[Feral] Legion Discussion

[idunnowatdo]

Kind of a odd question. Once you get your second golden dragon (ashmane's bite) is it worth to spec out of jagged wounds? MY thought process is with longer rips you can get more combo point generators in for more AB procs? Also does AB increase the value of Moment of Clarity?

Is there a feral druid discord? I know there arent many of us out there but id like to join

[Hobbes0773]

Kind of a odd question. Once you get your second golden dragon (ashmane's bite) is it worth to spec out of jagged wounds? MY thought process is with longer rips you can get more combo point generators in for more AB procs? Also does AB increase the value of Moment of Clarity?

Is there a feral druid discord? I know there arent many of us out there but id like to join

https://discordapp.com/channels/1141...80917579923458

[Wolfheart9]

Kind of a odd question. Once you get your second golden dragon (ashmane's bite) is it worth to spec out of jagged wounds? MY thought process is with longer rips you can get more combo point generators in for more AB procs? Also does AB increase the value of Moment of Clarity?

Is there a feral druid discord? I know there arent many of us out there but id like to join

From my own testing the raw DPS of the cookie cutter SR/BT build is superior in all cases but world quest trash. I however have recently been doing SotF and Sabertooth, with BT instead of MoC, and it's been going alright. I do less DPS (Around 15k or so), but the gameplay is far more engaging to me as I'm not energy starved, I can do AoE and adds far better, world quests go well, and it simply feels 'better' to me. If you're OMGSOHARDCORE that you have to be bleeding edge (pun intended), don't deviate from the cookie cutter until they make them more on par. If you more buttons to hit and have it play a bit more like a rogue, swap around anything but BT for the most part, that talent is still just too good despite my hatred for it.

[-aiko-]

Yeah, sadly there's no situation where dropping Jagged Wounds isn't a substantial dps loss. When you do get Ashamane's Bite, though, you are allowed a little bit of wiggle room. I haven't had the courage to drop Jagged Wounds but on our H-EN farm run last night I dropped SR for SotF. The gameplay was much more fun and I didn't lose too much DPS (330k on Ursoc instead of 350k).

[Wolfheart9]

Yeah, sadly there's no situation where dropping Jagged Wounds isn't a substantial dps loss. When you do get Ashamane's Bite, though, you are allowed a little bit of wiggle room. I haven't had the courage to drop Jagged Wounds but on our H-EN farm run last night I dropped SR for SotF. The gameplay was much more fun and I didn't lose too much DPS (330k on Ursoc instead of 350k).

Yea, I'm netting around the same, some fights 25k loss, others about 10 depending on RNG of procs. Honestly if they baked SotF baseline like most rogue specs have, it'd make the whole spec play much more smoothly.

[Goundin]

Yeah, sadly there's no situation where dropping Jagged Wounds isn't a substantial dps loss. When you do get Ashamane's Bite, though, you are allowed a little bit of wiggle room. I haven't had the courage to drop Jagged Wounds but on our H-EN farm run last night I dropped SR for SotF. The gameplay was much more fun and I didn't lose too much DPS (330k on Ursoc instead of 350k).

Personally I use Sabertooth. More freedom in my opinion. Am I top damage? No, but I'm not truthfully interested in being top, more interested in the fun aspect.

It's fun to play the way you feel comfortable. I do enjoy feral though.

Thing I dislike with Jagged and others like it is it forces you to keep applying the dots twice as quick, not fun to me.

[Wolfheart9]

Personally I use Sabertooth. More freedom in my opinion. Am I top damage? No, but I'm not truthfully interested in being top, more interested in the fun aspect.

It's fun to play the way you feel comfortable. I do enjoy feral though.

Thing I dislike with Jagged and others like it is it forces you to keep applying the dots twice as quick, not fun to me.

Yea, I like Sabertooth too. It was a viable choice just before beta ended, when they nerfed ferocious bite. Give it a bit more oomph and it'd be competitive again

[idunnowatdo]

From my own testing the raw DPS of the cookie cutter SR/BT build is superior in all cases but world quest trash. I however have recently been doing SotF and Sabertooth, with BT instead of MoC, and it's been going alright. I do less DPS (Around 15k or so), but the gameplay is far more engaging to me as I'm not energy starved, I can do AoE and adds far better, world quests go well, and it simply feels 'better' to me. If you're OMGSOHARDCORE that you have to be bleeding edge (pun intended), don't deviate from the cookie cutter until they make them more on par. If you more buttons to hit and have it play a bit more like a rogue, swap around anything but BT for the most part, that talent is still just too good despite my hatred for it.

Im not OMGHARDCORE but I do strive to do the best at my class since people dont look twice at feral. That said ill play the cookie cutter spec. Its what ive been used to for a long ass time anyway.

[teddabear]

Is this a bad time to point out that Feral is one of the least played specs in the game, meaning even when it is strong, it won't be highly represented simply for that reason?

It's a great time to point it out, when a spec is actually good its representation shoots up massively.

do you really believe. There are only 500 individual mythic+'s done a day.

Like
do you genuinely fucking believe. as you've said before. that only 14 ferals have done a m+10. Like fucking really. Because unless you believe that, then your "stastical evidence" is worth jack.

Put your money where your mouth is, post your Mythic+ parses.

And you guys bitching about how trash Feral is is just reinforcing the community perception of the spec, which is already bad enough. The spec is in a very strong spot, and people complaining about how it's somehow "trash" is not helping the playerbase at large realize that it's actually strong and worth bringing. You're just causing a self fulfilling prophecy kind of situation

No Feral is not in a good spot. We have 0.001% of the population jizzing over themselves because the Talent tree is as useful as week old afterbirth but there is one combination of talents that allows them to do overtuned ST, at the expense of everything else. The other 99.999% of Ferals would like the talent tree to be fixed.

P.S. While you are linking your parses be sure to include some where you took Brutal Slash, Moment of Clarity and Elune's Guidance.

[Tradu]

Kind of a odd question. Once you get your second golden dragon (ashmane's bite) is it worth to spec out of jagged wounds? MY thought process is with longer rips you can get more combo point generators in for more AB procs? Also does AB increase the value of Moment of Clarity?

Is there a feral druid discord? I know there arent many of us out there but id like to join

No, you don't spec out of JW ever, and Ashamane's Bite should be your first golden. Doesn't matter if AB increases the value of MoC, because BT is still superior.

[Deleted]

It's a great time to point it out, when a spec is actually good its representation shoots up massively.




Put your money where your mouth is, post your Mythic+ parses.




No Feral is not in a good spot. We have 0.001% of the population jizzing over themselves because the Talent tree is as useful as week old afterbirth but there is one combination of talents that allows them to do overtuned ST, at the expense of everything else. The other 99.999% of Ferals would like the talent tree to be fixed.

P.S. While you are linking your parses be sure to include some where you took Brutal Slash, Moment of Clarity and Elune's Guidance.

the majority of my mythic+ runs are streamed on my twitch channel. I have multiple VODs of me +2ing 9s you can take a look at there, I didn't stream my +10 however you can see from my armory that i have it, Just like i can see from your armory that you're supremely qualified to judge how feral performs in high tier content what with your mutliple normal kills! and having completed a mythic +5!!!

Since I don't log my mythic+s to Warcraftlogs. LIKE MOST OF THE COMMUNITY DONT. I cannot link raw logs.

As a side note, Why would i run a mythic + using fucking trash talents like MOC or EG? They are shitty fucking talents that not only suck numerically, but i also fucking hate from a gameplay standpoint and have since beta.

And the usecase for brutal slash isn't something like a dungeon? Its for a mannoroth style fight as BURST aoe not sustained.

And as to the representation comment, that isn't totally true, some specs have traditionally low representation regardless of how good they are because of varying factors, stigma regarding strength of the class (like you are spreading now), difficulty of obtaining those numbers,

We campaigned heavily for the talent tree to be adjusted in beta, it wasn't, the current talent tree does give us some modicum of choice and we now have more options than we did prior to legion, less than we had in beta, but more than WOD so at least we have that going for us.

Edit: Its really wierd, I just took a look and it seems you haven't uploaded any m+ dungeons either? That's really strange? You surely wouldn't make judgements based on statistics that you yourself know not everyone contributes too?

[Tradu]

It's a great time to point it out, when a spec is actually good its representation shoots up massively.




Put your money where your mouth is, post your Mythic+ parses.




No Feral is not in a good spot. We have 0.001% of the population jizzing over themselves because the Talent tree is as useful as week old afterbirth but there is one combination of talents that allows them to do overtuned ST, at the expense of everything else. The other 99.999% of Ferals would like the talent tree to be fixed.

P.S. While you are linking your parses be sure to include some where you took Brutal Slash, Moment of Clarity and Elune's Guidance.

Except that has historically not been the case for Feral, because the spec doesn't appeal to a lot of people even if it is powerful.


The one M+ dungeon I logged just to personally look at something, because logging M+ is not a common thing. Notice how I'm destroying the hunter with all his AP spent on BM and the Havoc DH(who is an alt, admittedly) on overall damage, when you guys keep talking about how Feral can't compete at all.

And why would I ever be linking parses where I pick dogshit talents that have cancer playstyles?(not to mention 5mans not being their role anyway, in the case of BrS)
And you know what, having a set of talents that's powerful(much more so than the other setups, meaning those setups don't get played at all) is way better than having multiple different setups that all suck, and I have absolutely no faith in Blizzard to balance multiple setups properly, and with the current Feral talents I would not want them to either. There's way too many Feral talents that should just be deleted(MoC and Sabertooth being the main 2).
Seriously, is your argument that Feral is in a bad spot because... we don't have talent choices? Really? That's not in any way relevant to whether or not it's in a good spot power wise.

[teddabear]

the majority of my mythic+ runs are streamed on my twitch channel. I have multiple VODs of me +2ing 9s you can take a look at there, I didn't stream my +10 however you can see from my armory that i have it, Just like i can see from your armory that you're supremely qualified to judge how feral performs in high tier content what with your mutliple normal kills! and having completed a mythic +5!!!

Since I don't log my mythic+s to Warcraftlogs. LIKE MOST OF THE COMMUNITY DONT. I cannot link raw logs.

As a side note, Why would i run a mythic + using fucking trash talents like MOC or EG? They are shitty fucking talents that not only suck numerically, but i also fucking hate from a gameplay standpoint and have since beta.

And the usecase for brutal slash isn't something like a dungeon? Its for a mannoroth style fight as BURST aoe not sustained.

And as to the representation comment, that isn't totally true, some specs have traditionally low representation regardless of how good they are because of varying factors, stigma regarding strength of the class (like you are spreading now), difficulty of obtaining those numbers,

We campaigned heavily for the talent tree to be adjusted in beta, it wasn't, the current talent tree does give us some modicum of choice and we now have more options than we did prior to legion, less than we had in beta, but more than WOD so at least we have that going for us.

Edit: Its really wierd, I just took a look and it seems you haven't uploaded any m+ dungeons either? That's really strange? You surely wouldn't make judgements based on statistics that you yourself know not everyone contributes too?

So you can spend all day and night playing wow or talking about it on discord but you can't log to back up your claims.

Feral had plenty of representation in LK even though it was considered off the charts hard because they had never made a spec that difficult. It had even better representation in Cataclysm until it got nerfed into the ground. It does matter whether your talking about Feral's that only care about new forms vs those that raid but raiding Feral's were in HIGH demand in Lich King.

You didn't campaign for jack unless you have another name. I did along with a lot of others. After the second adjustment the talent tree was actually reasonably balanced, although brain dead, uninspired and lazy. The live hot fix is what broke half the talents.

Regarding your side note why would you ever take MOC, EG or Brutal Slash. Your Mannoroth example is a joke. There were more than enough classes that could handle the adds in that fight to justify Feral losing 50% off Rip and Rake. Name a Legion fight where Brutal Slash might be useful. Since you probably can't I will help you out, Spellblade Aluriel. The conclusion was it was way undertuned and underwhelming BEFORE the massive hot fix nerf.

Most Feral's want the talent tree to be fixed where there are actual choices. Maybe not the half a handful that spam parses of their ST damage in Discord but there are a lot more Feral's than that. If you are campaigning to leave the talent tree broken then you are the one hurting Feral representation.

The one M+ dungeon I logged just to personally look at something, because logging M+ is not a common thing. Notice how I'm destroying the hunter with all his AP spent on BM and the Havoc DH(who is an alt, admittedly) on overall damage, when you guys keep talking about how Feral can't compete at all.

I commend you for posting a parse.

Here are the rankings for that exact dungeon, mythic level and affix.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...e=5&bracket=12

You did quite well are the top Feral.

Unfortunately the other top specs beat you by 40, 50 and 60%

10, 15, 20% is within the realm of reasonability. I promise you that you are not beating the other specs by 60% in single target.

[Tradu]

So you can spend all day and night playing wow or talking about it on discord but you can't log to back up your claims.

Feral had plenty of representation in LK even though it was considered off the charts hard because they had never made a spec that difficult. It had even better representation in Cataclysm until it got nerfed into the ground. It does matter whether your talking about Feral's that only care about new forms vs those that raid but raiding Feral's were in HIGH demand in Lich King.

You didn't campaign for jack unless you have another name. I did along with a lot of others. After the second adjustment the talent tree was actually reasonably balanced, although brain dead, uninspired and lazy. The live hot fix is what broke half the talents.

Regarding your side note why would you ever take MOC, EG or Brutal Slash. Your Mannoroth example is a joke. There were more than enough classes that could handle the adds in that fight to justify Feral losing 50% off Rip and Rake. Name a Legion fight where Brutal Slash might be useful. Since you probably can't I will help you out, Spellblade Aluriel. The conclusion was it was way undertuned and underwhelming BEFORE the massive hot fix nerf.

Most Feral's want the talent tree to be fixed where there are actual choices. Maybe not the half a handful that spam parses of their ST damage in Discord but there are a lot more Feral's than that. If you are campaigning to leave the talent tree broken then you are the one hurting Feral representation.







I commend you for posting a parse.

Here are the rankings for that exact dungeon, mythic level and affix.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...e=5&bracket=12

You did quite well are the top Feral.

Unfortunately the other top specs beat you by 40, 50 and 60%

10, 15, 20% is within the realm of reasonability. I promise you that you are not beating the other specs by 60% in single target.

Because MMOC is clearly the only(or best) method of campaigning for anything.
Brutal Slash was very strong before Dark Saturday, and most definitely worth picking for Mannoroth-style fights. You don't speak for "most Ferals", and how is campaigning for keeping Feral in a powerful spot hurting the spec? Now is not the time for massive rework-level rebalancing of talents, that's for new expansions, because then at least they have more time to do it and might even get it slightly right.


Yes, other specs beat my performance 2 weeks ago by 40-60%, which is clearly representative of something. And once again, people are not logging a lot of M+, so the data is pretty much a joke. And no shit AoE specs are going to beat Feral on M+5 now where it's an AoE pull fiesta. That's completely irrelevant because you can +3chest a M+5 with any somewhat reasonable setup, and at higher M+ levels Feral becomes stronger while other specs that rely on burst AoE fall off a bit.
Seriously, stop pretending low level M+ spec balance means anything. Of course a BM hunter is going to beat a Feral when you pull all trash up to a boss and AoE it down, and repeat that for each boss. You can't do that on M+ levels that actually matter.


So, to reiterate once again:

Feral is fine in high M+ because things live longer and generally get pulled in smaller groups, all of which favors Feral.
Spec balance at low level M+ is irrelevant, because you can +3chest it with basically any comp anyway, due to the timers being very lenient.
Rebalancing talents at this point would just end up with Feral being weaker, because Blizzard's balance team is incompetent.
Feral is strong in raids.
Logging M+ dungeons is not common, making the data effectively irrelevant.
Stop blaming your spec for your issues, get good at it and you'll get a raid/group spot regardless(especially when it's a strong spec like current Feral)
You only speak for yourself, stop pretending to be speaking for "most Ferals" or anything like that.
MMOC is not the only(or the best) place to "campaign" for changes.

[teddabear]

Because MMOC is clearly the only(or best) method of campaigning for anything.
Brutal Slash was very strong before Dark Saturday, and most definitely worth picking for Mannoroth-style fights. You don't speak for "most Ferals", and how is campaigning for keeping Feral in a powerful spot hurting the spec? Now is not the time for massive rework-level rebalancing of talents, that's for new expansions, because then at least they have more time to do it and might even get it slightly right.


Yes, other specs beat my performance 2 weeks ago by 40-60%, which is clearly representative of something. And once again, people are not logging a lot of M+, so the data is pretty much a joke. And no shit AoE specs are going to beat Feral on M+5 now where it's an AoE pull fiesta. That's completely irrelevant because you can +3chest a M+5 with any somewhat reasonable setup, and at higher M+ levels Feral becomes stronger while other specs that rely on burst AoE fall off a bit.
Seriously, stop pretending low level M+ spec balance means anything. Of course a BM hunter is going to beat a Feral when you pull all trash up to a boss and AoE it down, and repeat that for each boss. You can't do that on M+ levels that actually matter.


So, to reiterate once again:

Feral is fine in high M+ because things live longer and generally get pulled in smaller groups, all of which favors Feral.
Spec balance at low level M+ is irrelevant, because you can +3chest it with basically any comp anyway, due to the timers being very lenient.
Rebalancing talents at this point would just end up with Feral being weaker, because Blizzard's balance team is incompetent.
Feral is strong in raids.
Logging M+ dungeons is not common, making the data effectively irrelevant.
Stop blaming your spec for your issues, get good at it and you'll get a raid/group spot regardless(especially when it's a strong spec like current Feral)
You only speak for yourself, stop pretending to be speaking for "most Ferals" or anything like that.
MMOC is not the only(or the best) place to "campaign" for changes.

Well I was letting slide that you picked one of the best if not the best Dungeon for Feral where almost all the pulls are cleave situations.

So if Feral is so great in +9 and +10 then log Blackrook Hold, Neltharions Lair or Darkheart Thicket at +10 and link that parse.

Feral is ALWAYS LAST when a new expansion comes out so you will NEVER get a good talent tree or balance at the beginning of an expansion. If it is going to happen at all it will have to happen during the expansion.

I have no desire to work on a spec that it is worthless, I have a thousand other things that are a better use of my time.

I don't think MMOC is the only place that gets read but it is probably the best because Fluid Druid is effectively dead and Discord has little discussion of balance.

Most posters on MMOC are not happy with Feral. Most posters on the WOW forums are not happy with Feral. An insignificant number of Ferals are attempting challenging content.

And if you think all raids are going to Patchwerk raids like Emerald Nightmare is then you are delusional.

[Deleted]

So you can spend all day and night playing wow or talking about it on discord but you can't log to back up your claims.

Feral had plenty of representation in LK even though it was considered off the charts hard because they had never made a spec that difficult. It had even better representation in Cataclysm until it got nerfed into the ground. It does matter whether your talking about Feral's that only care about new forms vs those that raid but raiding Feral's were in HIGH demand in Lich King.

You didn't campaign for jack unless you have another name. I did along with a lot of others. After the second adjustment the talent tree was actually reasonably balanced, although brain dead, uninspired and lazy. The live hot fix is what broke half the talents.

Regarding your side note why would you ever take MOC, EG or Brutal Slash. Your Mannoroth example is a joke. There were more than enough classes that could handle the adds in that fight to justify Feral losing 50% off Rip and Rake. Name a Legion fight where Brutal Slash might be useful. Since you probably can't I will help you out, Spellblade Aluriel. The conclusion was it was way undertuned and underwhelming BEFORE the massive hot fix nerf.

Most Feral's want the talent tree to be fixed where there are actual choices. Maybe not the half a handful that spam parses of their ST damage in Discord but there are a lot more Feral's than that. If you are campaigning to leave the talent tree broken then you are the one hurting Feral representation.

My claim was that most people don't log M+ dungeons so the fact that I myself don't log is moderate support for that, just like the majority of people who do high tier m+ ALSO don't log and as i said, I have them up on my channel.

As to feral representation in LK. I have minimal representation data for either LK or Cata however from looking at historical data in ICC, There were 199 ferals who logged a fight on 25 HC Festergut. out of 6000 logs. I'm farily sure you wouldn't consider that good representation? compared to 300 ferals who have killed HC ursoc out of 1100 logs. (statistics are slightly skewed there and not 100% applicable and WClogs is kind of a shitfest so i cannot vouch for the accuracy of those statstics, better data would be appreciated)

If we had a mannoroth Mythic style fight right now, you can be DAMN sure that we'd be taking brutal slash, you seem to be excluding any single target value of brutal slash, As a note its roughly equivalent to MOC in ST with the potential to be superior and is about 25-30% behind on ST which with the amount of damage you can squeeze into one cast of BrS when there are a lot of targets is easily sacrificable (Note, The top parse on Ily ATM is using BrS for padding on bloods, When those targets are actually effective targets that padding becomes relevant damage) It's like you have zero understanding of the use case of BrS, on a fight that burst aoe would be relevant you can be damn fucking sure we'll use it.

Spellblade Auriel will depend on a lot of things as to whether or not we use it, Primarily how valuable boss damage will be on progression, When it comes to farm and padding we'll almost deffinetly use it. The other fight that i can see brutal slash getting use on is Botanist, It's pretty good for bursting down the adds involved in that fight, and ofc 3 target cleave on the HC version while the additional boss damage would be mostly padding on mythic (though yes the add damage would be very good) I even ran BrS on that fight on testing with xan,And in what UNIVERSE was Brutal slash fucking undertuned before the nerf??!?! it was like 2500% wep damage, it was fucking bonkers its now something like 2025% wd and its still very good at what it's used for (hint, this isn't mythic dungeons)

As to the comment about me campaigning? I didn't campaign? I had multiple direct conversations with celestalon? In fact it became a fucking meme the fact that every time we talked it turned into an argument about us disagreeing about the state of feral and how it would only be good if it was overtuned, I'm fairly sure i had more interaction with developers on the state of the class and what needed to be done about it than you did.

As to the talent tree, I would rather have the current talent tree, where we have some minimal choice, and it performs well, than a talent tree that has a lot of choices, but all the choices are shit, There will always be a best talent combination, As it is now we have 3 rows with meaningful choices that affect our damage, that's more than a lot of classes have, The only tier we don't have a choice in is the Jagged wounds row, and thank fuck for that because Sabertooth is a cancerous fucking talent that should be removed (ditto for MOC)

again, I'm very unsure where you are making your claims of ferals top end viability with no high end insight yourself.

Edit: Feral is ALWAYS LAST when a new expansion comes out so you will NEVER get a good talent tree or balance at the beginning of an expansion. If it is going to happen at all it will have to happen during the expansion.

Yeah this is just flat out fucking bullshit

I have no desire to work on a spec that it is worthless, I have a thousand other things that are a better use of my time.

If you think feral is worthless then the reroll button is just a few clicks away, feel free to find it!

So if Feral is so great in +9 and +10 then log Blackrook Hold, Neltharions Lair or Darkheart Thicket at +10 and link that parse.

Funnily enough the +10 i did was nelths lair

https://gyazo.com/9d7016c91f8131676efa68795a08e98c

There's a snippet from the last boss

Note the time, 3 minutes or so. Every boss lasted at least 3 minutes apart from the 2nd boss who lasted us 5 (3 urn phases because tyrannical) There are four bosses in neltharion's lair one of those took us 5 minutes and the other 3 took us 3 minutes each or so this means that we spent 14 minutes on bosses, We completed the dungeon in 33 minutes there fore we spent 42% of our time in the dungeon on single target bosses. and the rest of the time (after the initial 3 pulls of little spiders) was spent with AT MAX 4 mobs engaged at one time (pulled the first 2 packs in 2nd bosses room at the same time, and pulled 4 in waterway, rest of the pulls had 2-3 mobs) Throughout those pulls I competed with our BM hunters, and our Fire mages (fire mage on the +9s)

[Lucrece]

I think more than anything feral should just campaign for improvement to utility. Bash is a 50 sec cd single target melee range stun. Meanwhile leg sweep is a 45 sec cd conal stun; Chaos Nova is a 30 sec cd 360 degree aoe stun (that's also baseline, not talented). So, bash either needs to become a cone at 45 sec cd, or it needs to go down to a 30 sec cd ranged stun.

I don't know why they removed cyclone from us, it would have been useful to handle miserable pelters among other things. Hell, Ursol's Vortex would have been amazing for the pelters and archers in HoV. Stampeding Roar should not have been nerfed

[Yvaelle]

Hey all, I'm not a feral, but I have a guildie I'm inquiring on behalf of - she can hit about ~160k on a target dummy, but is only around ~120k during boss fights. AMR suggests she could hit ~260k, which is in line with what a feral of her gear should probably cap out at (to my understanding).

Here is her AMR report

I don't have a log with her in it, but I'll record tonight and update afterward.

Any ideas though why there is such a massive discrepancy? I tried quickly studying up on Feral and helping her figure out the gap, but I couldn't see it. Most of the tricks from what I can tell she seems to have down:

- she has ~100% uptime on Rip+Rake
- she keeps Savage Roar up
- she saves Bloodtalons for her Rip
- she's been struggling a bit with Tiger's Fury / Berserk management, so I'm sure that's contributing a little bit
- she isn't letting her energy cap out, but she's pretty competent at floating for burst phases (rogue in past expansions, so energy is nothing new to her)

The gap between 160k on a dummy and 120k in a fight is clearly just the combination of fight mechanics + stress of learning new fights, so I think she'll resolve that with just practice, what concerns me is the seeming 100k she's missing between 160k on a dummy, and 260k on AMR: how could she be missing something so massive?

Also, if anyone is willing to work directly with her in-game, let me know and I'll give you her bnet info so you cats can talk shop with people who have actually pushed the same buttons before! (I don't know what I'm doing)

Hey cats

I posted the above a couple weeks ago and didn't have logs at the time, but then our feral didn't make raid that week, and neither of us were present last week - so there was a bit of a delay in logs: now I have some:

Leyelle on Armory

AMR Report

Warcraft Logs of Normal Farm

It's just normal farm, but I think that makes it easier to focus on DPS. Worth noting I think she swapped to Balance for Il'gynoth because she wanted to try something different - but if she were more confident in Feral, she might stick with it there too.

Please take a peek through Leyelle's logs and spot where she can improve

Thanks!

Edit: Also since the previous post she finished picking up Ashamane's Bite (she didn't have it before) and got some better weapon relics, so her target dummy DPS has leapt up to like ~220k.

I don't know anything about cats, but I do know something about DoTs - the biggest thing I'm noticing is that between her dummy testing versus her logs - she lets Rip/Rake drop a lot during boss fights. I'm sure that's the biggest problem, but let me know what else your cat eyes see

- - - Updated - - -

I think more than anything feral should just campaign for improvement to utility.

I started a Guardian Druid alt the other day (but leveling as Feral). It shocked me that you guys don't have Cyclone anymore - that's super weird and not cool. The flip side is that Predator's Swiftness Cyclones were kind of bullshit, and Feral PvP in the past was being balanced around them - which was pretty limiting. I think it's actually good that PS->Cyclone is gone, but something needs to take its place.

IMO - Bears should get like Ursol's Vortex baseline instead of Incapacitating Roar (which is useless), and Cats should get Mighty Bash baseline - and the Mighty Bash talent should be Improved Mighty Bash: reduced the cooldown to 30 seconds, increases the duration to 6 second, increases the range to 30 yards.

[teddabear]

Luckily we can remove voluntary parses from the equation completely.

All we have to do is look at first kills on Mythic Xavius by the top guilds. I found 1 Feral in the top 19 guilds, Yriss.

It looked like most were using 4 healers so that is 1 out of 266 DPS.

1 / 266 = 0.00375

So the top guilds in the world are choosing their specs out of perception?

[Lucrece]

Hey cats

I posted the above a couple weeks ago and didn't have logs at the time, but then our feral didn't make raid that week, and neither of us were present last week - so there was a bit of a delay in logs: now I have some:

Leyelle on Armory

AMR Report

Warcraft Logs of Normal Farm

It's just normal farm, but I think that makes it easier to focus on DPS. Worth noting I think she swapped to Balance for Il'gynoth because she wanted to try something different - but if she were more confident in Feral, she might stick with it there too.

Please take a peek through Leyelle's logs and spot where she can improve

Thanks!

Edit: Also since the previous post she finished picking up Ashamane's Bite (she didn't have it before) and got some better weapon relics, so her target dummy DPS has leapt up to like ~220k.

I don't know anything about cats, but I do know something about DoTs - the biggest thing I'm noticing is that between her dummy testing versus her logs - she lets Rip/Rake drop a lot during boss fights. I'm sure that's the biggest problem, but let me know what else your cat eyes see

- - - Updated - - -



I started a Guardian Druid alt the other day (but leveling as Feral). It shocked me that you guys don't have Cyclone anymore - that's super weird and not cool. The flip side is that Predator's Swiftness Cyclones were kind of bullshit, and Feral PvP in the past was being balanced around them - which was pretty limiting. I think it's actually good that PS->Cyclone is gone, but something needs to take its place.

IMO - Bears should get like Ursol's Vortex baseline instead of Incapacitating Roar (which is useless), and Cats should get Mighty Bash baseline - and the Mighty Bash talent should be Improved Mighty Bash: reduced the cooldown to 30 seconds, increases the duration to 6 second, increases the range to 30 yards.

PS>Cyclone was no doubt strong, but it was the only thing a feral offered over a rogue or any other melee. Otherwise you're just among the shittiest melee next to enhancement shaman.

Feral has no cloak for magic defense or debuff immunity, it has no instant, on demand hard CC like blind or gouge (PS is not technically instant, you need to consume 5 cp's to gain the buff, so opponents can actually track when a feral will gain PS).

Feral has poor defensives, 2 charges of halved damage for a short time period, no immunities or way to stop incoming burst.

What's more, because a feral is so dependent on bleeds and savage roar boosting those bleeds in pvp, the cost of a Maim compared to what it costs a rogue to use Kidney Shot is trivial to the rogue but crippling to the feral. Rogues are bathing in cp generation, ferals frontload their initial amount and then become starved throughout the match. Rogues get baseline vanish to cc and interrupt with vanish>cheap shots or saps.

In effect, feral has to have OP damage over the alternatives in PvP to ever be considered over a rogue or arms warrior or demonhunter, which simply isn't the case. Feral doesn't have the CC or survival of a rogue, nor the burst of a demonhunter or arms warrior in pvp.

They could have simply placed a 15-20 sec cd on cyclone so you just couldn't cyclone as often and left cyclone in for ferals. They instead went nuclear and pretty much trimmed the living hell out of feral utility and survival, and made them one dimensional damage bots in arena, and the problem there is that tunneling damage bots are not as good in pvp as they sound since in pvp utility is a huge factor since you're fighting people who adapt to undermine your strategies and actions.