No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Maneo]

It's as simple as reward/effort ratio. Because IT IS about that ratio.

Simple equation

Fun/Rewarding > Tedious/Rewarding > Fun/Not rewarding > Tedious/Not Rewarding

As long as the fun or reward exceeds the tedium it all works out. Problem is a couple months into the expac that usually isn't the case. Hence why I am personally letting my sub lapse. If I had flight the tedium would be reduced making tasks by default more fun and rewarding.

[Mafic]

How does the world simply become relevant just cuz flying? If there still is no shit to do, flying aint solving "the no shit to do" part?

People used the same argument for WoD and yet more people were doing things with their alts, gathering professions, fishing, pet battles, archaeology, etc. when flying was introduced in WoD.

Flying opens up replay value and makes many other things worthwhile in pursuing and achieving. If you don't understand opportunity cost and how that applies in an MMORPG you probably should consider playing MOBAs or something.

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But, as I said, when it its the other way around. Many world quests takes more time and effort to travel to than actually doing the quests. This makes them feel less rewarding. That would change with flying.

It is as simple as that.

[TyrianFC]

What are you doing in the open world right now that you wouldn't be doing if flight was enabled?.

The most important thing of all, and prime reason why flying shouldnt come back: Happily enjoying the world-feels-alive immersion and hustle-and-bustle that comes from players moving back and forth along the ground between flight paths to WQ / other ground based objectives etc. If flight was enabled, everyone would simply fly from A to B - and what im doing/enjoying right now would dissappear.

Its very satisfying right now to land at some random flight path, and run towards some obscure WQ objective somwhere - and see tons of people along the way (on their ground mounts) interacting/navigating the world alongside you. If we all fly, everything in between is lost, and whats in between is what makes for a better game.

[Mafic]

950 artifact power or 88 gold or an 835 trinket isn't going to feel more rewarding simply because I flew down on top of cages to release prisoners instead of stealthing through the camp. Now, if your point was that saving time allows you to do more stuff in the same time frame sure, I can agree with that. But that doesn't seem to be what you're saying.

On another note, I do love how Dalaran flight master picks from your favorite mounts selection that are able to fly and flies you anywhere with them. It's like people who want flight can use their mounts to fly! Almost. It's a nice tease though.

Honestly though, I love no flight in the release part of the expansion. But I'm one of those people who would enjoy it being implemented in 7.1 with the second part of the achievement. Anyone who's been playing regularly is either already exalted with all the factions or close to it, meaning that only certain world quests (AP) hold value. And since my time overall is valuable, I would like that convenience of flight sooner rather than later. It means that I can say do more mythic+ dungeons for more chances at gear and AP with the time saved. It's just that yes, I do enjoy no flight for a time.

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It seems you're confusing "more rewarding" with you finding it not tedious. Where you find ground tasks tedious and boring, doing it with flight makes it both convenient, easy, and in many cases for world quests, almost trivial to do them with flight. Yay for dive bombing a boss instead of having to fight through its minions! You'd think in a world where flying creatures and adventurers is a threat, mobs would have more anti-flight counter measures that would dismount you or knock things out of the sky. Alas, Blizzard abandoned that mechanic that was actually pretty immersive because whiny people found it annoying to have to navigate with things trying to dismount them in BC.

But convenience at the cost of fantasy and immersion has been the name of the game since BC.

Another person that doesn't understand opportunity costs.

Here is an analogy to sink it home:

Legion's PVP is so bad not only from the lack of rewards of AP (quantity) but also time investment (eg spending 40 minutes in an AV to come up with 30 AP is robbery for a player''s play time).

If you don't like that analogy here is another:

Trying to work on transmog for PVP sets?

Even if you win a random BG/arena skirmish there is only a 15-20% chance to obtain a Mark of Honor. Entire sets require more than 10 Marks of Honor.

Time/reward ratio is out of whack in Legion PVP and this is also a problem with RNG gearing rewards in PVE as well. Making flying as unrewarding as possible by attaching a raid to it and making multiple parts is Blizzard's lazy way to keep players playing. Sinking huge amount of time for rewards that don't match the time investment.

[Zalamander]

The most important thing of all, and prime reason why flying shouldnt come back: Happily enjoying the world-feels-alive immersion and hustle-and-bustle that comes from players moving back and forth along the ground between flight paths to WQ / other ground based objectives etc. If flight was enabled, everyone would simply fly from A to B - and what im doing/enjoying right now would dissappear.

Its very satisfying right now to land at some random flight path, and run towards some obscure WQ objective somwhere - and see tons of people along the way (on their ground mounts) interacting/navigating the world alongside you. If we all fly, everything in between is lost, and whats in between is what makes for a better game.

If that is worth so much for you and costs me the enjoyment of flying in the game they could simply add a ton of NPCs with generated names that seem like players running around on these paths for you. Because that's exactly how social and meaningful it feels to run past all these cross realm players that you never knew and will never see again anyway. There is no substance to it.

[Hopebringer]

The most important thing of all, and prime reason why flying shouldnt come back: Happily enjoying the world-feels-alive immersion and hustle-and-bustle that comes from players moving back and forth along the ground between flight paths to WQ / other ground based objectives etc. If flight was enabled, everyone would simply fly from A to B - and what im doing/enjoying right now would dissappear.

Its very satisfying right now to land at some random flight path, and run towards some obscure WQ objective somwhere - and see tons of people along the way (on their ground mounts) interacting/navigating the world alongside you. If we all fly, everything in between is lost, and whats in between is what makes for a better game.

100% agreed. This, my friends, is what a MMORPG SHOULD be.

[quras]

SNIP...

Personally I can see the merit of delaying flight for a short time, however that merit is no longer relevant a month or two into the expac.

I can only see about a month to be honest. Given how gamers level and get to end game grind. 2 months is too long.

That being said, I would be fine and even support flight being delayed in future expac until the first content patch but no longer. Anything beyond that serves no purpose but adding tedium and annoyance aka bad game design.

I guess that depends on when the first content patch is suppose to land. How well put together is the flying requirement? Is it a quest that means something or it is similar to pathfinder with some decent hurdles to complete or some stupid ones like rep grinds?

Pushing flying to the first content patch might work if it's done well. So far that is not the case so I can't get behind keeping flying out that long. Just doesn't make a lot of sense.

But if there was some serious effort put into the requirement to get flying back and it made sense in game and not just from blizzards business standpoint, I could see myself getting behind that first content patch but they would have to do better than the BS design they got going on now.

Otherwise, I see no point in not having flying shortly after you reach max level and start that max level grind. You've seen most of the content already, killed most of the mobs already so if you're going to continue that grind. Might as well let gamers get to the action faster.

SNIP.. If we all fly, everything in between is lost, and whats in between is what makes for a better game.

It's not lost. It was used back during leveling when it was new and fresh but that quickly wears off. so...

I disagree. That in between time is much to boring to waste time on as I try to get to where I actually want to go.

You being there doesn't change that nor does anyone else till I actually get to the questing area. Then it might matter if others are there but just getting there doesn't need you or others. You being in the back drop is useless. I'll be at the questing area.

The questing area is whats important even with flying. The reason you are out in the world to start with. Don't waste my time in the boring travels at max level so some random guy can say, "Oh look another gamer ignoring me." as I'm on their way to more exciting things.

[TyrianFC]

It's not lost. It was used back during leveling when it was new and fresh but that quickly wears off. so...

I disagree. That in between time is much to boring to waste time on as I try to get to where I actually want to go.

You being there doesn't change that nor does anyone else till I actually get to the questing area. Then it might matter if others are there but just getting there doesn't need you or others. You being in the back drop is useless. I'll be at the questing area.

The questing area is whats important even with flying. The reason you are out in the world to start with. Don't waste my time in the boring travels at max level so some random guy can say, "Oh look another gamer ignoring me." as I'm on their way to more exciting things.

What you're basically saying is you wish WoW was Skyrim. Like rebecca, you're playing the wrong game and frustrated that an apple isnt an orange because of it.

Don't waste my time in the boring travels

What was the title of this game again? It contained a key 5 letter word... hmm.. sometimes I cant remember what it is, hmm it starts with W...

[Elim Garak]

What was the title of this game again? It contained a key 5 letter word... hmm.. sometimes I cant remember what it is, hmm it starts with W...

If it's not "Waste" then it's irrelevant.

[quras]

What you're basically saying is you wish WoW was Skyrim. Like rebecca, you're playing the wrong game and frustrated that an apple isnt an orange because of it.

Incorrect again.

What I'm saying is when I get to the questing area of the "world" if I need you at all depending on how blizz developed the content. I'll ask at that point. Otherwise you and others are backdrop I don't particularly need at max level of the game any more than I need to see that hill or bump in the rode AGAIN AND AGAIN. Seeing you doesn't add anything to my game if I don't actually need you for something because at that point, you mean nothing.

It's the right game you're just trying to pigeon hole it into something that doesn't really matter. Seeing you doesn't matter. I know you're there or someone is there. I don't need to see you because if your out there doing quests. I'll catch you at the questing areas.

What was the title of this game again? It contained a key 5 letter word... hmm.. sometimes I cant remember what it is, hmm it starts with W...

You act as if flying somehow killed off world content or stopped me from doing world content or any content for that matter. You act as if when I need others I can't ask as if that is tied around only seeing them. Flying gave me the choice to choose what "world" content I wanted to do, got me there faster and once I got past the leveling parts opened the entire world up for me but flying didn't remove it or cause the world to not exist nor cause others to vanish in places it matters.

So I'm not sure where you got confused at in the whole argument.

[Zalamander]

Funny thing how I still feel that MoP was the expansion with most world content where I went out FLYING and saw lots of other players all the time for months after its release. Even without cross realm enabled zones and on a realm with people whining that it was "dead".
Its very simple, just put something interesting/rewarding out there and people will be there.
In MoP they key was mostly great farmable rare spawns(that wasn't multi-tagable or dropped all good loot on first kill) as well as the treasure weapons that was BoA. I think, even today you can find players camping rare spawns on pandaria.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Another person that doesn't understand opportunity costs.

Another person who not only makes claims about me yet knows nothing, but also apparently didn't read my quote, because I explicitly talked about the convenience factor and being able to do more with the time saved. I understand opportunity cost much better than probably anyone here. A task you do with flying vs a task you do on the ground has the same value even with time saved. If you manage to do something else with that time saved, you get to get more value for your time, but that one original task still gave the same reward.

If your time is limited in playing WoW and getting things accomplished, then of course saving time on a task to be able to do more will enable you to get more stuff... and yet each individual task is still the same reward.

Here's the thing though, there's only so much to do in WoW each day. After a certain point of playing, your ability to advance your character decreases once you run out of dailies and dungeons to run. Then you sit in Dalaran and you gain... nothing from time saved. Except for whatever value you want to attach to trolling trade chat.

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If that is worth so much for you and costs me the enjoyment of flying in the game they could simply add a ton of NPCs with generated names that seem like players running around on these paths for you. Because that's exactly how social and meaningful it feels to run past all these cross realm players that you never knew and will never see again anyway. There is no substance to it.

And yet seeing other players gives a better sense of the game being alive than a bunch of random NPCs.

[Zalamander]

And yet seeing other players gives a better sense of the game being alive than a bunch of random NPCs.

Talk about completely missing the point, my entire text explaining clearly that NO, you don't. they might as well be NPCs.
Judging from how much you interact or care about random players phasing in from other realms.

[Celadir]

Flying should be an option. If you want to immerse yourself in the world then by all means run around on a land mount or play on a RP realm. I'm speaking for myself and maybe a few others, but after graduating college I don't have the time to play nearly as much as I did in school. I'm not saying provide a fast-track route for everything because of my personal schedule constraints, but I am saying the options shouldn't be limited to how someone wants to play the game.

[Ordinator]

If that is worth so much for you and costs me the enjoyment of flying in the game they could simply add a ton of NPCs with generated names that seem like players running around on these paths for you. Because that's exactly how social and meaningful it feels to run past all these cross realm players that you never knew and will never see again anyway. There is no substance to it.

A. Broken Isles isn't CRZ
B. Its clear you didn't play the game when realm identity was a thing.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Talk about completely missing the point, my entire text explaining clearly that NO, you don't. they might as well be NPCs.
Judging from how much you interact or care about random players phasing in from other realms.

If they're NPCs, it feels like a single player game. Players are players. It gives players the reassurance that there is still very much a bustling community on their server. Draenor was pretty empty after the first few weeks because there was... simply nothing to do. Everyone was in their garrison. Adding NPCs would have been irrelevant, because again, seeing other players is a different feeling than seeing NPCs.

[Lei]

A. Broken Isles isn't CRZ
B. Its clear you didn't play the game when realm identity was a thing.

Broken Isles IS CRZ tho.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=2#post-22

We've stated this numerous times, but this is not new. CRZ has existed in Broken Isle zones since launch, however you may not have seen it active due to the amount of players leveling the same zone on your server.

Cross-realm technology activates automatically. I suspect that you may be seeing people from other realms since LFR opened today, and many players are trying out that newly opened content (hence, less players in the "world"). It's also 3pm PST on a weekday, which isn't what I'd consider peak-time.

It doesn't matter how it was in the old days, you saw a familiar player, you maybe threw a /wave at them, the difference is, that now we don't have server identity*, so it really doesn't matter.

*Did you know that even Dalaran is sharded? In bc/wotlk you could se ALL the people from your realm, when we got sharding in WoD Blizz specifically stated that you will not be phased out from your friends and guildmates at least, now with Legion even your guildmates are phased away. Why shard Dalaran? There is not questmob there, no mat farm, just people. The epicness of dalaran was that you saw everyone on your realm packed into the city.
We now have no realm identity, but in my opinion it's even worse. Sharding means your realm has multiple copies, and if you get the short end of the stick, you may only see a few people, while another shard is full. Maybe with your friends/guildies in them.
But I'm sure that if you are this concerned about immersion and server identity, you already have a post open on the wow forums wanting those back. Right?

[-Joker-]

/facepalm

You tried to be condescending and failed. Badly. You tried to call me on the time line with "math" but in reality, flying was announced to be returning to WoD on Jun 10th in another polygon article. Like I said, about two weeks later.

May 22, never coming back....
Jun 10th, coming back......

Would you like to have a link and the dates posted? Or do you want to try another save face post?

Polygon is not a Blizzard Source. If you could show me the last official Blue Post discussing flight not returning, and then pair it with the first Blue Post discussing it's return, that would be great. At this point you seem more interested in baiting and playing games. If you have sources and facts, feel free to use them. I'm not one for games and riddles.

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If you dont think its rewarding before flying, then i really dont have to accept it.
If you do think its rewarding now, but MORE rewarding that you can fly. I will accept that.

I would agree. Flying doesn't magically make content great... it simply makes doing it more tolerable. But to claim the content is crap, but flying would make that crap better, then we are simply dealing with whiners.

[Beazy]

A. Broken Isles isn't CRZ
B. Its clear you didn't play the game when realm identity was a thing.

CRZ is and has been in The Broken Isles. /facepalm

[-Joker-]

This makes no sense..

Well, let me simplify it:

You buy my product
You: I am not happy with your product.
Me: Sorry to hear that, here's a refund. Tell me where I could improve things.

You don't buy my product
You: I am not happy with your product.
Me: Well, considering you never bought it and really haven't done more than complain you can piss off.

con·sum·er: a person who purchases goods and services for personal use

No fly, no buy? More like no buy, no bitching.