Hardcore Raider. Close to giving up

[Deleted]

People have a skewed view of what hardcore means. If you are raiding 16 hours a week, farming quests/daily heroic 7-10 hours a week and spend 2-3 hours doing mythic+ dungeons a week then you are already playing 25-29 hours a week. That is hardcore. This does not even factor in other parts of the game, for example PvP, farming gold, achievements or other stuff, which you inevitably would be doing to not burn out.

I agree that the game require too much playing outside of actual raiding. Don't think it has ever been like this since vanilla. At most it has been 1 or 2 pieces BiS pieces that has been farmable outside of the highest raiding level, and usually only for the first tier. The other farmable gear has otherwise been worse than heroic (now mythic) raiding, and the most time consuming factor was farming pots/flasks (in vanilla), other raids (Tbc), and other raid settings (10man and normal mode).

At first I had planned to raid 1 or 2 nights a week for this expansion, while not touching anything else, but after realising how far behind that put me on progression I canceled my subscription, and I will return in 1 or 2 patches when that is a viable solution.

[ItsTiddles]

Complain about all the injustice of people getting more out of the game after they put more time in to it all you want, but Mythic Ursoc is a bitch and if your team can sit you for a better dps then they most definitely should. You want to progress with your guild, but there wont be progression if they're afraid to sit someone who is under-performing just because you've been there a while.

TL;DR- You're selfish for thinking you deserve to be there for every pull just because you did well last expansion.

[Krom2040]

I definitely agree that the farming requirements are out of hand, and I also agree that it's pretty ridiculous that there's so much benefit to chain running Mythic+ dungeons. They can certainly do things about both of these, but so far the only thing I've seen them address is the farming (via allowing purchases of reagents with Blood of Sargeras in 7.1).

[cFortyfive]

The moral of the story is that WoW is now quite hardcore compared to previous expansions, and requires much more "outside of raids" time. You can't really just be a raider now, you have to do everything else or you will fall behind.

Funny part though is you can be as hardcore as you want and still be way behind the next guy doing half as much.

[Veshx]

In the same boat OP.

I am being sat aswell because of the shit RNG/Legendary crap going on.

Similar ilvl as the same class in the raid with me. He pulls higher DPS because he was lucky and got the big dick dps legendary. Nevermind skill set, cause this window licker takes a good 5+ seconds to realize that he is standing in bad and then takes another 5+ seconds to get out of it. They keep him around cause "oh mah gawd dps".


I'll come back when this game figures out that the current system is shit and they need to go back to what works.
In the mean time, I will be playing a game where the playerbase values actual skill instead of sinking all of your time into something stupid.

[sarym13]

Hardcore raiding requires hardcore recommendations.

If someone performs better than you .. be it the gear and not the player .. odds are in a Hardcore environment they'll pick him over you. Putt in the effort or don't play Hardcore.

[Grimnakh]

I feel like the majority of "hardcore" raiders that come on here to complain are this sort. They got everything in the game in the past for gear from raids due to being in a good guild and are now upset that they have to do things outside of raids like everyone else. Not feeling a lot of sympathy here. The changes that were made are good for the game, and if a few lazy progression raiders lose their slot it's entirely appropriate based on what they're not willing to do.

[Coldvibes]

I don't really agree with much of the OP's post, especially the part about AP grinding, just logging in and doing the basics every day (just like dailies, omg wow) you'll be on track just like everyone else.

Legendaries are fucking retarded though. Especially in the case of DKs where the difference in damage between a DK unfortunate enough to get a shield neck or CC ring and a DK getting any of the 3 main DPS enhancing legendaries (wrists, belt, pet ring) ranges between 5-10% more damage. On a fight like M. Ursoc that has specific demands of damage out of every player, that is very significant and could actually be the difference between doing 285k DPS and 300k. I imagine the gap could be much worse between haves and have-nots in better scaling classes.

[merli]

As someone whom raided "semi-hardcore" in the past (way back in cata) I can understand where you are coming from. Not performing where you think you should perform because of time put into the game definitely stinks. Unfortunately, this game has been "who plays the most wins" for a while now. It isnt a complaint, its the truth. When you look at each tier of players, casual/semi/hardcore/bleeding edge, the main difference is how much time put into the game. There are absolutely skill differences within the categories, dont get me wrong, but the main difference between the tiers is time played.

With the current way the expansion works, you either dont have the time or dont want to put it in. Which can feel really crappy, but its the way things have turned out. Only thing you can do is enjoy what you enjoy and stop doing the things that you dont enjoy. If WoW no longer gives you enjoyment, then find another hobby that does. If just hardcore raiding is specifically the problem, there are plenty of other things you can do in WoW.

Strange there was always a cap what you could do to improve yourself outside of raids since classic. Just doing raids in MoP and some dungeons vor VP was enough to be at the top. Now with Legion there is just too much to do if you want to raid. I know some people really like this but since classic I really liked that there was a cap on how much you could do.
Also there is just too much rng on items. Instead of just rng on the weapon you now have 3 relics + bonuses on the relics which all need to match. Then there is the problems with legendaries. Around half of the people in my raid now have at least one. But for many we still miss any and soon many people can even equip there second.

[Deleted]

well think about it this way is it fair that some classes/speccs are flavor of the month? i understand you and are 100% onpoint with you, first blizzard need to get rid of % scaling and shit making it easier for them to balance the game,(sure some will always be better than some others in some fights etc, the problem i have is that some speccs are just flat out better at almost everything and even the more difficult speccs are often not more rewarded but the simpler the better.

This goes hand in hand with rng drops i like that they added a gateway with xp on artifact i think they actually added it to kill class swapping for mythic progression guilds.

and i dont think it did it, it just forced other ppl that has less time on their hands to play more, a more sophysticated system would be better, and another thing would be for them to freaking sort the balance of the game, dps/tanking/healing.
Some should have thier strenghts and weaknesses and be diffrent.

But it should not be like it is not its just crazy, also legendaries was really dumb it should been 6 legendaries and you chose one path(wich one you wanted to obtain, and you worked along a questline to obtain it, and instead of being a piece of gear you equiped, it was a GEM you inserted in your artifact weapon, keep in mind i also want the legendary questlines to not be rng a questline that you work over a month or so, and time played should not effect how fast you progress to get it either.

Sure some time investment would be a must to follow it, but nothing that forces you to do X and X each day and X amount of time. somthing that a semi-hardcore/casual raider could end up with same progression as you.

[Brogar]

Stopped reading after seeing "hardcore" and only 22 artifact traits.

[Deleted]

Definitely not. I can guarantee I pull higher DPS than even my sims state, and if I was given good "RNG" on drops. I would be parsing in the top. It is not a L2P issue. Trust me.
Try being a MM hunter on Ursoc with a shit legendary, and an RNG based rotation.
Check the parses. 280k as MM hunter at 865 is normal. ALL parses above 300k, utilize one of the top 2 legendarys.
I myself parsed at 298k. I am not stating I can't do 280k.

Try being an Arcane Mage and getting anywhere close to 280k. Won't be possible at all, it's just the top specs that are much higher than 250.

[Cheze]

you have fewer traits than me and I don't consider myself particularly 'hardcore' (we're 3/7m atm, I'm 867 ilvl)

I feel for the folks who got a bad legendary (the dumb pvp one really shouldn't even be in the shared pool), but it's far from the end of the world and won't prevent you from doing enough dps to justify a spot in mythic progress. Parsing in general is kind of a stupid way to evaluate your performance and if your guild is sitting you consistently on that basis either your leadership is dumb, or you're failing at other things.

[Violetti]

I guess I should have listed this as Previously a Hardcore Raider.
My point is none of the listed things were part of being a Hardcore Raider. It previously was just how well you played your class and spent time wiping in raids.

Now it legitimately is about spending more time than the other person. Which REALLY SUCKS. And thus the point of my rant.

- - - Updated - - -


Definitely not. I can guarantee I pull higher DPS than even my sims state, and if I was given good "RNG" on drops. I would be parsing in the top. It is not a L2P issue. Trust me.
Try being a MM hunter on Ursoc with a shit legendary, and an RNG based rotation.
Check the parses. 280k as MM hunter at 865 is normal. ALL parses above 300k, utilize one of the top 2 legendarys.
I myself parsed at 298k. I am not stating I can't do 280k.

300k is like sub 20% parse as MM???

[Deleted]

300k is like sub 20% parse as MM???

keep ind mind ursoc mythic is not same as normal and heroic.

you get cleave on mythic so many forgets this.

[Spotnick]

Tbh you don't deserve a raiding spot in a hardcore raiding guild if you only have 22 AP at this point. That's beyond laziness.

It's called having a job.

I'm at 22 artifact power and I don't feel like i'm behind at all, but then again I'm a healer, and the next traits I'd get are total crap.

By the time Nighthold releases everybody will have the same level, just spread out in the same level... that's what AK does.

[Obsession]

Artifact 22? I can tell you play a lot and definitely have earned a legendary.

[KaPe]

I feel like the majority of "hardcore" raiders that come on here to complain are this sort. They got everything in the game in the past for gear from raids due to being in a good guild and are now upset that they have to do things outside of raids like everyone else. Not feeling a lot of sympathy here. The changes that were made are good for the game, and if a few lazy progression raiders lose their slot it's entirely appropriate based on what they're not willing to do.

What's lazy about someone lucking out and getting two good legendaries vs crappy pvp rings? It's entirely possible to happen and it's not even that unlikely, considering it's totally random. It has nothing to do with working more, putting effort or whatever.

It's like every single post is "welp, he only has X traits, clearly everything else is invalid".

[Otimus]

People got kind of spoiled by how WoD made everything so easy for the top tier of playing. (i.e. you really didn't have to do much to get there, other than be skilled enough to do it.)

I can see people complaining about that not longer being the case.

However, with that no longer being the case, the overall game for everyone else is better for it.

[Smaxy]

U aren't hardcore ur a casual.

Play with people who have the same mindset as you/put in the same time as you and ull have fun.