, and 865 Faulty Countermeasure. I'm using Faulty Countermeasure + Memento at present, would this be the best pairing? The Spontaneous Appendages seem to do decent damage, but I don't like the passive mastery at all, and not sure about Horn >.>

[sheaebay]

too RNG? im in meta for half of most fights and its not even the leech that helps survive in raids its the bonus heal instantly gaining and healing 45% hp is amazing

I hope you are exaggerating a bit here. You are saying you are in meta for half of the raid boss? Please clarify or provide some logs if possible. That seems a bit of an exaggeration, sorry.

[Drewharymore]

Fueled by Pain procs with Soul Rending allows for more flexibility in your defensive rotation. You don't have to keep demon spikes up every time you can use it. If I get a Meta proc after a 1 mil soul cleave that puts me up to 100% hp I won't use demon spikes until that lets ends. It gives you a window. I hate that proc style of tanking but it does work well.

[redfella]

Besides, in raids, where you have dedicated healing, absorbing/lowering damage is way more important than self heal.

And you've cleared up to what bosses in Mythic? In every tight frist kill I've had to rely on my selfhealing to get through tight spots, this includes utilizing Soul Rending with Meta, Artifact proc and Last Resort.

Also, whenever I get an artifact trait proc I think "Great, I can wait X more seconds until popping next Demon Spikes."

[Tech614]

Would you mind explaining how to combo Feed the Demon with Fracture, please?

At one point in the beta they where not on the same tier and had obvious synergy and value with each other.

Both talents became trash when put on the same tier.

Sorry if my statement was confusing if you weren't around in beta to realize this.

[Munkky]

For those who do not know. Our talents are pretty shit in general, most of the discussion comes in the form of, which ones are "best" in each row. The only outliers in certain situations IMO are Soul Rending/Last Resort. Our traits are also very similar in that they are generally pretty shit.

[Strawberry]

too RNG? im in meta for half of most fights and its not even the leech that helps survive in raids its the bonus heal instantly gaining and healing 45% hp is amazing

Uh, so it's not the leech? Thanks for confirming my point.

- - - Updated - - -

And you've cleared up to what bosses in Mythic? In every tight frist kill I've had to rely on my selfhealing to get through tight spots, this includes utilizing Soul Rending with Meta, Artifact proc and Last Resort.

Also, whenever I get an artifact trait proc I think "Great, I can wait X more seconds until popping next Demon Spikes."

I'm on your realm. Not far behind your guild.

[redfella]

Didn't mean to sound hostile if you took that from my post, sorry. I was just curious since we have a lot of people here stating very weird things and knowing their experience helps make tails out of what they are going at. It's still a bit weird that you don't actually want to answer what I asked.

My findings about Mythic raids so far:

Nythendra: nothing dangeous.

Elerethe: nothing dangerous except when DPS drag some spiders to the boss and he gets the buff, generally doesn't happen unless cotank fails to pick up all adds in a timely manner. Being able to solo-soak one of the pushback debuff winds is pretty neat.

Il'Gynoth: Metamorphosis for first rotation when tanking big add & LR Metamorphosis for second round is nice, healers are dealing with raid healing there so Soul Rending let's me be pretty selfsufficient. I often forceproc LR on Il'gynoth when tanking the beam add, having two Metamorphosis' to cover both rotations there is nice imho.

Dragons: Lot's of raidhealing going on again, and if/when I have to kite the dragon away from Shades I often end up going out of healer range, and having Meta with Soulrending helps me stay safe. Grip sigil is lovely for shades.

Didn't tank Ursoc yet.

Fact is, I wouldn't ever trade that safetyline for 1-2 more Demon Spikes in the span of a minute. I find the random Meta procs with Soul Rending increase my "mitigation" uptime enough (don't need to activate DS during it), while providing a large bonus to Meta is very valuable.