I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Snuffleupagus]

The raids are still there.
The time sensitive event that was fated to disappear from the game at the end of a time period is not.
The story still exists without the legendary quest. The legendary quest is a perk for being an active sub at the point in time when it was active.
I don't know how again to explain this to you people.

WoW didn't abandon the cloak/ring line. The quest had a time and place, and that time is over. The story continues on. With or without you.

So, I do agree that gating items behind difficulties is definitely worthwhile as a means to reward players for doing harder content, but the legendary questlines have been horribly mismanaged.

In my opinion, the quest chains should remain, and the reward should be scaled back (i.e. to an Epic).

The WoD legendary chain ties together far too much of the story and also the lead into Legion that any new player in the levelling process will be wondering who Cordana is. In all honesty, one of the best things Blizzard could do for the game is:

1. Change early levelling back to Vanilla WoW storylines. Change the Cataclysm quests and streamline to cover lower level bracket span.
2. Add scenarios with levelling gear rewards for the end of each quest chains relating to an expansion or raid which cover raid content.
3. Streamline the early questing experiences to be a lot more consistent with the new quests as far as structure and narrative.

There almost needs to be a real shift in level brackets to better get the story across for new players.

1-20 Intro to race and Alliance/Horde
21-35 Molten Core, AQ, etc.
36-40 Naxxramas
41-50 Outland incursion
51-60 Outland climax
61-70 Northrend campaign
71-85 Cataclysm
86-95 Pandaria
96-100 Warlords
101-110 Legion

At the end of the day, I have played through all this content and have a decent grasp on the lore. It's part of the reason I stick around. If they want to retain new players, they need to acknowledge this.

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Slightly off-topic, but LFR isn't designed solely for the so-called "lazy" players. In fact, it's largely aimed at people like me, who have the skills but no longer the time to devote to organised, scheduled raiding.

Now, before I inevitably get called a "scrub", "filthy casual" or similar, I will say again that I've had 11.5 years of raiding whatever the highest form of content was, be that a specific raid instance, or a particular raid difficulty. The fact that I've stepped down doesn't mean that my skills have suddenly evaporated. They're still there, but sadly I can't be for organised raiding. In addition, the nature of the job I do means that my free time is never at the same time of day or week, but does generally fall within the anti-social hours.

LFR serves a vital function for players like me, who would otherwise have no raid content to look forward to at all. The fact that it's a far easier difficulty than what I'm capable of doing is a consequence I am willing to accept.

And no, unfortunately, it is not quicker to just LFG for a normal raid, most of which already have ridiculous requirements for entry, and I'm already two weeks behind most other players due to moving in with my fiancée. Starting my own group isn't an option either - if I had the time and availability to do that, I'd be raiding with my guild. LFR allows me a guaranteed dps spot in a raid that I have yet to wait more than 7 minutes to fill, even in the dead of night.

Off-topic rant over.

If it was honestly designed for people who had the skills to raid, mechanics wouldn't be next to ignorable.

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Because heroic also existed in 10 man. Ergo not the same as mythic only 20 man. Thats just for one. You cannot compare them and say mythic was around in wotlk. It simple was not.

25H became 20M
25N became 10-30H
10H became 10-30N
10N was gutted of real mechanics and turned into LFR

LFR is the way it is because of the players. It is dumbed down because unorganised content has to cater to the majority of its players. People percieve is as pretend raiding because it lacks the need to coordinate, CC, interrupt, or otherwise use class mechanics to succeed.

If you needed further indication to the skill level present in LFR, you only need to look as far as Runes. If they disabled these tomorrow, participation from actual raiders would plummet. Blizzard knows, understands, and even acknowledges this fact, which is why raiders are effectively bribed into LFR to collect runes.

[Sundreamer]

i don't see the problem here...it's a color of a skin...you can still get the other 3 if you are too lazy to get a group for normal together

[Sorrior]

It's entitlement because they made a decision about their game and you're here complaining because you feel you deserve it.
No you don't, it's gone, get over it.

Think of the cloak/ring like the scourge/legion invasion. It happened, it ended, it wont happen again. You either participate when it's available or not at all. I really don't understand the disconnect.

....you are officially an idiot. I didn't say I deserve it no o e has I am saying what reason is their to even remove it.you never once answered that question. Their was NO reason too..It was an insane decision.

If anything I am scratching my head as to why they would remove it(also note I never once questioned it till someone else brought it up and it is a very good question)

Honestly..It really DOESN'T make sense.

Buut after seeing your replies and the wording you use I have come to realize you are the type to not want anyone else who is somehow "less" then you to see or do these things.

The epitome of why wow has had sub drops why alot of people quit and quute honestly what is wrong with the game.

- - - Updated - - -

So, I do agree that gating items behind difficulties is definitely worthwhile as a means to reward players for doing harder content, but the legendary questlines have been horribly mismanaged.

In my opinion, the quest chains should remain, and the reward should be scaled back (i.e. to an Epic).

The WoD legendary chain ties together far too much of the story and also the lead into Legion that any new player in the levelling process will be wondering who Cordana is. In all honesty, one of the best things Blizzard could do for the game is:

1. Change early levelling back to Vanilla WoW storylines. Change the Cataclysm quests and streamline to cover lower level bracket span.
2. Add scenarios with levelling gear rewards for the end of each quest chains relating to an expansion or raid which cover raid content.
3. Streamline the early questing experiences to be a lot more consistent with the new quests as far as structure and narrative.

There almost needs to be a real shift in level brackets to better get the story across for new players.

1-20 Intro to race and Alliance/Horde
21-35 Molten Core, AQ, etc.
36-40 Naxxramas
41-50 Outland incursion
51-60 Outland climax
61-70 Northrend campaign
71-85 Cataclysm
86-95 Pandaria
96-100 Warlords
101-110 Legion

At the end of the day, I have played through all this content and have a decent grasp on the lore. It's part of the reason I stick around. If they want to retain new players, they need to acknowledge this.

- - - Updated - - -



If it was honestly designed for people who had the skills to raid, mechanics wouldn't be next to ignorable.

- - - Updated - - -



25H became 20M
25N became 10-30H
10H became 10-30N
10N was gutted of real mechanics and turned into LFR

LFR is the way it is because of the players. It is dumbed down because unorganised content has to cater to the majority of its players. People percieve is as pretend raiding because it lacks the need to coordinate, CC, interrupt, or otherwise use class mechanics to succeed.

If you needed further indication to the skill level present in LFR, you only need to look as far as Runes. If they disabled these tomorrow, participation from actual raiders would plummet. Blizzard knows, understands, and even acknowledges this fact, which is why raiders are effectively bribed into LFR to collect runes.

Honestly even removing the items just making them their for lore reasons could be done.

One thing I have noticed is a very strong sense that these who want to just do quests or see story stuff are entitled and either need to have been their or "git gud" when it is alot more complex then that.

I will say it again if any group here is entitled I would say it is the anti lfr crowd

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i don't see the problem here...it's a color of a skin...you can still get the other 3 if you are too lazy to get a group for normal together

But cannot use at all

[Snuffleupagus]

Honestly even removing the items just making them their for lore reasons could be done.

One thing I have noticed is a very strong sense that these who want to just do quests or see story stuff are entitled and either need to have been their or "git gud" when it is alot more complex then that.

I will say it again if any group here is entitled I would say it is the anti lfr crowd

I would have ZERO objection to LFR if they made some simple changes.

- Runes dropping from Mythic 5 mans or even other raid difficulties. Basically just not locking it to satchels and LFR.
- Make mechanics matter again. Maybe not outright killing players, but ever increasing debuffs to the point where something that would kill you instantly in N+ would kill you after getting hit twice (with obvious exceptions, like Il'gynoth room which would still be a one shot).

If they made these changes, then I can confidently state that LFR would be a non-issue to me. People looking to move to normal have some idea of mechanics again, and there is no bribe to send raiders into LFR.

A large part of the divide between LFR and normal+ is the fact that people look to try normal and get laughed at when they say "I know the fights, I've cleared LFR". And rightfully so, since most mechanics are a non-issue and therefore go unnoticed.

[Sorrior]

I would have ZERO objection to LFR if they made some simple changes.

- Runes dropping from Mythic 5 mans or even other raid difficulties. Basically just not locking it to satchels and LFR.
- Make mechanics matter again. Maybe not outright killing players, but ever increasing debuffs to the point where something that would kill you instantly in N+ would kill you after getting hit twice (with obvious exceptions, like Il'gynoth room which would still be a one shot).

If they made these changes, then I can confidently state that LFR would be a non-issue to me. People looking to move to normal have some idea of mechanics again, and there is no bribe to send raiders into LFR.

I would love those changes tbh. Amd I think runes should drop outside our anyways I do not feel it is a good design.

Difficulty wise see what ffxiv has in the DF fights with one shot kill moves or things that can use group wipes if done wrong. Shit thst goes beyond current nm raids to my knowledge and that is all queable.

This idea those who que cannot do shit us stupid(yes it is more likely to fail but still Fun) buuut then again people don't kick or drop as often in ffxiv...the communities ALOT less toxic and elitist.

[Snuffleupagus]

I would love those changes tbh. Amd I think runes should drop outside our anyways I do not feel it is a good design.

Difficulty wise see what ffxiv has in the DF fights with one shot kill moves or things that can use group wipes if done wrong. Shit thst goes beyond current nm raids to my knowledge and that is all queable.

This idea those who que cannot do shit us stupid(yes it is more likely to fail but still Fun) buuut then again people don't kick or drop as often in ffxiv...the communities ALOT less toxic and elitist.

The problem is that people are there who shouldn't be - anyone raiding N+. Most don't want to be there, but feel compelled to do so for Runes. Disregarding the first tier, the expectation from every halfway decent guild is that you maximise the performance of your character, which means flasks, pots, and runes.

Get these people out of content they don't enjoy and you'll see less of their expectations forced onto LFR.

Also, WoW has a very different skill bracket to other games, hence the relative ease for LFR and LFD. Toxicity aside, the calibre of player you'll get in WoW varies wildly. That's why the perception of LFRetard exists.

LFR should be easy. People constantly complain they don't see story, and I'm choosing to take that statement at face value. But that means less rewards.

[Snackwiches]

Reeeeeeee! Quests should auto complete themselves!

[Sorrior]

The problem is that people are there who shouldn't be - anyone raiding N+. Most don't want to be there, but feel compelled to do so for Runes. Disregarding the first tier, the expectation from every halfway decent guild is that you maximise the performance of your character, which means flasks, pots, and runes.

Get these people out of content they don't enjoy and you'll see less of their expectations forced onto LFR.

Also, WoW has a very different skill bracket to other games, hence the relative ease for LFR and LFD. Toxicity aside, the calibre of player you'll get in WoW varies wildly. That's why the perception of LFRetard exists.

LFR should be easy. People constantly complain they don't see story, and I'm choosing to take that statement at face value. But that means less rewards.

I can see that and yeah ran into that in panderia where I would go into LFR to learn or work on my class annd got groups full of fully heroic geared players not willing to red running in befire even talking about Mt ot or strategy of any kind... Was told to run with my guild wellll while I was on break my guild changed servers and faction changed I self funded everything gems enchants and yeah.

So I agree less incentivization would be a good thing.

As for difficulty overall I do still feel they can up it a fair amount. The easier raids in ffxiv(all 24 man) are decent with mechanics they did release a Facebook one but it was considered far too easy since you had to try to die one boss aside.

[bufferunderrun]

The problem is that people are there who shouldn't be - anyone raiding N+. Most don't want to be there, but feel compelled to do so for Runes. Disregarding the first tier, the expectation from every halfway decent guild is that you maximise the performance of your character, which means flasks, pots, and runes.

Get these people out of content they don't enjoy and you'll see less of their expectations forced onto LFR.

Also, WoW has a very different skill bracket to other games, hence the relative ease for LFR and LFD. Toxicity aside, the calibre of player you'll get in WoW varies wildly. That's why the perception of LFRetard exists.

LFR should be easy. People constantly complain they don't see story, and I'm choosing to take that statement at face value. But that means less rewards.

if peoples have problem with runes why don't ask blizzard to make lfr lockout be shared with normal+ ? imho peoples fear that if lfr share the same lockout even less peoples do guild/pug raid so they live in that dream that if lfr is removed everyone will join pug and guilds.

[Deleted]

Use fake achievements to join a pug, be polite, but not to polite, kill all bosses, get the real achievement, profit.

[Viconia]

Combine this with some other stuff and you could claim Blizz is actually attempting to kill the LFR scene. Didn't think they'd go for it. I read in some comments that normal is easier than ever, though, so maybe it's not so bad. There's still the issue of players demanding unreasonable ilvls, but I don't know what Blizz could do about that other than introducing ilvl caps, which would be a whole new problem in itself.

[kary]

snip

1, they don't have to give a reason for removing anything.
2, they introduced the guaranteed legendaries as a limited event.

Are you complaining that a limited event is gone? An event that was designed to be removed at the end of the expansion?
They don't have to scale back the reward and keep the quest in game because people want it to be.

But I guess concepts such as limited events are too hard to comprehend for entitled brats such as yourself. Do you go and picket stores when their sales are over, too?

[Sorrior]

1, they don't have to give a reason for removing anything.
2, they introduced the guaranteed legendaries as a limited event.

Are you complaining that a limited event is gone? An event that was designed to be removed at the end of the expansion?
They don't have to scale back the reward and keep the quest in game because people want it to be.

But I guess concepts such as limited events are too hard to comprehend for entitled brats such as yourself. Do you go and picket stores when their sales are over, too?

Limited events I get(I play ffxiv as well and they have more limited events then Wow has had in it's entire life already) and I get these are gone but a valid question is WHY remove it.

And quite frankly..more and more I feel like the entitled ones are guys like you.. I do not see anyone demanding they return the quests but I AM asking why even remove them. It really does not make much sense.

Also I am fairly certain if either if us is entitled it is players such as yourself seeing as you seen to have a very hard time with others either less skilled with less time or who want to play older content seem to piss you off so much.

[darklogrus]

1, they don't have to give a reason for removing anything.
2, they introduced the guaranteed legendaries as a limited event.

Are you complaining that a limited event is gone? An event that was designed to be removed at the end of the expansion?
They don't have to scale back the reward and keep the quest in game because people want it to be.

But I guess concepts such as limited events are too hard to comprehend for entitled brats such as yourself. Do you go and picket stores when their sales are over, too?

I wouldn't call a 3 year quest line an event. Especially one that is part of the main story line. Besides, Vanliia to Cata all still have their legendary questlines/drops intact.

[Dch48]

lol what, having a lot of adds does not make a fight complicated. There is literally 2 things that matter on the fight. 1) killing corrupter tentacles and 2) making sure blobs die at the eye. Everything else dies in time and isn't dangerous.

Hell on normal, the blobs do no damage and don't even apply the DoT so you can just face tank them at the eye. It's trivial.

The fact you're saying you guys had trouble even getting to the heart tells me you're doing it wrong. It's not about being bad players, flat out doing the fight wrong is the issue. You haven't even got to the 2nd phase 1 when corrupter tentacles spawn in africa and you're thinking it's hard? What is this?

Yes we have gotten to the second Phase one. That's where we wipe every time. We haven't been able to get into the heart the second time. The blobs do do damage on Normal as well.

[Snuffleupagus]

if peoples have problem with runes why don't ask blizzard to make lfr lockout be shared with normal+ ? imho peoples fear that if lfr share the same lockout even less peoples do guild/pug raid so they live in that dream that if lfr is removed everyone will join pug and guilds.

Because then you are crossing the line of locking people out of content. All I've suggested is remove the bribe.

If people want to go into LFR, for whatever reason, let them. But not because they feel coerced. There was lip service to this in WoD with the removal of tier, but keeping runes in nullified this.

Keep the tier, remove the runes.

Easy.

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I can see that and yeah ran into that in panderia where I would go into LFR to learn or work on my class annd got groups full of fully heroic geared players not willing to red running in befire even talking about Mt ot or strategy of any kind... Was told to run with my guild wellll while I was on break my guild changed servers and faction changed I self funded everything gems enchants and yeah.

So I agree less incentivization would be a good thing.

As for difficulty overall I do still feel they can up it a fair amount. The easier raids in ffxiv(all 24 man) are decent with mechanics they did release a Facebook one but it was considered far too easy since you had to try to die one boss aside.

FFXIV and WoW have very different playbases. It wouldn't be feasible to up the ante in LFR.

[Tharkkun]

Yes we have gotten to the second Phase one. That's where we wipe every time. We haven't been able to get into the heart the second time. The blobs do do damage on Normal as well.

If you're not killing it in one phase then try the following.

1. Save lust until you exit the heart the first time and burn down the 2 stalks that come out. My guess is those aren't dying before the deathglare and corruptors spawn.

2. Also you can kite around the giant mobile add in Phase 2 and focus only on tentacles and slimes. When you finally open the eye the second time leave your tank and a healer outside and kite the add around. (Tank it off to the side until the eye opens while swapping tanks.) This will allow your dps to focus on killing tentacles and slimes.

[kamuimac]

FFXIV and WoW have very different playbases. It wouldn't be feasible to up the ante in LFR.

first of all they have different audience because square actually monitor players behaviour - if blizzard wanted to implement that into game it owuld resoult in majority of raiders geting perma bans for toxicity -_-

[Snuffleupagus]

first of all they have different audience because square actually monitor players behaviour - if blizzard wanted to implement that into game it owuld resoult in majority of raiders geting perma bans for toxicity -_-

It's not about toxicity, it's the fact that the skill gap in WoW is much larger.

[Sansnom]

Bolded my responses, too lazy to format

Lazy. Coming from you. That is rather ... surprising.