Legion 4'th invasion

[bison91]

I see many times that mistake where it websites Warcraft lore that the latest legion invasion is third legion invasion when its actualy a 4'th. first was the 10k years ago. second was when aegwyne perished sargeras (his physical form) I think everyone forgetting that time. it was 1k years ago during aegwyns time of guardian. third was the Warcraft 3 events. and fourth time is now.

[Glormon]

Don't think that was an "invasion" in the same sense as the others. Remember that guardians have been battling Demons of the Burning Legion since its inception. The body count for Aegwynn's tale is only unique in that Sargeras appears but note no one else of seemingly high rank nor in great number in which the Legion is rampaging through towns and continents.

[Tenjen]

the avatar of sargeras (which was not even his proper physical form being summoned but more of a "Shade of Xavius" type deal) was not an invasion and cant be counted as such.

[Deleted]

still it was quite a big event.

it would definitely have been an invasion if the demons managed to establish a beachhead.

like for reference, if the invasion of normandy had failed, would it not have been an invasion at all just a failed attack?

[Glormon]

still it was quite a big event.

it would definitely have been an invasion if the demons managed to establish a beachhead.

like for reference, if the invasion of normandy had failed, would it not have been an invasion at all just a failed attack?

Again, a multitude of times demons have come to Azeroth since the War of the Ancients. The only thing unique about this one specific point in time is that Sargeras showed up and as Tenjen pointed out, not even himself just an avatar. Instigating a battle that he knew(or intended) he would lose so that he could set up the invasion of Azeroth by the Horde with the intent of weakening/conquering it for the Legion, in the same fashion that the Scourge ended up doing during the third war.

Edit: I'd be quick to point out that the Legion maintained "beachheads" or bases after they're defeat in the third war. Felwood, Winterspring, Ashenvale amongst I think one or two others. If thats all that required by definition the most recent incursion wouldn't be called an invasion then by that same standard.

[Deleted]

Again, a multitude of times demons have come to Azeroth since the War of the Ancients. The only thing unique about this one specific point in time is that Sargeras showed up and as Tenjen pointed out, not even himself just an avatar. Instigating a battle that he knew(or intended) he would lose so that he could set up the invasion of Azeroth by the Horde with the intent of weakening/conquering it for the Legion, in the same fashion that the Scourge ended up doing during the third war.

I forget in which book i read it, but the battle is described in one of them (maybe last guardian?).

It's described as thousands of dragons battling legions of demons, while aegwyn gathers power. the sun blotted out with dragons of every color kinda deal.

sure, the legion expected to be defeated. but they still commited large amounts forces and it required a massive dragon army to delay. we're not talking a couple hundred stray demons here.

and there is absolutely no doubt that if the demons were to have won that battle, it would have been an full on invasion. so again, was it just not an invasion because it was nipped in the butt?

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Edit: I'd be quick to point out that the Legion maintained "beachheads" or bases after they're defeat in the third war. Felwood, Winterspring, Ashenvale amongst I think one or two others. If thats all that required by definition the most recent incursion wouldn't be called an invasion then by that same standard.

beachhead in this context means something capable of summoning many thousands of demons per hour. or at least something that takes a strong army to shut down, in this case a dragon army.

[Magnagarde]

There was no invasion when Aegwaynn did what she did.

[Deleted]

There was no invasion when Aegwaynn did what she did.

there was no invasion BECAUSE aegwyn did what she did.

just like there was no invasion of draenor/azeroth because we killed archimonde and closed that portal in WoD.

In both cases, the legion sure tried to invade real hard.
In both cases they had a secondary plan if the primary force was repelled (sent guldan to azeroth to try again later, corrupt aegwyn to try again later)

I mean you guys really think sargeras wanted his avatar to die? no ofcourse not he wanted it to conquer the world. but in case of defeat he had plan B ready.

[Glormon]

I forget in which book i read it, but the battle is described in one of them (maybe day of the dragon?).

It's described as thousands of dragons battling legions of demons, while aegwyn gathers power. the sun blotted out with dragons of every color kinda deal.

sure, the legion expected to be defeated. but they still commited large amounts forces and it required a massive dragon army to delay. we're not talking a couple hundred stray demons here.

and there is absolutely no doubt that if the demons were to have won that battle, it would have been an invasion. so again, was it just not an invasion because it was nipped in the butt?

The events are different depending on the source. In one account she beats back the demons before Sargares himself appears to which its her and the flights just battling him, in another it refers only to the Blue dragon flight being present and getting tortured by demons but I'll contend with just in the end going with one or more Flights were present. However in that same first source I would point out that the dragons are described as "survivors" and hardly an army. I would also point to that unlike in the previous invasions there was no direct large scale invasion, no persistent portal that allowed a multitude of demons through. With exception given to the portal that appears to let Sargares through, no other portal is present which ends in a one stop shop kinda delivery with one set of forces that were delivered other than what was already present when Aegwynn arrived.

I also again point out that besides the appearance of Sargares, there have been multiple repeated events in which demons have made an appearance which is why the Council of Tirisfal and by proxy the Guardian was created for in the first place.

[Magnagarde]

there was no invasion BECAUSE aegwyn did what she did.

just like there was no invasion of draenor/azeroth because we killed archimonde and closed that portal in WoD.

In both cases, the legion sure tried to invade real hard.
In both cases they had a secondary plan if the primary force was repelled (sent guldan to azeroth to try again later, corrupt aegwyn to try again later)

Not starting an invasion and actually invading are two different things.

What you just wrote basically means that there was one attempt to start an invasion and three proper invasions.

[Deleted]

Not starting an invasion and actually invading are two different things.

What you just wrote basically means that there was one attempt to start an invasion and three proper invasions.

well yes that was my initial question.

[Glormon]

well yes that was my initial question.

Cept the answer changes the whole point of the thread. If we go by your idea then there have been multiple invasions because demons have attempted to come into azeroth and have been "nipped" before making any headway so there's more than four. Or the one Aegwynn is at doesn't count making this latest one still the third one.

Edit: multiple invasions being "more than 4"

[Magnagarde]

well yes that was my initial question.

There is difference between having a plan to start an invasion and actually starting one. There were three invasions.

The Burning Legion plans to invade Azeroth for more than ten thousands years now.

[Deleted]

The events are different depending on the source. In one account she beats back the demons before Sargares himself appears to which its her and the flights just battling him, in another it refers only to the Blue dragon flight being present and getting tortured by demons but I'll contend with just in the end going with one or more Flights were present. However in that same first source I would point out that the dragons are described as "survivors" and hardly an army. I would also point to that unlike in the previous invasions there was no direct large scale invasion, no persistent portal that allowed a multitude of demons through. With exception given to the portal that appears to let Sargares through, no other portal is present which ends in a one stop shop kinda delivery with one set of forces that were delivered other than what was already present when Aegwynn arrived.

I also again point out that besides the appearance of Sargares, there have been multiple repeated events in which demons have made an appearance which is why the Council of Tirisfal and by proxy the Guardian was created for in the first place.

yeah but the amount of power it takes to summon a avatar of sargeras isn't peanuts. it had to come from somewhere.
Similarly a lot of demons where there, so they either came there suddenly, requiring a lot of power. Or they were there unnoticed or ignored by both dragons and the guardian for along time.

Like the scale of this event is waaay of the charts compared to regular guardian business, which from the same books is stuff like a handful of mages summoning one demon and it going wrong.

If you have any examples of other bigger events that guardians took part in, to make this seem as not that big by comparison, that'd be great.

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There is difference between having a plan to start an invasion and actually starting one. There were three invasions.

The Burning Legion plans to invade Azeroth for more than ten thousands years now.

so where exactly is the line between invading and not invading?

the attack force was on azeroth.
it had enough power to summon an avatar of sargeras.
the avatar was actually summoned to azeroth.

compared to for example sunwell, a event of similar scale, where kil'jaeden never was actually summoned completely.

hmm comparing it to sunwell actually makes me lean more in the direction these scales of events are more commonplace then i thought.

[Glormon]

hmm comparing it to sunwell actually makes me lean more in the direction these scales of events are more commonplace then i thought.

Or the opening of the Dark Portal in which streams of Demons came running through for a bit till we pushed through. Not being able to actually get rid of them just, hold them off while our forces went around.

Edit: Both events fit better than yours in concept, because in every invasion except for the one in the Third War. All of them ended with the portal being closed. War of the Ancients, destroyed the well of eternity which ended that one. Sunwell, beat back Kil and prevented the sunwell from being used as a portal. In this current war the idea is that if we close the portal in the Tomb we can defeat what legion forces are already present.

Edit 2: That also would point out the problem with your earlier comment about there being something to summon these demons and Sargares. It could just have been several someones (like say, all dem crazy Satyr) to simple summon the demons present but wouldn't make it any different then the holdouts in Felwood, Ashenvale, Winterspring, Blasted Lands from doing the same thing.

If you say that there was a source that could have possible been ignored by the dragonflights -and- Aegwynn I can counter claim that it was just as simple as to be a small band that eventually summoned enough demons until they chose to attack. Not all that different then what could/can potentially be happening in the current zones.

[Aucald]

Aegwynn's fight with the Avatar of Sargeras doesn't qualify as an *invasion* to me, either. The power to summon Sargeras arose from the essence of dragons the demons were harvesting, and both the fight and the circumstances of it were known only to Aegwynn and the Dragonflights. Only a minuscule portion of the Legion's forces were present on the Broken Isles and the only noteworthy to enter the fray was the Avatar itself. The entire event was orchestrated as a feint in any case, it wasn't meant to imperil the planet (not until much later, in any case).

[Deleted]

Didn't Burning Crusade started and ended with an invasion of the burning Legion?

[Mehrunes]

If anything should count as an additional invasion it should be Quel'Danas. The Legion had a portal and established a foothold there and was summoning their leader (who already crossed, partially).

yeah but the amount of power it takes to summon a avatar of sargeras isn't peanuts. it had to come from somewhere.

so where exactly is the line between invading and not invading?

the attack force was on azeroth.
it had enough power to summon an avatar of sargeras.
the avatar was actually summoned to azeroth.

The Avatar of Sargeras wasn't summoned from Azeroth by demons or anything else. Sargeras used Jeweled Specter of Sargeras to send his Avatar from wherever he was directly to Azeroth bypassing normal summoning requirements. That's the entire reason for the Specter even existing.

Aegwynn's fight with the Avatar of Sargeras doesn't qualify as an *invasion* to me, either. The power to summon Sargeras arose from the essence of dragons the demons were harvesting, and both the fight and the circumstances of it were known only to Aegwynn and the Dragonflights. Only a minuscule portion of the Legion's forces were present on the Broken Isles and the only noteworthy to enter the fray was the Avatar itself. The entire event was orchestrated as a feint in any case, it wasn't meant to imperil the planet (not until much later, in any case).

Chronicles and Destro Artifact research notes say that it wasn't a feint. Sargeras entering Aegwynn's body was last resort after his Avatar failed. The entire attack was Sargeras realizing that portals suck and using alternate means (the Specter) to enter Azeroth himself, directly and immediately. With the goal being typical Legion stuff.

[bison91]

Aegwynn's fight with the Avatar of Sargeras doesn't qualify as an *invasion* to me, either. The power to summon Sargeras arose from the essence of dragons the demons were harvesting, and both the fight and the circumstances of it were known only to Aegwynn and the Dragonflights. Only a minuscule portion of the Legion's forces were present on the Broken Isles and the only noteworthy to enter the fray was the Avatar itself. The entire event was orchestrated as a feint in any case, it wasn't meant to imperil the planet (not until much later, in any case).

well that invasion was actualy harder then invasion that we have today...

[Deleted]

The Avatar of Sargeras' event was Sargeras' incursion on Azeroth, not a full-blown Burning Legion invasion.