Three very rich guys talk about Trump, taxes, and the 'vilified' 1%

[Daelak]

I don't have a fucking burner account. Some asshole is fucking with me. And I'm not defending billionaires, i'm defending the principle of my money is my money, and should I become successful someday the government has no business swooping in and confiscating the majority of the fruits of my labor, and anyone who says otherwise is an Orwellian thug who would feel right at home in Stalinist Russia.

Haha I love it, "should I become successful". Great to see you doing pro-bono defense work for billionaires, I am sure they love that you are defending their rapacious and irrational destructive behavior their individual wealth has on the global economy.

[Narwal]

Paying taxes is punishment?

He means vilifying someone for being rich. Public ridicule for the practices that get them to be ultra rich. Mostly it's just the rich who lean right who get vilified, those rich who donate to Democrats all seem to have their charitable nature forced out into the public more-so than what got them rich in the first place.

If you see a fat 6 year old with a coca cola, chowing down on cake, is it the 6 year old at fault, or the parents? The 6 year old is going to plead for the sugary treats, someones got to give it to them who has the power to do so. It's the people of power, who have a responsibility to wield that power appropriately.

[Captain N]

I don't have a fucking burner account. Some asshole is fucking with me. And I'm not defending billionaires, i'm defending the principle of my money is my money, and should I become successful someday the government has no business swooping in and confiscating the majority of the fruits of my labor, and anyone who says otherwise is an Orwellian thug who would feel right at home in Stalinist Russia.

You sound angry! Not only do you get caught double posting on your burner account but think that paying taxes is Orwellian? You certainly do defend strange things.

[Machismo]

Oh to hell with you asshole. I reported him myself. Can shitweasels get banned for copying someone's post word for word and posting it as their own?

Read my post again. I was telling you good luck with your attempt to get him/her banned.

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Yeah, I should start a charity, make myself head of it and donate to my own charity to lower my taxes.

Isn't that what Trump did? Oh wait, he just donated other people's money to himself via his charity.

[Xudomus]

Even if these rich do pay their taxes, how much of that wealth really helps? Something like 20% goes to the basic infrastructure, education, science, etc. which may not make that money back, but does provide US citizens with a service. About 60% goes to social services, 15% to military, and the rest debt interest. If (as I've read a few of you say here) the wealthy just "hoard" their wealth to make more wealth, can the same be said for that redistributed wealth? If you give some number of millions to a wealthy, educated individual and to the government, who do you think is going to a better job generating more wealth from it?

Hell, if you gave $1 million to every citizen in the US, who is going to make more from it, the poor, the middle-class, or the wealthy. I would argue the rich get richer for a reason, because they KNOW what to do with the money they have.

Also sauce for budget figures: http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal...tax-dollars-go

[Scathbais]

The government for allowing this to happen, and the rich for still having the balls to whine about how burdensome their taxes are. This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. The government doesn't go from taking a lot of taxes to taking little taxes on its own. No, it happens because the rich lobbied for it to happen.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. If the government shares in its citizens success through taxes, why it should also give them a break on losses as well? If the Donald makes $1 billion then he pays taxes on that billion. If he lost a billion the year before and made a billion this year, he has made $0 dollars over the last 2 years. Why should the government get taxes on a billion when he effectively made no money?

The same principle applies to hedge funds. It is something called a high water mark. You can charge your clients a performance fee on a certain level of return, but cannot charge an additional performance fee unless you add incremental return on top of the original return.

For example, an investor gives a fund manager $100 in 2016 and the manager loses 80% leaving then with only $20. If the fund earns them a 200% return in 2017, the investor now has $60, but the fund manager can't collect a performance fee regardless of the 2017 return because they are still losing money for the investor.

Tax write offs for losses apply a similar principle.

[zenkai]

Read my post again. I was telling you good luck with your attempt to get him/her banned.

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Isn't that what Trump did? Oh wait, he just donated other people's money to himself via his charity.

He probably did.

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He means vilifying someone for being rich. Public ridicule for the practices that get them to be ultra rich. Mostly it's just the rich who lean right who get vilified, those rich who donate to Democrats all seem to have their charitable nature forced out into the public more-so than what got them rich in the first place.

If you see a fat 6 year old with a coca cola, chowing down on cake, is it the 6 year old at fault, or the parents? The 6 year old is going to plead for the sugary treats, someones got to give it to them who has the power to do so. It's the people of power, who have a responsibility to wield that power appropriately.

That's because rich democrats have convinced poor people that it's other rich peoples fault.

[Kapadons]

Taxing the rich more will make no difference. That's the main issue people have. They think taxing the rich will somehow change their lives for the better. You could tax every single dollar that every American made and it still wouldn't cover the US debt. So taking a couple billion off the super rich will effective do nothing to enrich your lives. It won't build roads or make better schools or fix social security or provide free healthcare or college to you. The US government is already spending the money it essentially doesn't have. All taxing the rich more will do is slightly lower the rate at which the deficit grows. You've been douped into blaming the wrong people for your problems.

[Jinpachi]

The people are at fault for voting in politicians who would draft these kind of laws in the first place. You don't get to be uninformed about the law and still have an opinion about it. An ignorant voting population is to blame, not those who take advantage of it.

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Taxing the rich more will make no difference. That's the main issue people have. They think taxing the rich will somehow change their lives for the better. You could tax every single dollar that every American made and it still wouldn't cover the US debt. So taking a couple billion off the super rich will effective do nothing to enrich your lives. It won't build roads or make better schools or fix social security or provide free healthcare or college to you. The US government is already spending the money it essentially doesn't have. All taxing the rich more will do is slightly lower the rate at which the deficit grows. You've been douped into blaming the wrong people for your problems.

EXACTLY. More people need to see this

[Felya]

Taxing the rich more will make no difference. That's the main issue people have. They think taxing the rich will somehow change their lives for the better. You could tax every single dollar that every American made and it still wouldn't cover the US debt. So taking a couple billion off the super rich will effective do nothing to enrich your lives. It won't build roads or make better schools or fix social security or provide free healthcare or college to you. The US government is already spending the money it essentially doesn't have. All taxing the rich more will do is slightly lower the rate at which the deficit grows. You've been douped into blaming the wrong people for your problems.

How is at least lowering the rate of debt not helping? We had a balanced budget just 16 years ago. We can do it again, but the problem is that it's cheaper to lobby government or just run for president, than it would be to pay taxes.

Increasing a tax on the top in US is not slightly. The issue with both sides of the argument is that status and not the actual wealth, is being emotionally tossed around. If you work just the numbers, without anything attached to them. When it becomes simple math, increasing the demand on a pool that contains a far greater number in a much smaller container, only makes sense.

It's like the idea that taxes punish success. You are taxed passes specific caps, where only the differance between brackets is what is taxed at the bracket's level. There will never be insentive to make less, so that your taxes are lower, because you will never make less by making more money. It's simply mathematicaly impossible.

So, no, if you remove the bullshit rhetoric, the math is what guides taxation on the top, not class warfare.

[Crissi]

yeah, that was a bot. Stop giving undeserved shit people.

[Felya]

EXACTLY. More people need to see this

You really want to attach your self to the idea that slowing the rate of debt for future generations is pointless? It's litteraly, all or nothing?

[Whiskeyjack WN]

When the rich stop acting like actually having to pay taxes is a punishment, you can then get up on your high horse. Until then, your opinion is laughable.

His opinion is laughable because you disagree? let me twist that around.

How much tax have you paid in your lifetime? 100k? 200k?
Where a rich person is probably paying 1mil per year. SO therefore they contribute 10 times more to society in a year than you do in your whole life, yet you think you have the right to tell them to pay more? to demand more?

If that rich person took their money and left.. who would cover that gap? you? of course not.

I am not rich and unless I win the lotto I never will be, but it is very annoying to see that people think the rich should do more simply because they are rich.
If you really want them to 'pay their fair share' then they should be paying the same amount as you?

[alexw]

Taxing the rich more will make no difference. That's the main issue people have. They think taxing the rich will somehow change their lives for the better. You could tax every single dollar that every American made and it still wouldn't cover the US debt. So taking a couple billion off the super rich will effective do nothing to enrich your lives. It won't build roads or make better schools or fix social security or provide free healthcare or college to you. The US government is already spending the money it essentially doesn't have. All taxing the rich more will do is slightly lower the rate at which the deficit grows. You've been douped into blaming the wrong people for your problems.

All income growth post-1980 has gone to the richest segment of society, and average middle class wages have seen zero growth. If the pre-1980 income growth rates had been kept instead what would middle class incomes now be? (hint they would be 60% higher).

High tax levels for the wealthy are what kept their incomes in check. So yes taxing the rich at confiscatory levels would indeed make the lives of average citizens much better (by about 60%).

[Varitok]

Never apologize for being successful. Only disgusting, petty, evil, sorry excuses for human beings expect someone who built his or her business up with their own sweat and hard work and reaped enormous benefits from doing so to apologize or or feel bad about being successful in life.

I'm not against having rich people pay taxes, but I am against this vile idea that we need to punish people for being rich. It's fucking pathetic.

Paying taxes is not a punishment, that is the most brain dead thing I ever heard. This is why your country is owned by the 1%. This stupid idea that because they are rich they shouldnt pay more taxes. It confounds me how stupid that is. Holy fuck, im at a loss for words. It must be really hard inheriting your fathers fathers business and wealth. I must have been tough. All I need is a small loan of a million dollars and im sure id make it too.

Also I love the "Taxing the rich will make no difference" crowd. I wonder who got that idea in your head. Perhaps its the countless lobbyists on behalf of the rich.

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His opinion is laughable because you disagree? let me twist that around.

How much tax have you paid in your lifetime? 100k? 200k?
Where a rich person is probably paying 1mil per year. SO therefore they contribute 10 times more to society in a year than you do in your whole life, yet you think you have the right to tell them to pay more? to demand more?

If that rich person took their money and left.. who would cover that gap? you? of course not.

I am not rich and unless I win the lotto I never will be, but it is very annoying to see that people think the rich should do more simply because they are rich.
If you really want them to 'pay their fair share' then they should be paying the same amount as you?

Its called percentages, If i pay 90% of income tax, Ill never survive because im not making enough to get comfortably ahead of the minimum to live. Flip that around to a rich person, who pays 100 million for his expenses and then gets another 900 million in profits. There is a reason the 1% is more rich then the other 99%. Because we stopped taxing them and now our world is fucked. Countless lobbyists have worked so very hard to brainwash the lower voter base into thinking the way you do and look how well it worked. They can afford to take that and still make fucking boat loads of money.

[zEmini]

It is no different then putting your own losses and interest payments against your tax liability. Why the fuck would you give the government more money then they deserve?

[Jinpachi]

Paying taxes is not a punishment, that is the most brain dead thing I ever heard. This is why your country is owned by the 1%. This stupid idea that because they are rich they shouldnt pay more taxes. It confounds me how stupid that is. Holy fuck, im at a loss for words. It must be really hard inheriting your fathers fathers business and wealth. I must have been tough. All I need is a small loan of a million dollars and im sure id make it too.

Also I love the "Taxing the rich will make no difference" crowd. I wonder who got that idea in your head. Perhaps its the countless lobbyists on behalf of the rich.

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Its called percentages, If i pay 90% of income tax, Ill never survive because im not making enough to get comfortably ahead of the minimum to live. Flip that around to a rich person, who pays 100 million for his expenses and then gets another 900 million in profits. There is a reason the 1% is more rich then the other 99%. Because we stopped taxing them and now our world is fucked. Countless lobbyists have worked so very hard to brainwash the lower voter base into thinking the way you do and look how well it worked. They can afford to take that and still make fucking boat loads of money.

You don't get to decide what is a comfortable life for someone else. That attitude is cancer. Build yourself up, stop trying to tear others down because you are jealous.

[Canpinter]

His opinion is laughable because you disagree? let me twist that around.

How much tax have you paid in your lifetime? 100k? 200k?
Where a rich person is probably paying 1mil per year. SO therefore they contribute 10 times more to society in a year than you do in your whole life, yet you think you have the right to tell them to pay more? to demand more?

If that rich person took their money and left.. who would cover that gap? you? of course not.

I am not rich and unless I win the lotto I never will be, but it is very annoying to see that people think the rich should do more simply because they are rich.
If you really want them to 'pay their fair share' then they should be paying the same amount as you?

a fair share would be based on ability to pay not some flat even amount. simply put 10,000 dollars is a lot less of a burden to someone making a million a year then 10 dollars is to some struggling single parent making 15,000.

[Daelak]

Even if these rich do pay their taxes, how much of that wealth really helps? Something like 20% goes to the basic infrastructure, education, science, etc. which may not make that money back, but does provide US citizens with a service. About 60% goes to social services, 15% to military, and the rest debt interest. If (as I've read a few of you say here) the wealthy just "hoard" their wealth to make more wealth, can the same be said for that redistributed wealth? If you give some number of millions to a wealthy, educated individual and to the government, who do you think is going to a better job generating more wealth from it?

Hell, if you gave $1 million to every citizen in the US, who is going to make more from it, the poor, the middle-class, or the wealthy. I would argue the rich get richer for a reason, because they KNOW what to do with the money they have.

Also sauce for budget figures: http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal...tax-dollars-go

The middle and lower class people's spending is what makes billionaires wealthy to begin with. This is why there is no correlation between wealth and intelligence, because if billionaires weren't just irrational wealth hoarders, they would exercise over 100% of their wealth into increasing consumption and investment into global GDP because it would make them hundreds of billions of dollars down the line. This is why I think it is ludicrous the US isn't leveraging tens of trillions of dollars of future tax payments for green tech and energy right now to ensure global hegemony for another century, instead of listening to imbeciles whining over an imaginary debt of 20 trillion. We have a literal unlimited credit limit, and we can hedge risk like no private investor can.

[Tinykong]

Their success isn't vilified, it's the income and wealth disparity they represent.