Three very rich guys talk about Trump, taxes, and the 'vilified' 1%

[Aeluron Lightsong]

well, since you've seem to have completely missed my point, I think I'll disengage. Especially since it'll turn into a derail.

I got what you meant, ethics and legality don't always match up.

[Felya]

So, who is at fault, the government for not creating a simple and easily applied tax code, or these men for utilizing the law and being successful?

Simple isn't an issue at all. A simple tax code, in a complex economy, is the very thing that creates loopholes.

Yes, these man are utilizing a legal loophole to pay nothing. Then explain to me why their taxes need to be cut by 15%? How is the solution to them skirting the tax code easier? Doesn't that mean we need to reinforce the tax code, not make it easier?

If these people who pay no taxes are doing everything they can to avoid paying taxes, how is putting one of them in charge isn't going to create more ways to legally avoid paying taxes? The solution is campaign finance reform, not making loopholes "redundant" by making them that low.

[Bathory]

I can't fault someone for using tax codes that benefit them, that's obvious. My issue is with the tax codes and the politicians who keep perpetuating this kind of economy.

But hey, let's keep blaming the mexicans.

[Theinquisition]

I'll never understand how rich people can have more money than they'll EVER be able to spend in their lifetime, yet they do anything to avoid paying for the society they're a part of... They're also very often religious, at least in the US... isn't GREED a major sin? I'm sure they could pay taxes and still enjoy their lifestyle just fine.

I'd say that both parties are at fault, really.

That one dude paid 685 million over 18 years, how the fuck is that not doing their part?!

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So it's the businesses fault for wanting lenient laws on them? This is 100% the people you elect and the laws they make. Don't try to shed the blame, this is all the elected officials fault. They can have a spine and say no, or be a dumb piece of shit and have no backbone

pro tip: the latter is what the government is full of

Agreed 100%

[Deleted]

Who is at fault, the developer of the game who let a bad feature or a bug through into the game, or the people who exploit that bug?

[Super Kami Dende]

TBH I don't blame them.

The average person will never pay $1million in Tax. I have always found it kind of stupid that people see someone with Money and basically say "OMG WHY IS HE NOT PAYING 10000x the Tax I am, WHAT A FREELOADER!"

It's always the envious that complain about how much tax the rich pay.

"Pickens, who is 88, said that since he turned 70, "I have paid $675 million dollars in taxes." This guy alone has paid more in 18 years than a suburb of people would pay in their lifetimes.

[jdbond592]

When a billionaire claims he is only paying taxes he is required, he is trying to avoid the fact that he helped create loopholes that allowed him to do so. A good chunk of charitable donations are nothing more than front to dodge paying any taxes.

[Tsar Bomba]

Ok. Why would you pay taxes to the government if you don't have too? It's not like these guys aren't giving billions of dollars of wealth to charitable causes of their choosing. I would much rather do that then have Uncle Sam possibly spend it on something with no utility.

[Super Kami Dende]

That one dude paid 685 million over 18 years, how the fuck is that not doing their part?!

Because retards with Arts degrees think that their $7k contribution is "on par" with the $7mil someone who actually made something of their life has.

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When a billionaire claims he is only paying taxes he is required, he is trying to avoid the fact that he helped create loopholes that allowed him to do so. A good chunk of charitable donations are nothing more than front to dodge paying any taxes.

In honesty, I'd rather see them give $5million to a Charity than $5 million to the government.

[jdbond592]

TBH I don't blame them.

The average person will never pay $1million in Tax. I have always found it kind of stupid that people see someone with Money and basically say "OMG WHY IS HE NOT PAYING 10000x the Tax I am, WHAT A FREELOADER!"

It's always the envious that complain about how much tax the rich pay.

"Pickens, who is 88, said that since he turned 70, "I have paid $675 million dollars in taxes." This guy alone has paid more in 18 years than a suburb of people would pay in their lifetimes.

Let me ask you this, why do we have laws?

[Garnier Fructis]

"Pickens, who is 88, said that since he turned 70, "I have paid $675 million dollars in taxes." This guy alone has paid more in 18 years than a suburb of people would pay in their lifetimes.

He's paid that in 15, not 18 years. Notice he said he hasn't paid taxes in 3 years because the tax laws allow him to do so.

That's sort of a major flaw in the tax system. And it's not just the envious that complain about how much tax the rich pay.

It's also everyone that realizes important programs need funding, and unless you make the people at the top pay more (who have more money than they'll ever need or even use), then everyone at the bottom has to collectively pay more. And making everyone else pay more is a drag on the economy and society.

If the rich want to donate money to charitable causes, good on them. But it should not take the place of taxes, especially when it's going to nonsense like college athletics programs.

[Super Kami Dende]

He's paid that in 15, not 18 years. Notice he said he hasn't paid taxes in 3 years because the tax laws allow him to do so.

That's sort of a major flaw in the tax system. And it's not just the envious that complain about how much tax the rich pay.

It's also everyone that realizes important programs need funding, and unless you make the people at the top pay more (who have more money than they'll ever need or even use), then everyone at the bottom has to collectively pay more. And making everyone else pay more is a drag on the economy and society.

If the rich want to donate money to charitable causes, good on them. But it should not take the place of taxes, especially when it's going to nonsense like college athletics programs.

So your whole angle is, because people have actually put work into their lives making something of themselves and earning money, they should shoulder the vast cost of the tax economy because the poorer people didn't do as well as them.

Seems like people like to punish those that are better than them.

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Let me ask you this, why do we have laws?

To keep society in check. I mean if you are hinting that these guys are breaking laws when they are clearly working smart inside them your point is rather well... pointless.

[jdbond592]

Because retards with Arts degrees think that their $7k contribution is "on par" with the $7mil someone who actually made something of their life has.

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In honesty, I'd rather see them give $5million to a Charity than $5 million to the government.

I hope that fancy charity runs infrastructure for businesses, creates stable laws to protect your resources, uses military to protect your asset all over the world and likely your life too..So yeah, disband government and lets see how long T Bone can hold on to his money and his oil wells. Taxes and shared wealth are the reason why mob doesn't go around looting and killing. You are only rich because majority accepts the rule and foster a system that allow you to keep your wealth and make it grow too. It sounds too primitive but that's just how it works. Rich can go around manipulating laws to accrue more wealth and pay taxes to keep everyone happy.

I mean do you think T Boone Pickens pays for education all his employees receive?

[Garnier Fructis]

So your whole angle is, because people have actually put work into their lives making something of themselves and earning money, they should shoulder the vast cost of the tax economy because the poorer people didn't do as well as them.

Seems like people like to punish those that are better than them.

The intent is not to punish.

The intent is to have a functional society. I don't care for the 'boohoo they worked hard for that money' nonsense; that's an emotional argument. If people make more, they pay more. If most of the income is made by them, then they shoulder most of the tax burden.

The fundamental disagreement here seems to be that some people think a progressive rate is fair, and some people think a flat rate is fair. The latter notion of fair is, of course, the notion that maximizes inequality of outcomes.

[Felya]

TBH I don't blame them.

The average person will never pay $1million in Tax. I have always found it kind of stupid that people see someone with Money and basically say "OMG WHY IS HE NOT PAYING 10000x the Tax I am, WHAT A FREELOADER!"

If an avarage person made enouph to justify paying a million, then the dollar has hit the level of Italian lira. That's a flawed distinction to make. See, I find bitching that middle class or lower not paying taxes, because each one is nothing, but a drop in the bucket to those making enouph to make a million to be idiotic. I'm sure you see nothing wrong with welfare queens?

It's always the envious that complain about how much tax the rich pay.

Is Hillary's nick name Shillary because those paying her off are rich and your jelous you don't get the same audience? It's the same fucking thing...

"Pickens, who is 88, said that since he turned 70, "I have paid $675 million dollars in taxes." This guy alone has paid more in 18 years than a suburb of people would pay in their lifetimes.

Guess what, those 18 suburbs combined would still probebly make less than he does, but pay more in taxes. People don't try to get water out of rocks, because they are jelous of the ocean...

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So your whole angle is, because people have actually put work into their lives making something of themselves and earning money, they should shoulder the vast cost of the tax economy because the poorer people didn't do as well as them.

No, simply because all the poor combined do not have the wealth to sustain the entire county. The tax code isn't biased on your standing in society, but how much of the country's wealth you make up.

Seems like people like to punish those that are better than them.

Which makes absolutely no sense. How is earning so much that your taxes are in millions, a punishment? That makes no sense...

To keep society in check. I mean if you are hinting that these guys are breaking laws when they are clearly working smart inside them your point is rather well... pointless.

No, being wealthy enouph to buy politicians or even run for president without any relevant credentials, is not illegal... although it should be...

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The intent is not to punish.

Welfare queens are evil for exploiting the system, rich people are just doing what they can to get bye. Quit being jealous...

[Daerio]

If you don't have a problem with rich people paying no taxes, you should also have no issue with people being on welfare their entire life. Both situations are simply government subsidies.

[willtron]

Ultimately it's the governments fault. Politicians being bought by lobbyists and poor tax law/code just mean these guys can and will use it to their advantage. Every one of us would do that same if we were in that position. It might be morally and ethically ambiguous, but as long as it isn't illegal - then it will continue to happen.

[Slant]

The government for allowing this to happen, and the rich for still having the balls to whine about how burdensome their taxes are. This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. The government doesn't go from taking a lot of taxes to taking little taxes on its own. No, it happens because the rich lobbied for it to happen.

I've actually never seen a billionaire whine about taxes before...

[Surfd]

That one dude paid 685 million over 18 years, how the fuck is that not doing their part?!

Relativity my friend.

In the grand scheme of things, that 685 million dollars in taxes over 18 years is probably a significantly tinier fraction of his overall income then the similar amount of taxes paid by the average working class american. Now ask yourself: (lets use hypothetical figures here) If you are giving 60% of your all to improve your community, and some other guy is only giving 20%, is that really fair to you, regardless of weather that guys 20% amounts to 100x your 60%? He is still getting away with giving 40% less then you are.

He may be "doing his part", but it sure doesnt feel very nice to know that his "part" is often significantly less then what is expected from everyone else, justified by the excuse that he is rich. Imagine how much better off things would be if he actually did his entire part, and not simply the bare minimum he can legally get away with.

[unbound]

So, who is at fault, the government for not creating a simple and easily applied tax code, or these men for utilizing the law and being successful?

You need to ask yourself, why is the law that way allowing such things? The answer, is because of the lobbying influence of the rich. One of the things most people, regardless of being Democrat or Republican, agree was done well was Reagan's simplification of the tax code. But the lobbyists have since made it worse and worse, resulting in a tax code that is not only a mess but, coincidentally I'm sure (/eyeroll), manages to allow the very rich to pay little to no taxes.

The government does not exist in a vacuum. People have been voting for candidates who spend more time helping the rich than anyone else...and they have been voting that way for several decades now. We are seeing what has been wrought by this voting approach. Of course, many politicians like to claim the nebulous government is at fault for all our woes, and far too few people understand the irony of politicians making such a claim.