The more I play my mage alt, the more annoyed I get.

[Deleted]

Warlock a 'bad dps' (read: not massively overpowered) for the first time in 10 years and the sky is falling.

Why take a warlock?

1. Healthstones
2. Battle Rezz
3. Ranged AoE stun
4. Insane survivability, 1 less person to heal
5. Range. That in itself is a reason
6. Great spread sustained cleave
7. Good single target, you just have to not be a shitter
8. Summoning stone

The fact that your raid probably already has like 3 mages, and your mythic+ group already has a mage. The fact that class stacking hasn't been in the game since 3 warlocks on Lei Shen or 10 arcane mages on Spine of Deathwing.

The fact that you're probably not even mythic raiding, meaning your spec is totally irrelevant. And even if you are, you probably aren't in a world <500 guild, where people actually care about what you play and how.

I like how you make assumptions. This is a mythic raiding/mythic+ discussion because I AM mythic raiding. Why would I care otherwise?
And even if they woudn't care how I played, I care. Every time I'm in the top 5 of the DPS meter, I actually get upset because the other players aren't pulling their weight.

And on to the points:
1. 75% worse healhpots that promote laziness
2. The worst battleress in the game that only gets used when every other user is dead (which means it's a wipe)
3. Unless you mean the infernal, you can't have 3 and 4 in the same list.
4. I kinda agree here but should be called sustainability. I'll add it to the first post.
5. Doesn't make us better than mages.
6. Mages always cleave.
7. And mages are better no matter how good you are.
8. Promotes laziness, you should be ready before raid.

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you cast ignite? impressive.

Whoops, meant to write "+" instead of "," my bad.

[themaelstorm]

I don't see why timewarp counts actually.

It is almost ensured that there will be one mage or shaman in the raid, if not more. So as a warlock, you not having it is no problem. Nor would it be a reason to pick you if you were a mage, because 1 per raid is enough.

Looking at the big picture, yes, a mage or shaman is wanted in a raid. But personally, it doesn't matter. With this comparison logic, timewarp is so effective that all dps must be mages or shaman.

Instead of having two mages with 1 functional TW it's better to have a mage and lock where lock brings in CR.
And you know what? More CR actually helps the raid while 10 TW casters mean nothing.

[Deleted]

Just give me at least 3 more things where locks are better than mages in mythic raid or mythic+ environment. Other than gateway.

Battle ress, cleave and HS/self healing. Not to forget voidy or all the other shit warlocks have, lock dmg isn't half bad, the biggest problems locks face is a LTP thing.

[Deleted]

I don't see why timewarp counts actually.

It is almost ensured that there will be one mage or shaman in the raid, if not more. So as a warlock, you not having it is no problem. Nor would it be a reason to pick you if you were a mage, because 1 per raid is enough.

Looking at the big picture, yes, a mage or shaman is wanted in a raid. But personally, it doesn't matter. With this comparison logic, timewarp is so effective that all dps must be mages or shaman.

Instead of having two mages with 1 functional TW it's better to have a mage and lock where lock brings in CR.
And you know what? More CR actually helps the raid while 10 TW casters mean nothing.

Timewarp is meaningful in M+ where you only have 5 dudes.

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And, Jesus Christ, stop saying summoning portal, healthstones and combat ress.
The former 2 promote laziness and are actually damaging to progress and the latter one never gets used because every other one is better and if the user of every other one is dead - it's a wipe anyway. You can make a case for it in M+ I guess, but even then there's someone better 99% of the time.

If you say summoning portal - I say mage portals. Those are actually better since if you need to travel between raids, they might speed up the process.

[Deleted]

Timewarp is meaningful in M+ where you only have 5 dudes.

And there are 3 classes that can cast it, and do not forget to mention the drums.

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Timewarp is meaningful in M+ where you only have 5 dudes.

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And, Jesus Christ, stop saying summoning portal, healthstones and combat ress.
The former 2 promote laziness and are actually damaging to progress and the latter one never gets used because every other one is better and if the user of every other one is dead - it's a wipe anyway. You can make a case for it in M+ I guess, but even then there's someone better 99% of the time.

So TW is usefull while it can be cast by everyone, yet a bress is not useful because it takes a bit??? LOL

[Deleted]

Pretty sure Soulstone is instant with 7.1.

It isn't. PTR datamining said it at some point, but went on PTR to check and it was still 3 sec cast. We did lose drain life for demo and destro though!

[Gaidax]

In case people STILL do not realize it yet, Healthstones are % based now and are superior to pots for tanks from a get go and for everyone else as soon as they are ~ilvl 870.

[Jondar]

It's almost as if these guys think it's impossible to just play better than the mages in their group or something. Then again, most of these whiners have it in their head that they're playing with everyone in the 99th percentile so what they link on WCL is totally, 100% relevant to their raid group and thus WARLOCKS SUCKKSXKKX!!!!!

edit:

Oh, and what do you know! A quick skim through his post history and it's another MMO-Champion "warlock" that's been complaining about the class for over two years.

Infracted - Woz

[Deleted]

And there are 3 classes that can cast it, and do not forget to mention the drums.

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So TW is usefull while it can be cast by everyone, yet a bress is not useful because it takes a bit??? LOL

Drums are worse (Funny how a consumable is worse than the class ability here, unlike health stones). Imagine TW having a 3 sec cast time for mages, but Bloodlust being instant cast. Do you think everyone would just be totally fine with that? Hell no. So 3 sec cast on lock CR is just not justifiable, and while it may not be disastrous every time you need to CR, it sure can be a pain in the ass when the tank is going down fast and you are just waving your hands around.

[Deleted]

And there are 3 classes that can cast it, and do not forget to mention the drums.

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So TW is usefull while it can be cast by everyone, yet a bress is not useful because it takes a bit??? LOL

"Drums". Stopped reading there.

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It's almost as if these guys think it's impossible to just play better than the mages in their group or something. Then again, most of these whiners have it in their head that they're playing with everyone in the 99th percentile so what they link on WCL is totally, 100% relevant to their raid group and thus WARLOCKS SUCKKSXKKX!!!!!

No. Playing better than mages is simple. But if I was a mage, I know my results would be a LOT better.

[Bridius]

Good thing you ignored the gateway, because that is an unique in-combat utility that is incredibly helpful on several encounters like Renferal etc

If there's another warlock in the raid I'm not gonna put my gateway on top of his that just causes confusion

[Deleted]

In case people STILL do not realize it yet, Healthstones are % based now and are superior to pots for tanks from a get go and for everyone else as soon as they are ~ilvl 870.

Mine seems to heal for 360195 no matter what I do. How does it work? It doesn't change at all with my HP.

[Jondar]

If there's another warlock in the raid I'm not gonna put my gateway on top of his that just causes confusion

Didn't you get the memo? There shouldn't be any Warlocks in the raid because the group could just bring a mage instead!1!!!!!

[Deleted]

Just give me at least 3 more things where locks are better than mages in mythic raid or mythic+ environment. Other than gateway.

For mythic+, Aoe Stun, Combat ress, Healthstone. CR in 5mans is very usefull, and also soulstone in some parts it lets you skip entire sections and healthstone is %hp, meaning it ll scale over potions (it allready does for some tanks). How did you figure out that potions are 75% better than healthstones? Also as demo you have a single target stun too.

For Raids. what exclusive does the mage bring to a raid? food?..yea
all your points of increased mobility, immunity etc are kind of mute, its just how the class plays. You might like it more but that doesnt make it better or worse. Also i can argue that as a warlock in raids i am allways at the bottom of dmg taken so theres that.

[Bridius]

It's almost as if these guys think it's impossible to just play better than the mages in their group or something. Then again, most of these whiners have it in their head that they're playing with everyone in the 99th percentile so what they link on WCL is totally, 100% relevant to their raid group and thus WARLOCKS SUCKKSXKKX!!!!!

You didn't even read the original post...

Have you ever even played a mage? Anything that's "fun" goes to that class. Has nothing to do with the 99th percentile that you're always obsessing over.

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Why does a fire mage have scorch if it barely does any damage? Because it's fun to use. Simple as that.

[Deleted]

For mythic+, Aoe Stun, Combat ress, Healthstone. CR in 5mans is very usefull, and also soulstone in some parts it lets you skip entire sections and healthstone is %hp, meaning it ll scale over potions (it allready does for some tanks). How did you figue out that potions are 75% better than healthstones? Also as demo you have a single target stun too.

For Raids. what exclusive does the mage bring to a raid? food?..yea
all your points of increased mobility, immunity etc are kind of mute, its just how the class plays. You might like it more but that doesnt make it better or worse. Also i can argue that as a warlock in raids i am allways at the bottom of dmg taken so theres that.

I need someone to explain to me how healthstones work, because my healthstone is healing 360195 no matter what items I have equipped.

[Jondar]

You didn't even read the original post...

Have you ever even played a mage? Anything that's "fun" goes to that class. Has nothing to do with the 99th percentile that you're always obsessing over.

Are you implying the "original post" has any "original" content in it?

It's the same old song; try to highlight all the good attributes of another class while continually shutting down the mentioning of the Warlocks good attributes in an effort to excuse their own lack of contribution to their raid group. And it's a song that this particular poster has been singing since 2014.

Some people just like to complain.

[Deleted]

For mythic+, Aoe Stun, Combat ress, Healthstone. CR in 5mans is very usefull, and also soulstone in some parts it lets you skip entire sections and healthstone is %hp, meaning it ll scale over potions (it allready does for some tanks). How did you figure out that potions are 75% better than healthstones? Also as demo you have a single target stun too.

For Raids. what exclusive does the mage bring to a raid? food?..yea
all your points of increased mobility, immunity etc are kind of mute, its just how the class plays. You might like it more but that doesnt make it better or worse. Also i can argue that as a warlock in raids i am allways at the bottom of dmg taken so theres that.

Um... I bought a potion and created a healthstone. I looked at the number of hit points healed. Umm... tadaaaah?
Single target stun that doesn't work on bosses and some trash.
"Just the way the class plays" is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard.

[Jondar]

If you cannot figure out how to contribute to your raid group as a Warlock, don't play a Warlock. Pretty simple stuff, guy. We'll see you again when we're overtuned and you all of a sudden stop caring about "fun" and utility.

[Deleted]

Are you implying the "original post" has any "original" content in it?

It's the same old song; try to highlight all the good attributes of another class while continually shutting down the mentioning of the Warlocks good attributes in an effort to excuse their own lack of contribution to their raid group. And it's a song that this particular poster has been singing since 2014.

Some people just like to complain.

I wouldn't complain if I was plaing a mage. Which has been better in almost every aspect since 2014, yes. How about you actually contribute instead of "lol whiners".