Arms Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Ok just to nail it, if CS procs or MS comes off cd we just FR "once" and then MS and just build up FR stacks while in BC or close to rage cap, right?

Atleast that's how I do my rotation right now and it's quite smooth....

/cheers

Outside BC, FR is used ONLY after a CS. Mortal doesn't matter. If you cannot cast CS, you don't cast FR unless about to over-rage. (this means you can even macro those two together)

[ReD-EyeD]

That 40%>30% FR nerf was absolutely unnecessary and it broke a lot of stuff. The only thing FR is good now is just to process the rage.

Blizzard could have just decreased the CS damage (hit damage, not debuff) and that would be such an elegant nerf which would devalue mastery to an extent and decrease the overall damage while FR being a staple part of the rotation.

[alucardtnuoc]

All numbers are based off of my tooltips. Rage cost and ability damage was added for my friend who didn't know WTF the buffs/debuffs were. If I got anything wrong, please correct me. But if I didn't fuck up, FR is a DPS loss to use outside of BC and SD debuff.

~Damage of abilities~
Mortal strike (ms) = 162,592
Slam = 112,382
Focused rage (FR) adds 30% to Mortal strike (stacks up to three times for 90%)

~Damage per rage~
MS (16r) = 10,162
Slam (16r) = 7023
FR (12r) = 4064

MS + 1 slam (32r) = 274,974 = 8592.93 DMG per rage.
Ms + 1 FR (28r) = 211,370 = 7548.9
MS + 2 FR (40r) = 260,147.2 = 6504.305
MS + 3 FR (52r) = 308,924.8 = 5940.8



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damage with CS on target (88% more damage done to target)

MS = 305,672.96
Slam = 211,278.16

~Damage per rage~
MS (16r) = 19,104
Slam (16r) = 13,204.88
FR (12r) = 7641

MS + Slam (32) = 516,951.12 = 16,154.72 DMG per rage.
MS + 1 FR (28r) = 397,373 = 14,191.89
MS + 2 FR (40r) = 489,075.77 = 12,226.89
MD + 3 FR (52r) = 574,665.1 = 11,051.25

[ReD-EyeD]

All numbers are based off of my tooltips. Rage cost and ability damage was added for my friend who didn't know WTF the buffs/debuffs were. If I got anything wrong, please correct me. But if I didn't fuck up, FR is a DPS loss to use outside of BC and SD debuff.

You're missing Shattered Defenses (specifically +30% crit) and Precise Strikes in your calculations.

Edit: My bad, you said outside of SD too.

[alucardtnuoc]

You're missing Shattered Defenses (specifically +30% crit) and Precise Strikes in your calculations.

Edit: My bad, you said outside of SD too.

Oh I'm sure I missed something important, but SD debuff and 3 FR > MS is by far best damage per rage.

[Ggurface]

All numbers are based off of my tooltips. Rage cost and ability damage was added for my friend who didn't know WTF the buffs/debuffs were. If I got anything wrong, please correct me. But if I didn't fuck up, FR is a DPS loss to use outside of BC and SD debuff.

Through your numbers, slam > FR if we know for sure that the next MS will not have SD debuff. Is my understanding correct?

In other words, if you've been using slam to dump rage while MS is on CD, and then tactician procs, then in this case FR would have yielded more DPS.

But if you've been using slam, and tactician does not proc, and hence the next MS is non-SD, then slam comes out ahead.

Is this correct?

[ReD-EyeD]

I hope they will pay attention to arms too when they announce fury changes.

[Chingylol]

Woah holdup. So slam instead of FR now is the best? Should we take Mortal combo?

[Velinn]

Woah holdup. So slam instead of FR now is the best? Should we take Mortal combo?

No, without FR you'd ragecap a lot. Mortal combo is not a good talent also.

[Delmore]

So, from what Im seeing, you would macro FR to CS for all occasions outside of BC. It would provide the one stack of FR during this rotation? Slam would fill in the blanks for damage duing the CD of MS, and MS still being the priority button.

[Bigbazz]

The problem with making changes based on Simcraft is that sometimes simcraft conditions cannot actually be met in game, or play out differently in actual situations. Have you tried making 5 GCD's inside Battle Cry with 20% haste? It's impossible even if you macro MS to battle cry and spam your face off, you need more than 20% haste but in the sim the moment you pass 20% haste it will fit 5 GCD's inside every battle cry. Thus we see a massive difference between in game and the sim when it comes to reality vs simulation.

That's why I don't buy this Slam rotation change, one person has posted some pretty vague stuff about it and everyone is speaking as if it's a forgone conclusion because they gained 1% ish dps in simcraft. Needs more testing.

[ReD-EyeD]

I agree, its very hard to differentiate the rotations in already not so clear priority list while doing boss stuff, switching targets etc.

[Gorgrom]

The thing is you're still getting a 1fr ms everytme sd is up with the new rotation. Even if it's a 1k dps boost the qol improvement should be enough. I've yet to see how cruising blows relics stack with the new rotation either but gives us more viable alternatives.

Also yes if you're lucky enough to have the gloves the original rotation is still the way to go

[thefatty01]

No, without FR you'd ragecap a lot. Mortal combo is not a good talent also.

What about running w/ Overpower instead? That way you're not getting the 20% rage reduction and harder to rage cap

[Deleted]

I don't understand why you use 1 FR after using CS and before MS. If it resets CS and then MS resets CS again you "lost" a proc (or more like some rage that could've led to a proc). I also read that FR is worse than Slam even with Shattered Defenses, so why bother with this 1FR MS after CS?

Wouldn't you rather:
- CS always except if SD is already up
- MS on CD
- Slam in between
- only FR if reaching high rage and during BC

Also another question: How much worse is FR against Slam without SD? Cause if Slam is better than FR even with SD, it must be massivle worse and really not worth pressing except if about to ragecap.

[Deleted]

The thing is you're still getting a 1fr ms everytme sd is up with the new rotation. Even if it's a 1k dps boost the qol improvement should be enough. I've yet to see how cruising blows relics stack with the new rotation either but gives us more viable alternatives.

Also yes if you're lucky enough to have the gloves the original rotation is still the way to go

Actually you get a 2xFR MS everytime Slam procs tactician. Slam>FR>CS>FR>MS.

[Gorgrom]

Actually you get a 2xFR MS everytime Slam procs tactician. Slam>FR>CS>FR>MS.

Is a dps loss to fr before cs. You should only be using one fr due to fr being less dpr than slam. The FR is to stop rage cap and you burn it after cs to garuntee it gets used on a sd ms despite the small chance of it resetting tactican.

[Deleted]

Actually you get a 2xFR MS everytime Slam procs tactician. Slam>FR>CS>FR>MS.

No, you just FR once after CS. Fr is already a loss of DRP at all cases (INCLUDING SD) as shown here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._FU/edit#gid=0

FR is used SOLELY for Rage management and fishing for tactician procs in BC. The other talents are so terrible that the benefit during BC & rage management is enough for FR.

[Jalopy]

No, you just FR once after CS. Fr is already a loss of DRP at all cases (INCLUDING SD) as shown here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._FU/edit#gid=0

FR is used SOLELY for Rage management and fishing for tactician procs in BC. The other talents are so terrible that the benefit during BC & rage management is enough for FR.

So it's REALLY CS > MS > Slam w/FR only during reck/prevent rage cap/1 stack after getting an SD proc? That's sad.

[Deleted]

So it's REALLY CS > MS > Slam w/FR only during reck/prevent rage cap/1 stack after getting an SD proc? That's sad.

It is. However, IMO since many times you are on the move or it's quite tough to estimate rage gains, it is possible that still using one FR is beneficial after CS.

Also all credit goes to @mmomercer (the one who posted here and on official) and @Velinn of Discord who really produced the info and evidence and also walked people like me through it.