No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[SirCowdog]

Much of what WoW has to offer in content can be found in many other games. Exploration, dungeons, raids, etc. What WoW has unique to it is the ability to mount and fly. Take that away, and part of WoW's uniqueness is gone. The environments are just as pretty, the content is just as fun, but the ability to enjoy it the same way as before is being gated arbitrarily.

Also, it's not about being an only source of fun, but being a valued part of how to enjoy the fun. How would you feel if Blizzard reduced the game to walking speed and took away all the mounts? You'd feel pretty handicapped, possibly enough to leave the game and play something else. That's how some people feel about flight having been taken away. Is it rational to you or me? Possibly not, but there's no reason to pretend it doesn't matter. Flight is a big issue.

I find quite a bit of truth in both of these paragraphs. Right now I'm actually playing Fallout 4 with the survival mode enabled. For those of you who've never played Fallout it might not make sense, but basically it takes away fast-travel, and makes everything more difficult. But here's the thing, I played Fallout 4 once through on normal mode, with fast travel, and really enjoyed the exploring and collecting aspects of the game. But I'm also now playing through again with all the conveniences turned off, and enjoying it even MORE!

The problem with WoW and the No-flying doctrine is that adding tedium simply doesn't work in the setting of WoW. The context is all wrong. We've had too long to get used to what WoW is, and it's already pretty well established in what it is. Does that mean a "survival" mode for WoW wouldn't work? No, not necessarily. I think it COULD work, but it would have to be an option. And that's where things break down with No-Flying: We're not being given any options. We're being told that there's only one way to play the game, and that all other ways, even those that were previously available for YEARS, are invalid.

[bufferunderrun]

Great? No. Better? Yes it certainly did.

No flight is a tactic employed by Blizzard to extend the content they already have in the game. Content takes longer to do, players play for longer hours. With no flight, Blizzard has complete control over content pacing. It's already gated behind an achievement/unlocking system, the time gating only adds frustration for players who want flight.

The time gating is arbitrary. Having flight is win-win, and the only negative impact is Blizzard being unable to properly control player pacing (people using flight to farm rep, professions, achievements, etc). The other drawback is the fact the new zones are much smaller by design, which lack of flight creates the illusion of being bigger than they actually are. That, IMO, is more an oversight (not a flaw) in design.

imho that is not an oversight or a flaw it is the real reason why flying was removed and gated, they took this decision when they try to release 1 xpack = 1 year, i don't think blizzard care this much about how much peoples farm (there are other solution that would have given them less headache) but the time they need to craft a continent with flying enabled from cap is higher than the one the need to spent for a continent where flying is enabled once all the content is exhausted.

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The pacing argument is conspiracy level bull shit. Everything in this game is under time locks that have nothing to do with flying. Weekly lockouts. Daily lockouts. Even all of the world quests are on a timer. So you're telling me if i had flying I would be able to accomplish more than someone without flying? From a pacing standpoint, you're just wrong. We would both hit the timewall on whatever we're doing regardless.

so if flying was enabled isn't plausible that most of the players just had the speed to completely wipe all the WQ from the map compared to now were the only one doing it are player with much much time to spent in game? How many with flying will go beyond the 4 wq for the emissary and farm the hell out of wq until all are done and wait for another reset?

[Elim Garak]

Imagine if Blizz forced flight (an option in the game) on every level cap player.

I don't get it, make up your mind should I imagine it forced or as an option?

If it's an option - no problem, just like high level players don't affect level 1 gnome runners, flying players won't affect ground lovers.

[Thimagryn]

imho that is not an oversight or a flaw it is the real reason why flying was removed and gated, they took this decision when they try to release 1 xpack = 1 year, i don't think blizzard care this much about how much peoples farm (there are other solution that would have given them less headache) but the time they need to craft a continent with flying enabled from cap is higher than the one the need to spent for a continent where flying is enabled once all the content is exhausted.

It's a choice on their end, but not one I completely agree with. I think they've put a lot of effort in making their zones full of depth and looking fantastic, but I'm still a fan of the large landscapes that made World of Warcraft stand out. Wrath of the Lich King integrated flight in the level design fairly well, having the major city in the air in the middle of the zone; having Wintergrasp be a no-fly zone for PVP; and dailies were spread far apart in various zones, requiring flight to be effecient. Even raids like Ulduar required flight to access.

I really have no problems with what Blizzard has decided to do with Legion. People are having fun, and flight is still being added in teh future. I just don't see much point to gating it knowing that it will be unlocked eventually anyways. Is unlocking it 4 months from now going to provide a better experience than unlocking it now?

[Deleted]

Again, missing the point of showing how much fun the game is when you are not tunnel visioned to transportation.

Because People do Gnomeruns every day and have fun doing it.... Oh man you are so far off.
This Thread is NOT about having fun in the game. It is about when flight arrives. I know how do have my fun in the game. In Wod when every left and my sub had still over a month to run out i had fun doing things like look for some nice transmogs or visit old places i loved that have changed during Cata by RIDING there. But i had the CHOICE. I could have flown there to if i wanted. So i know how to have fun in the game. But it is a game they want me to pay monthly for and as a responsive customer i have to make responsible decisions. They can NOT tell me how to have fun by taking away things i like in the game, if they do they simply don't get my money. I am not some kind of an addict that needs to stay subbed even when they change things the way i don't like. It's just a game, and there are others that are more fun right now and on the plus side... i don't have to pay monthly for them.

The only one with a tunnelvision is you.

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The irony is, why should 7M+ players who are enjoying Legion give a damn about a few thousand players who want flight?

Very interesting.... First: how do you know that there are actually 7 mio + playing Legion? Blizzard never gave out any numbers about subs for over a year. Nothing indicates to that the last 5.5 mio. stayed til the end of WoD. And initial sales record is well below 7 Mio. and nothing says that all those people are still playing.

So besides that you are making numbers up just to your likings you are right: there are only a couple of thousands that actually discuss in the forums about wanting flight back. BUT... there are even far far far far less people that don't want flight in those forums.

So you don't actually think that Blizzard brought back flight because of those thousands that protested in the forum against Blizzards decision to cut it of the game, do you? Now that would be stupid.

[Deleted]

There are things I enjoy in Legion. No-flying is not one of them. The whistle is a bandaid which is OK regarding the utility, but it still cannot compensate the freedom of movement which I have with flight. While I already have PF 1, I still did not discover some flight masters on my main, because I had no need to go there, and I will not waste my time with their zone mazes to get to things I don't need.

I know I would be getting these flight masters if I could just fly to them, though I would not need them much in such a situation. But I just would visit the place because I can do it with less effort and less time to lose. I just always have to check the time requirement of a task and if I can do some other task which has equal or better outcome (it can be loot, quest reward, or a fun aspect of a quest which I like to re-play) or not. The more time consuming things are, the harsher my selection needs to be, the less content is therefore available to me in a given timeframe. In some aspects, this enhances the longevity of content (like gating of reputation gains via emissary quest CD and such), in other aspects, higher time constrainst outright REMOVE content from my game because I don't have enough time left to run such content. PvP is the first thing that got cut from my content, later raiding. I thought I could possibly have a mythic+ group, but it does not look like that. Another chunk of content falling down from my priority list because of time constraints.

They have all the technology they need to combine a world with flying and their ground-based quest design. They just don't want to use it. I bet this has nothing to do with providing the best gaming experience to us (which Blizzard claims to be their standard), but with some internal reasons. Because there are many people out there for whom flying is an improvement of their gaming experience (in whatever aspects they find relevant, there are many reasons), and this is deliberately ignored.

[Mafic]

I'll bite. What aspect of flying requires all of that testing?

Read the last ten pages and here is a quick summary.

*They have to make sure they are no holes in the geometry
*Make sure the skybox is set properly
*Make sure that players are not instantly dismounted when crossing one phase to another.
*Broken Isles carved up by CRZ and CRZ which will cause unexpected dismounts. Another example is CRZ causes stealth to instantly drop from one side to another.

Best case scenario they can make sure everything is clear one month. Usually it takes 2-3 months which is why in the past it was tested in beta of BC, WotLK, Cata, and MoP. BC had a short beta so they started testing flight earlier than beta, but they still needed the extra time to ensure flight was ready for players.

[Flarelaine]

... is this still going???

[RobertMugabe]

Read the last ten pages and here is a quick summary.

*They have to make sure they are no holes in the geometry
*Make sure the skybox is set properly
*Make sure that players are not instantly dismounted when crossing one phase to another.
*Broken Isles carved up by CRZ and CRZ which will cause unexpected dismounts. Another example is CRZ causes stealth to instantly drop from side to another.

Best case scenario they can make sure everything is clear one month. Usually it takes 2-3 months which is why in the past it was tested in beta of BC, WotLK, Cata, and MoP. BC had a short beta so they started testing flight earlier than beta, but they still needed the extra time to ensure flight was ready for players.

Well the last 2 points are mostly the same and the rest is not a big deal at all, also 2-3 months of testing is a far too big estimate really. Blizzard already made the map properly for flying (i use the glider and toys all the time and i had no issue)...

You don't have the same issue like in Vanilla and WoD, where you had weird invisible walls, quests which are far too easy with flying enabled AND unfinished zones (tanaan jungle in WoD and pretty much 1/3 of the vanilla map was unfinished)

OT: I still enjoy playing Legion without flying.

[-Joker-]

Okay, so no matter how bullshit things get, you'll just see the good side of things and not let it bother you. So I challenge you, for one week of play, don't use your mount or run. Only walk. I'd like to know how long it takes until you begin to feel the fatigue of not being able to mount or run. Those memories don't last forever, and for a lot of people who want flight, the non-flight content was real fun but they're ready to have flight now.

I do this every time I log into my Rogue (my RP character). Unless she steals a horse (summons a mount) as part of the RP, she and her 2 travelling companions are on foot... always. It's my way of keeping the adventure alive in the game. Walking is not the nightmare people predict, and the RP eventually leads to a quest hub, or an instance. All depends on where the story takes us.

Some people here go overboard, but that's no reason to dismiss others and all arguments for flight because of the acts of a few. When you use your own personal convictions to explain how you think others should act, that is called projecting. It's very condescending and insulting.

There are four or five people who continue to exaggerate. I haven't the inclination to entertain the rantings of madmen. Bring me a calm and constructive dialog and I am happy to engage. But when every post is "The sky is falling, no fly no buy, and Blizz will soon learn their lesson", it gets a bit difficult to take them serious. Rebecca would have a stronger case if she were at least a consumer. But, I am not getting back into that circular discussion.

Why do you let what they say bother you? They aren't making a personal attack on your convictions. I see things the other way around, where you are addressing people and passing judgement of how they're not doing things that you are doing. You aren't even making a suggestion, you're outright drawing lines in the sand and condemning those you don't see fit to have an opinion. Anyone who hasn't played Legion is not fit to have an opinion about it, right?

Aside from Beazy trying to bait me, and Mafic being himself, no one else really nudges me in the wrong direction. My biggest issue is with those who would take personal opinion and distort it as fact. "Millions of players who love flying" and other broad sweeping statements, as though Mafic were the designated spokesman for the pro-flight camp. I am pro-flight, and don't buy 90% of what he types. I feel like the Republican who just wants to tell Donald Trump to shut the hell up.

You cherry pick what suits you and ignore everything else. That in itself is ignorance.

That's not exclusive to me. Everyone picks apart the conversations of others and spins it to their narrative. Anytime someone breaks out a reply like you have done here, and I have done to reply, we are cherry picking. Focusing on one item, looking to discredit it. Neither of us have ever offered the merit of the other's opinion. That's not what we do. We shred each other's opinions in an effort to discredit one another. The only shining spot in all of this is, I am on the winning side of fun. When I leave the forum, I log into the game and enjoy myself. Players who allow a travel mechanic to dictate their fun either sit here and refresh the page, or they go play another MMO. As a pro-flier, I've just learned to accept that nothing I say, or do, will change Blizzard's mind.

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The only one with a tunnelvision is you.

I'm not the one protesting a travel mechanic and refusing to play a game I have enjoyed since 2006.

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I don't get it, make up your mind should I imagine it forced or as an option?

If it's an option - no problem, just like high level players don't affect level 1 gnome runners, flying players won't affect ground lovers.

You were the one using the "forced" metaphor. No one in this game is forced to do anything. You want to fly? Pick a zone with flight enabled. It's that simple. But this group wants to make mountains of molehills just so they can bitch about having to go around said mountain. I get it. You enjoy fighting. I've yet to see a calm and sensible post regarding the merits of flight vs Blizz's authority to design as they see fit. So feel free to quote me moving forward, but please don't be offended when I don't rebut.

[Mafic]

Well the last 2 points are mostly the same and the rest is not a big deal at all, also 2-3 months of testing is a far too big estimate really. Blizzard already made the map properly for flying (i use the glider and toys all the time and i had no issue)...

You don't have the same issue like in Vanilla and WoD, where you had weird invisible walls, quests which are far too easy with flying enabled AND unfinished zones (tanaan jungle in WoD and pretty much 1/3 of the vanilla map was unfinished)

OT: I still enjoy playing Legion without flying.

Similar but not the same. There are holes in the geometry on the ground as well that can cause problems where players with a ground mount couldn't reach a flying mount can reach so those holes have to be fixed too.

And then you glossed over all the other issues like where CRZ is taking to the extreme which is the first time we have seen heavy use of CRZ in Broken Isle, so yeah flying is not a flip of a switch. Even the moderate use of CRZ in MoP caused instant dismounts and in WoD phasing tech crossing between garrison to a zone also caused instant dismounts.

[-Joker-]

First: how do you know that there are actually 7 mio + playing Legion? Blizzard never gave out any numbers about subs for over a year. Nothing indicates to that the last 5.5 mio. stayed til the end of WoD. And initial sales record is well below 7 Mio. and nothing says that all those people are still playing.

Pick any number you like. You and your proflight buddies are 5 of that (insert number here). Given the number of players in the game, and the number of crashes to get in to play a DH, I was just using common sense remembering the last time realms started failing hard was when the game had 10M people logging in for MoP. But whatever makes you feel better.

[Mafic]

There are things I enjoy in Legion. No-flying is not one of them. The whistle is a bandaid which is OK regarding the utility, but it still cannot compensate the freedom of movement which I have with flight. While I already have PF 1, I still did not discover some flight masters on my main, because I had no need to go there, and I will not waste my time with their zone mazes to get to things I don't need.

I know I would be getting these flight masters if I could just fly to them, though I would not need them much in such a situation. But I just would visit the place because I can do it with less effort and less time to lose. I just always have to check the time requirement of a task and if I can do some other task which has equal or better outcome (it can be loot, quest reward, or a fun aspect of a quest which I like to re-play) or not. The more time consuming things are, the harsher my selection needs to be, the less content is therefore available to me in a given timeframe. In some aspects, this enhances the longevity of content (like gating of reputation gains via emissary quest CD and such), in other aspects, higher time constrainst outright REMOVE content from my game because I don't have enough time left to run such content. PvP is the first thing that got cut from my content, later raiding. I thought I could possibly have a mythic+ group, but it does not look like that. Another chunk of content falling down from my priority list because of time constraints.

They have all the technology they need to combine a world with flying and their ground-based quest design. They just don't want to use it. I bet this has nothing to do with providing the best gaming experience to us (which Blizzard claims to be their standard), but with some internal reasons. Because there are many people out there for whom flying is an improvement of their gaming experience (in whatever aspects they find relevant, there are many reasons), and this is deliberately ignored.

Given the heavy focus on instances they do not care about the world content in WoD or Legion. What we also know is that if they can stretch out the world content they launch with and maybe additional content that they thrown in they figure it is good enough. Minimal effort and zero regard to player interaction and enjoyment because they assume that players will be sitting around in Dalaran waiting for queues for dungeons and raids.

So they figure flying isn't "important". But they fail to realize not all players are lazy and want to sit in Dalaran waiting for queues. This is why flying provides a layer of game play for non raiders that can simply not be replaced. Period.

And even raiders love flying as they want to spend time...you know raiding than having to spend their precious time gathering herbalism mats for potions and flasks.

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... is this still going???

To answer your question, yes.

To answer more broadly this isn't going to be resolved till the "mid expansion" arrives or there is a massive paradigm shift with regard to flying in Legion. I personally don't see this ending well at all but that is just my humble opinion based upon past behaviors from Blizzard's handling of flight in WoD.

[RobertMugabe]

Similar but not the same. There are holes in the geometry on the ground as well that can cause problems where players with a ground mount couldn't reach a flying mount can reach so those holes have to be fixed too.

And then you glossed over all the other issues like where CRZ is taking to the extreme which is the first time we have seen heavy use of CRZ in Broken Isle, so yeah flying is not a flip of a switch. Even the moderate use of CRZ in MoP caused instant dismounts and in WoD phasing tech crossing between garrison to a zone also caused instant dismounts.

The dismounting would also happen with ground mounts... this was never a flying specific issue

Also if CRZ is an issue then they have to fix the CRZ-tech, not somehow fix each zone (I haven't seen a CRZ related bug now for a Long Long time)

[Zalamander]

The dismounting would also happen with ground mounts... this was never a flying specific issue

Also if CRZ is an issue then they have to fix the CRZ-tech, not somehow fix each zone (I haven't seen a CRZ related bug now for a Long Long time)

Nah the dismount zone phasing bug was fixed pretty quickly, haven't been there for years.
I have seen a few phase shifting dismount bugs in a few of Legion zones tho that will be trouble if you are flying.

[Mafic]

The dismounting would also happen with ground mounts... this was never a flying specific issue

Also if CRZ is an issue then they have to fix the CRZ-tech, not somehow fix each zone (I haven't seen a CRZ related bug now for a Long Long time)

No, that is not what I just posted.

I said in areas where ground mounts can't reach the holes in the geometry a flying mount could and thus they have to go back to fix that.

CRZ bugs have been plentiful since launch and that is without flying.

At this point I realize you don't even known what you are talking about and are not even reading what people are positing the last ten pages.

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Nah the dismount zone phasing bug was fixed pretty quickly, haven't been there for years.
I have seen a few phase shifting dismount bugs in a few of Legion zones tho that will be trouble if you are flying.

It was still in MoP while WoD shipped actually where the zone phasing caused auto dismounts.

And that is the other thing. The dismounts from zone phasing or CRZ didn't stop Blizzard from:

A. Launching and releasing multiple patches in MoP
B. Having flying available at launch of MoP.

Blizzard all of sudden took this pious stance in WoD citing as to the delay of flying in WoD that they had to fix dismounting issues. In truth they wanted to pair it with the PVP merc changes in one single patch before the end of the 3rd quarter.

[Deleted]

I'm not the one protesting a travel mechanic and refusing to play a game I have enjoyed since 2006.

Maybe not, but the way how you use arguments is pretty much to be defined as "tunnelvision". By the way.... i am not protesting. I am discussing a topic in the appropriate thread. I enjoyed the game too since 2005 but that doesn't mean i have to play it all the time. And i am not "refusing" to play this game over a travel mechanic. I just looked at many aspects of this expansions and deem then to make the game be less fun than i had before, that's why i decided it is not worth my money. Besides... for people with no to very limited imagination this is only about a travel mode. For me it is a tool to have fun and enjoy the game my way.

....refuse to play a game... maybe you picked the wrong word unintentionally, but using "refuse" in this context is a little problematic. Makes the sentence sound as if it came from an addict, or someone that is used to be told and dictated to what they have to like. But in reality its more like "i refuse to pay them money for something i know won't be as much fun as i want it to be, so i don't buy their product".

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Pick any number you like. You and your proflight buddies are 5 of that (insert number here). Given the number of players in the game, and the number of crashes to get in to play a DH, I was just using common sense remembering the last time realms started failing hard was when the game had 10M people logging in for MoP. But whatever makes you feel better.

You are still wrong no matter how many numbers you make up. There are way more people SPEAKING in favor of flight than against. But that isn''t the point. Point is you have no clue or evidence on how many people really like flight so much that they did quit over. Not even a hint. More so, all hints available on that matter point to the opposite direction: there are and have been enough to make a change.

No telling i will happen, but hope that the info about what effected them to change stance on that matter will never see the light of day...... someone might call you out for being ignorant/stupid or even worse.

[RobertMugabe]

No, that is not what I just posted.

I said in areas where ground mounts can't reach the holes in the geometry a flying mount could and thus they have to go back to fix that.

CRZ bugs have been plentiful since launch and that is without flying.

Can you give an example?

At this point I realize you don't even known what you are talking about and are not even reading what people are positing the last ten pages.

I was only commenting the 2nd part of your last post... I had the same Feeling about you when I read your first post

[Ordinator]

Can you give an example?

He can't. All of Mafic's arguments hinge on speculation and hear-say because he doesn't actually play the game. Therefore, they shouldn't ever be taken seriously.

[Mafic]

Maybe not, but the way how you use arguments is pretty much to be defined as "tunnelvision". By the way.... i am not protesting. I am discussing a topic in the appropriate thread. I enjoyed the game too since 2005 but that doesn't mean i have to play it all the time. And i am not "refusing" to play this game over a travel mechanic. I just looked at many aspects of this expansions and deem then to make the game be less fun than i had before, that's why i decided it is not worth my money. Besides... for people with no to very limited imagination this is only about a travel mode. For me it is a tool to have fun and enjoy the game my way.

....refuse to play a game... maybe you picked the wrong word unintentionally, but using "refuse" in this context is a little problematic. Makes the sentence sound as if it came from an addict, or someone that is used to be told and dictated to what they have to like. But in reality its more like "i refuse to pay them money for something i know won't be as much fun as i want it to be, so i don't buy their product".

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You are still wrong no matter how many numbers you make up. There are way more people SPEAKING in favor of flight than against. But that isn''t the point. Point is you have no clue or evidence on how many people really like flight so much that they did quit over. Not even a hint. More so, all hints available on that matter point to the opposite direction: there are and have been enough to make a change.

I am not willing to hand over money for an expansion and sub so I have the delight of waiting for them to open flight "mid expansion" and even then that might take another month to unlock. Bllizzard has to face reality of a subscription MMORPG like WoW where they can't over do time gating or else it makes the choice easy for me and many other players to fly away to another MMO.

I can go to a free 2 play or buy 2 play MMO and have flying on tap without any stringing along and minimal time and money investment on my end. Does Blizzard arrogantly believe gating flying will make me want it more when it is finally available? I know one person that said even with flying back in WoD they were not returning. I did not understand that person's position at the time as flying was returned as a compromise was reached in WoD with pathfinder. Shouldn't that satisfy their demands? That person confided in me that it was not flying in WoD that concerned them but how they would handle it in the future. It seems that person's sage advice has come to fruition thus far and they are being proven right as each month passes on by in Legion. I started to shift toward that person's position when they announced Legion patchfinder would be split up with only part 1 available. The opportunity costs of waiting for WoW to put in flying simply is becoming punitive versus having on tap flying in other MMOs for a fraction of the cost as a consumer. I am literally paying less money currently and having just as much flying around in other MMO than WoW. Blizzard should be bending over backwards to have me return but instead they are dragging their feet (again) which is very similar to WoD. In before someone tells me that Legion will be different lol.

In truth if they start spamming my email box with come back to WoW I will simply make a phone call to tell them to stop spamming my email inbox till flying is concretely in the game and even then it has to be under reasonable terms that favors the players not Blizzard devs.