[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Vespian]

I eagerly await the finished product before purchase. /safetyzone.

[Cyclone Jack]

So Squadron 42 delayed until...well, delayed. Haven't we already gone through this at least twice now with this alone?

And it looks like they were denying the delay as of a month ago.

I mean, they're still making progress, but hot damn it feels like we hear about delays about as often as we hear about meaningful progress : /

This doesn't surprised me since SQ42 and SC are linked on a tech level. Seeing that they are still working on eye stabilization, planet tech, etc. then it's going to push back SQ42. That said, I was a little bummed that they didn't show anything. Last year (I think it was last year), they showed the early tech of the intro sequence where you are flown in, get out of the ship, talk to some people and then get a tour of the ship. It was obviously early in development, but it would have been nice to see an update of that with the new faces, lighting, sound, etc.

That said, the planet tech is quite amazing, and the clip after the demo where they showed how quickly they can start cranking out content of this scale was equally impressive.

[Edge-]

They don't let him give out dates anymore, for obvious reasons.

See, I have issues with that. If I were a backer I'd demand rough timelines. I know things happen and dates slip when unexpected bugs occur etc, but I want to know what they think the timelines are looking like from their end.

I think given the frequent delays parts of the game receive, all while crowdfunding continues with them steadily putting out more super expensive ships to sell, this is especially important in order to quell concerns about the game languishing in development hell as it expands ever further and further until they just simply run out of money.

[Rennadrel]

So Squadron 42 delayed until...well, delayed. Haven't we already gone through this at least twice now with this alone?

And it looks like they were denying the delay as of a month ago.

I mean, they're still making progress, but hot damn it feels like we hear about delays about as often as we hear about meaningful progress : /

Gonna be at least until next year, which is what I was saying a while back.

- - - Updated - - -

So they laid out what content/features they want to include in major patches, but where's the timeline? Nothing there indicates when the projects were started, when they're slated to be finished, when testing for them is scheduled to be, how far along they are etc.

I'd assumed by timeline you meant something akin to a milestone timeline where players could loosely keep track of where things were at, pending additional delays.

That seems to be the case. Those are the goals, probably for the next 6-9 months, who knows. Again, a lot of that depends on how far along each of these features is in development.

[masterhorus8]

See, I have issues with that. If I were a backer I'd demand rough timelines. I know things happen and dates slip when unexpected bugs occur etc, but I want to know what they think the timelines are looking like from their end.

I think given the frequent delays parts of the game receive, all while crowdfunding continues with them steadily putting out more super expensive ships to sell, this is especially important in order to quell concerns about the game languishing in development hell as it expands ever further and further until they just simply run out of money.

While I do agree with this, it's really hard to put a timeline on revolutionary tech. They are making a game that has not been done before, and doing things that people have said are impossible. It's like asking a submarine captain how far down can the sub really go. You don't really know till you get there.

But, think about how little money they'd have right now if it wasn't at the level of open development that they're doing. People wouldn't be able to gauge their progress on anything and would likely not be making anywhere near enough to help keep up the company at the pace that they are going at. They made $2.5M these last 3 days, and Saturday was the most they've ever received in 1 day. I know I wouldn't have sunk more than the $30 minimum needed from the start if they haven't shown anything for their work. So as long as they keep showing progress, I'm not worried. Annoyed, maybe. But not worried.

[Edge-]

While I do agree with this, it's really hard to put a timeline on revolutionary tech.

Queue skepticism and cynicism on that one. Either way, games do incredible new things with technology all the time, you just don't really hear about it that often. And they have plenty of timelines.

I get that they're working on new stuff, I do. But that doesn't mean they can't set up timelines. If this "revolutionary" tech ends up taking 5 years more to finish, that's going to put a pretty big damper on actually releasing the game. There needs to be a point where they look at how much time it's taking and decide to cut elements of it because it's eating up too much time/budget. Again, that's what publishers will generally do when developers get stuck heads down on something they really want in the game but isn't really feasible from a business standpoint.

They are making a game that has not been done before, and doing things that people have said are impossible. It's like asking a submarine captain how far down can the sub really go. You don't really know till you get there.

A lot of this is marketing speak. I get that they're doing some stuff that's not common and the scope of their vision is huge, but this is frankly a pretty bullshit, cop-out answer.

But, think about how little money they'd have right now if it wasn't at the level of open development that they're doing. People wouldn't be able to gauge their progress on anything and would likely not be making anywhere near enough to help keep up the company at the pace that they are going at. They made $2.5M these last 3 days, and Saturday was the most they've ever received in 1 day. I know I wouldn't have sunk more than the $30 minimum needed from the start if they haven't shown anything for their work. So as long as they keep showing progress, I'm not worried. Annoyed, maybe. But not worried.

I'm honestly pretty baffled at how much money people, especially the super-backers, continue to throw at the game. At some point, enough is enough and they need to deliver a damn product instead of continuing to expand via selling new ships that may make it into the game in 4-5 years down the road.

[masterhorus8]

Queue skepticism and cynicism on that one. Either way, games do incredible new things with technology all the time, you just don't really hear about it that often. And they have plenty of timelines.

I get that they're working on new stuff, I do. But that doesn't mean they can't set up timelines. If this "revolutionary" tech ends up taking 5 years more to finish, that's going to put a pretty big damper on actually releasing the game. There needs to be a point where they look at how much time it's taking and decide to cut elements of it because it's eating up too much time/budget. Again, that's what publishers will generally do when developers get stuck heads down on something they really want in the game but isn't really feasible from a business standpoint.



A lot of this is marketing speak. I get that they're doing some stuff that's not common and the scope of their vision is huge, but this is frankly a pretty bullshit, cop-out answer.



I'm honestly pretty baffled at how much money people, especially the super-backers, continue to throw at the game. At some point, enough is enough and they need to deliver a damn product instead of continuing to expand via selling new ships that may make it into the game in 4-5 years down the road.

Just because you don't understand the level of the architecture that CIG is having to design to make this game doesn't mean it's not revolutionary. The shear size, level of fidelity, and seamless transitions between everything is what makes this game special. There are a couple games here and there that have 1 or 2 of those features, but none of them have all 3. And then toss in the actual game features with all of it, and then some. They're letting you have your cake and eat it at the same time with this, which is part of the problem as to why it's taking so long.

As for the people that are throwing money at this game, it's because it is their dream. People are also willing to spend a lot of money on their hobbies, and if that includes video games, then so be it. I'm not going police them on how to spend their money like someone else in this thread. They want this game to be a reality. It's not just Chris's dream. People have been waiting forever for a game like this, and someone is finally coming along to try and get it done. With the recent failure of NMS, people were able to see what happens when you rush a game. I noticed on reddit that a lot of the newcomers that migrated over were willing to hunker down and wait after the disaster that they saw and got a refund for. But yeah, it is mind-boggling how much money some people are putting down. I've put down $115 over 3 years and don't plan to do anymore.

But about the ships. None of these ships in the last 2 years (aside from the Dragonfly and Polaris [might actually be an old one, I'm not really sure]) are technically "new". They were all part of the stretchgoals that people wanted, including voting for specific ships to be added. Otherwise, these ships are being specifically sold/designed around the mechanics that they're adding to the game. In the slides that I linked earlier, each of those ships listed with those particular mechanics utilized said mechanics (except for farming, not sure why the Endeavor is not listed in it, might be waiting for the science stuff). So as the mechanics are pieced together, they can use those ships to test out of the mechanics, usually by letting everyone use them for free for a limited time or by putting them on sale again. So, as it stands, they're just pushing out stuff that's on their to-do list, while prioritizing ships for SQ42 (which I think are almost all done, just missing a few variants).

EDIT: One thing I would like to add regarding game dev time. Most games, you won't hear about until they're already well into this phase of development. They try to get the foundation/basics worked out first before committing to the public that it's being worked on. Development truly does get faster as time goes on, because they have everything streamlined and can pump out the stuff that's needed. I'm still sceptical about CIG getting enough planets done in time, but after seeing their tool yesterday that they use to deign the planets, I'm not as worried anymore. Effectively having a fancy paint tool (I'm sorry Frankfurt team for calling it this...) to be able to design the planets with is pretty damn awesome and can help push out planet after planet.

[Edge-]

Just because you don't understand the level of the architecture that CIG is having to design to make this game doesn't mean it's not revolutionary. The shear size, level of fidelity, and seamless transitions between everything is what makes this game special. There are a couple games here and there that have 1 or 2 of those features, but none of them have all 3. And then toss in the actual game features with all of it, and then some. They're letting you have your cake and eat it at the same time with this, which is part of the problem as to why it's taking so long.

Again, sure. But again, that shouldn't be carte blanche to not even have timelines. Plenty of games are technically ambitious as shit, look at Uncharted 4. A lot of what they did in that game is pretty much technical wizardry. But you need to have timelines and budgets otherwise things spin out of control, and we're already seeing that with the delays going on with this and the reports by Kotaku on their internal problems.

Will get the rest of your post momentarily, stupid work meetings -_-

[Darkrulerxxx]

Again, sure. But again, that shouldn't be carte blanche to not even have timelines. Plenty of games are technically ambitious as shit, look at Uncharted 4. A lot of what they did in that game is pretty much technical wizardry. But you need to have timelines and budgets otherwise things spin out of control, and we're already seeing that with the delays going on with this and the reports by Kotaku on their internal problems.

Will get the rest of your post momentarily, stupid work meetings -_-

Well to be fair, those internal problems were doing 2014-2015 when they realized outsourced groups like illfonic fucked up the first person shooter code, realizing the cryengine code wasn't going to work with their vision, and too many spread groups and not being condensed for efficiency. Robert's fixed that by consolidating down and getting rid of illfonic and redoing the code and not even using cryengine and making their own. That was a rough time period but they fixed it and you can see the development.

As per your statement about bunkering down, I completely agree with you. As a backer of the game, I understand that Chris is wanting everything complete, and I believe he can, but he needs to set realistic time tables for people to see this (even if he has to say 2 years or more), it's a smart move for him to sit down with the top brass, analyze the development time and put down a timetable for releases, as well as limiting new developments for stuff not involved in the original stretch goals.

[Gorsameth]

At least with the Kotaku article, we know why the SQ42 delays have been happening: Not so much problems with the development itself, but that they were/are being tapped to work on things elsewhere. (Which still tie-in to SQ42 in the long-run, but aren't directly advancing it ala missions or story development)

Didn't they hire an outside studio to make SQ42?

I wouldn't be surprised if that team is the most competent one working on the project and their basically having to make Star Citizen from scratch, with the main studio delivering nothing noteworthy.

[masterhorus8]

Didn't they hire an outside studio to make SQ42?

I wouldn't be surprised if that team is the most competent one working on the project and their basically having to make Star Citizen from scratch, with the main studio delivering nothing noteworthy.

They contracted Illfonic to work on the fps portion of the game, Star Marine, which would be incorporated into both the main universe and SQ42. As for a "main studio", there really isn't one. They each have their own parts to work on. If any of them would be considered the "main", I'd personally say it is the Frankfurt team. They're the guys building the foundation of the new tech, mostly people that were hired and brought on board from the Cryengine development team that went under a few years ago. The LA office mainly houses business related personnel, but some art, conceptual design and engineering. The Austin office is mainly in charge of design, testing, and the music. The Montreal office is partnered with Turbulent and is the web development team. And the Manchester team is mostly in charge of SQ42. They all work on bits of the main game and pass their work along to the other offices to get the pieces put together.

[Gorsameth]

They contracted Illfonic to work on the fps portion of the game, Star Marine, which would be incorporated into both the main universe and SQ42. As for a "main studio", there really isn't one. They each have their own parts to work on. If any of them would be considered the "main", I'd personally say it is the Frankfurt team. They're the guys building the foundation of the new tech, mostly people that were hired and brought on board from the Cryengine development team that went under a few years ago. The LA office mainly houses business related personnel, but some art, conceptual design and engineering. The Austin office is mainly in charge of design, testing, and the music. The Montreal office is partnered with Turbulent and is the web development team. And the Manchester team is mostly in charge of SQ42. They all work on bits of the main game and pass their work along to the other offices to get the pieces put together.

Fine, so the Cryengine guys are making the game and have only been doing so since they got hired later in the process.
Everyone else flails around a bit.

Game will take forever.
Deadlines missed yet again.
People still throw them money
LoL

[masterhorus8]

Fine, so the Cryengine guys are making the game and have only been doing so since they got hired later in the process.
Everyone else flails around a bit.

Game will take forever.
Deadlines missed yet again.
People still throw them money
LoL

Oh, I didn't know that you could make a game with just the foundation without using art, music, concepts, or designers. Good to know!

[Tradewind]

Fine, so the Cryengine guys are making the game and have only been doing so since they got hired later in the process.
Everyone else flails around a bit.

Game will take forever.
Deadlines missed yet again.
People still throw them money
LoL

Ahhh yes, nothing quite like disingenuous shitposting.

Again, sure. But again, that shouldn't be carte blanche to not even have timelines. Plenty of games are technically ambitious as shit, look at Uncharted 4. A lot of what they did in that game is pretty much technical wizardry. But you need to have timelines and budgets otherwise things spin out of control, and we're already seeing that with the delays going on with this and the reports by Kotaku on their internal problems.

Will get the rest of your post momentarily, stupid work meetings -_-

There's nothing to suggest that they don't have timelines internally. They just don't set dates to the public any longer, thanks to unwieldy shitheads who can't handle it when something gets delayed during an alpha.

[Edge-]

There's nothing to suggest that they don't have timelines internally.

I'm not saying they don't. I just wish they'd share them publicly given how much they've received, how much they continue to ask for, and the spat of delays they've had - particularly with Squadron 42.

They just don't set dates to the public any longer, thanks to unwieldy shitheads who can't handle it when something gets delayed during an alpha.

That's a consequence of relying on crowdfunding, it's not all sunshine and roses because you don't have a publisher. You have to answer to your backers, who can similarly get angry when budgets balloon and dates keep shifting back.

[Tradewind]

I'm not saying they don't. I just wish they'd share them publicly given how much they've received, how much they continue to ask for, and the spat of delays they've had - particularly with Squadron 42.

That's a consequence of relying on crowdfunding, it's not all sunshine and roses because you don't have a publisher. You have to answer to your backers, who can similarly get angry when budgets balloon and dates keep shifting back.

And yet, at least here, the people doing the most griping and complaining aren't even backers. Or people that are so woefully misinformed and ignorant that it doesn't even really matter what their problem is because it's impossible to satisfy them, if that's even their goal.

I've personally been a backer since October 2013, next Friday is my 3 year anniversary in fact Think about what was available back then, compared to now. I/We bought in to the concepts, including the whole no publisher ethos adopted by CIG. Why? Because of my experiences with companies like CDPR mostly, who have for the longest time gone solo with their projects. Sure they get delayed, Witcher 3 had 3 separate delays...granted they're not Star Citizen delays lol...but still delays. Cyberpunk 2077 has nothing more than a 3 year old teaser trailer, but I'm fuckin stoked for that too whenever it comes out. I don't give a shit about waiting because I know that they're doing it to protect the integrity of their final product. Rather than being forced to publish something early and make compromises.

I approach SC's development with the same attitude. By pledging and buying in to this game, I accept the shortfalls that come without having a publisher leering over every aspect of development. Why? Because I appreciate the freedoms that come with that attitude; to develop truly inspired experiences without cutting corners. I also accept that I must temper my expectations because at the end of the day quality and completion are vastly more important to me than any imposed timelines. I'm certainly not going to have a fucking meltdown over it, especially when GamesCom was a month and a half ago lol. If I had to fault anything right this moment, it's that there wasn't enough time in between GamesCom and CitCon to really generate enough new shit. Especially if anything were to go awry, as the SQ42 demo most clearly did. As such it kind of fell flat, hence this new "outrage."

In short, I didn't buy into this project and its attitude just to step in and take over the role of a pushy publisher.

Obviously this is all from the "me me me" perspective. Maybe I'm just too cool of a cucumber...

[Edge-]

I feel like people are saying I'm arguing for a publisher taking over...which I'm not. I'm pointing out the counterpoint though that publishers do often times perform an important function by keeping development budgets and timelines in check. Sometimes that means that they won't give a game some extra time/budget when it really needs it and it leads to a game being rushed out. Other times, it means that a few really neat pieces of content/features/tech that the devs want to put in the game gets cut because it would balloon the budget and extend the timeline far too much and would end up overall hurting the financial success of the final product (pushing it to a less opportune launch window, more development costs to recoup).

The publisher-less model isn't all roses either. Yeah, they don't have a publisher breathing down their throats to make development milestones or telling the developers to change X or Y so the game will sell better. That's great for developers! But at the same time it comes with plenty of risks, as there is no real "oversight" overall when it comes to teams/timelines/budgets. Case in point the reports of all the internal development issues at CIG. Those are the kinds of things publishers often look out for because they can seriously damage a game, both from a financial and development standpoint. So when budgets keep inflating and timelines keep getting pushed back, they need more and more funding to cover it which means returning to the pool of backers over and over and over and over and over.

They've made some good progress and what I've seen looks good, but they're still a long ways off and things keep getting further and further away with each additional delay. I want to see this game finished, at least enough for an initial public release. And I'd rather it not be next decade, especially since they're breaking it up into segments specifically to avoid being stuck in perpetual development while they add more and more features and content before shipping it.

[Deleted]

what is that amazing level of tech that SC is showing? is a good damn Cry engine mod. everything they show has been already done and with a greater quality. lol. and the funding graphs are fake to keep confidence (like Enron). world is full of idiots but not so many rich people are idiots.

If this game ever comes out(it won't) it would literally just be a very expensive crysis mod, I know people have said it time and time again but holy poo poo, they've literally just taken crysis 1 and turned gravity off, made everything greyer and put some space-suits in.
And it's cost $120,000,000 +

[1001]

By now it just feels like the same old pattern. Pre-hype content for the shows, talk up some tech demo stuff and then add unrelated stuff to the game at a snail's pace. Always talking about what's coming down the pipe rather than what they're delivering in the near future.

What also pissed me off is the Squadron 42 hype before Citizencon, they then say it's not ready to show because it's in the greybox stage and missing a bunch of features - as if that only just dawned on them...

The planetary stuff looked alright but nothing really special and everything else was a pile of bodged together boring crap, but even that is god knows how long from being playable by backers.

[Deleted]

You're so good at ignoring stuff, it's amazing. That's spit from the sand worm. When they opened the console during the cutscene, it broke, and caused the cutscene to replay, and while the first was still playing, the second was happening in the background. So when the sand worm turned at roared at the character, the spit flew onto the camera, which you can see in this screenshot because it was happening at the same time, as the first was panning back. And yes, scripted cutscenes are a real thing. No fancy magic. Just scripted events.

really?

try again