No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

I did not need flying in wod... i wont need it in legion

[-Joker-]

For the people who don't like mac and cheese because they've already tried it and don't like it, making them try a different brand before you are able to take their opinion seriously is ridiculous.

Again, no-flight has been in WoW before. The criticism has existed since WoD and continues today because little has changed. Flight is still being gated, and that's the situation. It's not a case of 'oh well maybe these people will like it if they tried it'. What many here are trying to tell you is they have tried it and are actively telling you they don't like it. Legion simply offered the exact same.

So if you don't like mac and cheese, switching the cheese isn't going to be a solution.

Sometimes it is. A white cheddar bake could be far more delicious than Kraft American. Perhaps Pepperjack is more to their liking. I have the right to ignore the opinion of those who don't even try, just as they have the right to ignore my opinions about them. I've seen plenty of people say, "I tried it, but I just can't stay subbed if (insert first world problem) doesn't change/comeback/get nerfed/etc." and respect those who at least tried.

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How do you know that? You're not even considering people who may have simply quit and unsubbed with the reason listed as "No flying sucks" and just quietly left. Do you know why there's less feedback and strife about flying in Legion? Because all the people who really cared about it left in WoD, and didn't come back when they saw the same thing happening in Legion. Do you think Blizzard really doesn't want to get those players back? What do you think Pathfinder is an attempt at?

I think only Blizz knows how many people unsubbed solely because of (insert reason), and for people to claim they have first hand knowledge of something that is not even public makes me wonder who they are trying to convince. Me... or themselves.

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snipped

Thanks for creating a thread on this. As you noted, lead designer Ion Hazzikostas mentioned in a recent interview with Polygon that we’ve decided not to allow the use of flying mounts on Draenor. There’s been a lot of debate about the pros and cons of flying over the course of this expansion—not just in the community, but in the hallways, offices, and break rooms at Blizzard—and we know it’s something everyone feels passionately about.

During Patch 6.2’s development, we continued to discuss how flight would fundamentally change the way players experience all of Draenor’s ground-based content, and carefully weighed that against the benefits flying would bring to the game. Ultimately, after much deliberation, we came to the conclusion that the world of Draenor would simply no longer provide the experience we envisioned it if we were to reintroduce flight in this expansion.

We appreciate everyone who has taken the time to weigh in on this topic. You’ve provided some great insight and feedback, and we ask that you please be respectful of one another as you continue to discuss your thoughts and experiences.

- SOURCE

Flying in Draenor is coming in Patch 6.2.1! We have a Flying Tool and Guide to Draenor Pathfinder, but in this guide we’ll be looking at what will be much easier to do in Draenor with flying. Perhaps you’ll find something you enjoyed doing in a past expansion and want to revisit, or learn something new!

- SOURCE

So the last Blue post I could find (official Blizz post from their own site) was May 22, 2015. The earliest I could find details regarding the addition of flight was August 3rd. There was an official chat with Zarhym that ran for about 440+ pages, but at no time does he mention no flight forever, but instead is spent defending the game design again conspiracy theorists, much like the ones in this thread.

I am happy to have a chat about this topic, but when you go off being smartmouthed, insulting, and baiting for a fight, I am more likely to ignore the rantings of a child (or simply an adult who acts like one). You want to keep it civil, let's keep talking. You want to fight? Try someone else.

[rebecca191]

For the people who don't like mac and cheese because they've already tried it and don't like it, making them try a different brand before you are able to take their opinion seriously is ridiculous.

Again, no-flight has been in WoW before. The criticism has existed since WoD and continues today because little has changed. Flight is still being gated, and that's the situation. It's not a case of 'oh well maybe these people will like it if they tried it'. What many here are trying to tell you is they have tried it and are actively telling you they don't like it. Legion simply offered the exact same.

So if you don't like mac and cheese, switching the cheese isn't going to be a solution.

Also don't forget, he said those who played beta don't have a valid opinion (even those who played at the end, when only minor tuning changes unrelated to travel were made going into live) because beta was free and you need to give Blizzard money, and money specifically for Legion rather than for previous WoW subscriptions and/or expac purchases, for an opinion to mean anything.

[-Joker-]

Also don't forget, he said those who played beta don't have a valid opinion (even those who played at the end, when only minor tuning changes unrelated to travel were made going into live) because beta was free and you need to give Blizzard money, and money specifically for Legion rather than for previous WoW subscriptions and/or expac purchases, for an opinion to mean anything.

And I stand by it. Consumer feedback is a response by a paying customer to the selling agent. If you are not a customer, you simply don't have relevant feedback. If you do have relevant feedback, it should be submitted to Blizz directly on their forums as requested by the Devs, not in a circular dog fight on a 3rd party fan site.

[rebecca191]

And I stand by it. Consumer feedback is a response by a paying customer to the selling agent. If you are not a customer, you simply don't have relevant feedback. If you do have relevant feedback, it should be submitted to Blizz directly on their forums as requested by the Devs, not in a circular dog fight on a 3rd party fan site.

Anyone who has ever played WoW is a customer of WoW. Do you think Blizz just says "eh, whatever, those guys aren't our customers" if players who purchased the previous expac don't buy the next one? Obviously they will care more or care less depending on how many WoW customers buy or don't buy it, but they don't just say "We don't care! Those guys aren't are customers anyway!!!!!!!"

Stop treating Legion like a completely separate product. It's just making you look stubborn and ridiculous. It's an add on to an existing product, not a new game.

[SirCowdog]

Anyone who has ever played WoW is a customer of WoW. Do you think Blizz just says "eh, whatever, those guys aren't our customers" if players who purchased the previous expac don't buy the next one? Obviously they will care more or care less depending on how many WoW customers buy or don't buy it, but they don't just say "We don't care! Those guys aren't are customers anyway!!!!!!!"

Stop treating Legion like a completely separate product. It's just making you look stubborn and ridiculous. It's an add on to an existing product, not a new game.

Exactly. This actually fits right in with Blizzard's own "cyclical player" theory. The idea that a person who's a veteran of the game can't provide valuable or reasonably well informed feedback unless they sub is nonsense.

[Mafic]

Anyone who has ever played WoW is a customer of WoW. Do you think Blizz just says "eh, whatever, those guys aren't our customers" if players who purchased the previous expac don't buy the next one? Obviously they will care more or care less depending on how many WoW customers buy or don't buy it, but they don't just say "We don't care! Those guys aren't are customers anyway!!!!!!!"

Stop treating Legion like a completely separate product. It's just making you look stubborn and ridiculous. It's an add on to an existing product, not a new game.

Legion is the second expansion in the row where a lot of WoW's base game was pruned or contracted. This is why restricting flight is felt a lot more for players and why it is the red line or breaking point for many.

This is why when they tried to push no flying forever in WoD it had the potential impact of hurting new future WoW players if they followed through with it and returning players for future expansion like Legion.

This is why the current trajectory of flight being in limbo for Legion aka "mid expansion" is also going to cause unneeded tension among the playrbase if Blizzard does not start communicating clearly. Blizzard started to improve their communication at the end of the WoD but have now retreated back to their ivory towers of tweeterdom.

Player feedback from existing and current players is vital as ex players or future potential customers. What do I tell a Final Fantasy or Tera player that could pick up the game on steam easily about how WoW has made flying very cumbersome and gated in comparison?

WoW is already very hard for new players to get into because of expansions required on top of a sub. Adding more layers of tedium doesn't convince new blood to come into the fold. I had a TERA player straight up tell me this. "TERA has flying and it is limited to an extent but at least it isn't heavily gated or outright removed like in WoW". That is not surprising as many other MMOs have balanced flight in may ways. Blizzard tries the lazy ways like removal in WoD and in Legion they are trying to make it cumbersome to even obtain flight which was once a basic feature and crown jewel of this MMO coming on the heels of the wildly popular and beloved Burning Crusade expansion.

[-Joker-]

Exactly. This actually fits right in with Blizzard's own "cyclical player" theory. The idea that a person who's a veteran of the game can't provide valuable or reasonably well informed feedback unless they sub is nonsense.

They are looking for knowledge and personal experience based on CURRENT events... not things that we already know about in TBC, Wrath, and Cata.

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New players get a boost to 100 when they purchase. Old players are already at 100 and are familiar with how things work. Lack of flight in Legion doesn't appear to be the apocalypse certain posters are making it out to be. In fact, if Blizz did release the top 10 reasons why players unsubbed during or before Legion, I am not confident that flight would even be in the top 10 answers.

[Eats Compost]

Legion is the second expansion in the row where a lot of WoW's base game was pruned or contracted. This is why restricting flight is felt a lot more for players and why it is the red line or breaking point for many.

This is why when they tried to push no flying forever in WoD it had the potential impact of hurting new future WoW players if they followed through with it and returning players for future expansion like Legion.

This is why the current trajectory of flight being in limbo for Legion aka "mid expansion" is also going to cause unneeded tension among the playrbase if Blizzard does not start communicating clearly. Blizzard started to improve their communication at the end of the WoD but have now retreated back to their ivory towers of tweeterdom.

Player feedback from existing and current players is vital as ex players or future potential customers. What do I tell a Final Fantasy or Tera player that could pick up the game on steam easily about how WoW has made flying very cumbersome and gated in comparison?

WoW is already very hard for new players to get into because of expansions required on top of a sub. Adding more layers of tedium doesn't convince new blood to come into the fold. I had a TERA player straight up tell me this. "TERA has flying and it is limited to an extent but at least it isn't heavily gated or outright removed like in WoW". That is not surprising as many other MMOs have balanced flight in may ways. Blizzard tries the lazy ways like removal in WoD and in Legion they are trying to make it cumbersome to even obtain flight which was once a basic feature and crown jewel of this MMO coming on the heels of the wildly popular and beloved Burning Crusade expansion.

The issue with communicating a date for flying being enabled is that it shouldn't be expected to have a huge impact on whether people play the game in the meantime. If Blizzard said that flying was returning in 6 months, you'd expect that to affect people's decision to play in 6 months, regardless of the forewarning. It doesn't really pay for Blizzard to somehow bank on the expectation that players would grin and bear something that they don't like for a long time just because they know when it will be over.

Outside of committing themselves to a design direction that they may not still want to go in when the time comes, what purpose does it actually serve? I can't imagine the "I will continue playing but only if flying is confirmed to be here on X date or in Y patch" audience is very big compared to the "I will play the game when flying is in it" audience. We don't even know if the latter is big, but I certainly can't imagine that the former is.

As for comparing WoW flight to other games; it depends very heavily on the mechanics of flying in each game. WoW's flying is, from a technical standpoint, swimming very fast in the air. Speaking broadly, a lot of games don't implement flying in a way that has a perfect 1:1 relationship with regular movement.

[Deleted]

I think the level cap extended to 110 was simply a ploy to make players feel like they are progressing more compared to only five levels. This was discussed before by Blizzard, but yeah I don't see how scaling makes the end game world relevant at level cap if Blizzard is just going to cut and run and go hide in instanced content and ivory tower twitter.

This is why flying is such a hot issue for players that still care about the world at level cap and do not care for much for the instanced content despite the many carrots trying to funnel players into instanced content. That is why one of the requirements for Legion patchfinder features a requirement to down Xavius.

Flying represents a rebellion for Blizzard's vision of expanding the lobby and instanced style of game play in WoW.

How does the world simply become relevant just cuz flying? If there still is no shit to do, flying aint solving "the no shit to do" part?

[Thimagryn]

Ignorance is indeed bliss, and I am quite happy to let sleeping dogs lie.

Is there anyone else, awake perhaps and without their head stuck in the sand, who would like to try to convince us that they quit solely because of no flying?

Why is it so implausible to you that people quit over no-flight? I'm pro-flight, andt I personally wouldn't quit over no flight. I equate flight to any feature that I would quit over like if Blizzard decided to remove PVP or Dungeons. Content is defined by the player, not the game.

I mean people have been absolutely vocal about any model updates just the same. While you might not quit over a few pixels, there are people out there who would. Is it so hard to believe people would quit over no-flight?

[TyrianFC]

Yes!

#simpleanswerstostupidquestions

[Zalamander]

How does the world simply become relevant just cuz flying? If there still is no shit to do, flying aint solving "the no shit to do" part?

The shit to do doesn't disappear because of flying. Flying is a shit to do as well by the way so it only adds to the world.
Also, the people who complain that there are no shit to do aren't necessarily the same one who want flying so its a bit of an irrelevant question here.

Someone already posted a good question that probably apply to many tho. at least its true for me.
Look on your map, see all them world quests? you probably could "use" most of them, but can only be arsed to do the ones you need for daily emissary anyway. How many more of them would you do if you had flying? My self probably 2-3 times as many as usual, probably all of them.
Now I don't claim there aren't anyone already doing all of them even without flying because I know there are, but most people don't have that kind of time.

If flying was in the game, right now. I would be much happier. Because it would mean I had time to do a lot more of the meaningful content I want to do while also getting more time to do other things I enjoy in my life. I would of course also be able to enjoy seeing the world from all points of views I wished and that's the major part I love with flying.
It wouldn't make me consume the "content" of the game any quicker, because even if I had flying, tomorrows daily world quests wouldn't come until tomorrow anyway.

[Deleted]

How does the world simply become relevant just cuz flying? If there still is no shit to do, flying aint solving "the no shit to do" part?

Do you know the concept of opportunity costs? With flying, many activities have their opportunity costs reduced (a.k.a. time needed to finish this activity in comparison to time needed to finish a different activity), so they suddenly become relevant while they are not without flying.

Come on, you don't need much brains to get this simple concept.

[Deleted]

The shit to do doesn't disappear because of flying. Flying is a shit to do as well by the way so it only adds to the world.
Also, the people who complain that there are no shit to do aren't necessarily the same one who want flying so its a bit of an irrelevant question here.

Someone already posted a good question that probably apply to many tho. at least its true for me.
Look on your map, see all them world quests? you probably could "use" most of them, but can only be arsed to do the ones you need for daily emissary anyway. How many more of them would you do if you had flying? My self probably 2-3 times as many as usual, probably all of them.
Now I don't claim there aren't anyone already doing all of them even without flying because I know there are, but most people don't have that kind of time.

If flying was in the game, right now. I would be much happier. Because it would mean I had time to do a lot more of the meaningful content I want to do while also getting more time to do other things I enjoy in my life. I would of course also be able to enjoy seeing the world from all points of views I wished and that's the major part I love with flying.
It wouldn't make me consume the "content" of the game any quicker, because even if I had flying, tomorrows daily world quests wouldn't come until tomorrow anyway.

Mafic has reapiditly said Legions world content being trivial. And flying will not solve that. Now he is not everybody, but the midset seemd to be equal in this thread. Hes a double egde sword, on this side he says flying would give him so much meaningfull stuff to do, and on the other he says the world content he appreciate so much is a failure and meaningless.

Most of them world quests are crap. But i get what your sayin. I would atleast do the AP qs not much more.

I would be happy with with flying to, atleast not later than 7.1.

I dont get the "looking at views" stuff, but if get ppl like other stuff.


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Do you know the concept of opportunity costs? With flying, many activities have their opportunity costs reduced (a.k.a. time needed to finish this activity in comparison to time needed to finish a different activity), so they suddenly become relevant while they are not without flying.

Come on, you don't need much brains to get this simple concept.

If its not meaningfull and rewarding b4, it isent meaningfull and rewarding when you can fly.
In other words you are lazy?

PS the last shit was uncalled for.

[Vestig3]

Welcome to World of Warcraft, the game people quit because it has no flying and move to another game only to come back because that other game is shit, welcome back to world of warcraft.

[Elim Garak]

If its not meaningfull and rewarding b4, it isent meaningfull and rewarding when you can fly.

Define meaningful and rewarding.

[SirCowdog]

They are looking for knowledge and personal experience based on CURRENT events... not things that we already know about in TBC, Wrath, and Cata.

When you ignore all criticism or feedback other than what you want to hear, it's known as confirmation bias.

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If its not meaningfull and rewarding b4, it isent meaningfull and rewarding when you can fly.
In other words you are lazy?

PS the last shit was uncalled for.

It's not being lazy to want to avoid something that is obviously only there to intentionally waste your time, especially when you'bve already been through that particular time waster several times already.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

When you ignore all criticism or feedback other than what you want to hear, it's known as confirmation bias.

"All" is were that debate falls apart. Or nothing would change. They go into every choice doing what they see as right and make corrections all the time. Hell flight in WoD is a golden example.

[Deleted]

Define meaningful and rewarding.

Take world quest.

If you now feel them being trivil and cant be bothered with alot of the cuz they are trivial, they will still be trivial evan if you can fly there.

1k AP will still just be 1k AP. with or without flying.
So if you feel that 1k is trivial, (wich i fell atm) Me being abel to fly wont do anything about that.

And its also a definition, but a man cant say "the world content is trivial and shit" then say "There is so much meaningfull content to do with flying"

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When you ignore all criticism or feedback other than what you want to hear, it's known as confirmation bias.

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It's not being lazy to want to avoid something that is obviously only there to intentionally waste your time, especially when you'bve already been through that particular time waster several times already.

If you say the world content is shit, and in the next breath you say IF i could fly theres so much meaningfull content i can to with flying.
Then you are lazy.

But if you think the world is full of life, and wanna consume wolrd content(do alla quest world achivments) but maybe are time limited, i wont call you lazy.

There is a diffrence