[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Hanede]

Apparently they fixed Bonus Armor from trinkets and potions and such to no longer get multiplied by Ironfur. So much for immortality.

Is that so? I just bought the Darkmoon Deck today but haven't used it yet, would I be better off reselling it?

[Valkon]

Apparently they fixed Bonus Armor from trinkets and potions and such to no longer get multiplied by Ironfur. So much for immortality.

Eww.... can anybody confirm?

[Celin]

I have no idea on which trinkets to use either.. I got the Darkmoon Immortality, Unbridled Fury ilvl 865 and the Phantasmal Echo ilvl 865 + socket

[Bearygood]

Eww.... can anybody confirm?

This please

[Nevcairiel]

Eww.... can anybody confirm?

Confirmed, at least darkmoon now applies after Ironfur and is not modified by it.

[Hanede]

So is it still worth having?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

So is it still worth having?

Yes ofcourse. It just won't scale anymore.
Previously the trinket became more useful the more gear you got, because it meant more stacks of ironfur through haste etc.
It just doesn't outscale higher ilvl trinkets anymore I guess. BUt more deeper math should figure that out.

[Fyros]

Still should be one of the top survival trinkets, just wont scale as well. Thats assuming there is better to be had down the road.

Realistically, it had to be done before it got absurd.

[Sounder]

Apparently they fixed Bonus Armor from trinkets and potions and such to no longer get multiplied by Ironfur. So much for immortality.

Link source?

[Mandibleclaw]

I knew it's gonna happen, exactly right after I sink 55K into it.

[Bearygood]

I knew it's gonna happen, exactly right after I sink 55K into it.

This basically

[Rioo]

I knew it's gonna happen, exactly right after I sink 55K into it.

I had like 4 days with it. Still worth using though, especially if you're like me and never get any good trinket drops.

[Mandibleclaw]

I had like 4 days with it. Still worth using though, especially if you're like me and never get any good trinket drops.

I had 1 day with it, not kidding. And i actually had the Xavius trinket and the Ichor trinket. I feel extremely pissed/disappointed.

[Seditian]

I wouldn't call it a "fix", just a plain ol' nerf. Something this big doesn't get "fixed" after 6 weeks.

[Dreyen]

darkmoon, even after the nerf, is still extremely strong. To nerf it was completly fair and expected.

[Deleted]

"Ironfur no longer incorrectly multiplies Bonus Armor effects from temporary buffs." (source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...ober-13/#post1)

The problem I have with this "fix" is that I dont think this effect is "temporary buff". Its passive trinket effect which works in combat, all the time. Its a piece of gear that gives random armor values...its just a nerf for guardians...whats next, ironfur will no longer incorrectly multiply bonus armor from chest? Then legs? Not increasing armor from potion sounds fair.

Maybe it got hit by nerf-hammer because mechanically it may work as temporary buff...dunno.

[Nevcairiel]

The problem I have with this "fix" is that I dont think this effect is "temporary buff". Its passive trinket effect which works in combat, all the time. Its a piece of gear that gives random armor values...its just a nerf for guardians...whats next, ironfur will no longer incorrectly multiply bonus armor from chest? Then legs? Not increasing armor from potion sounds fair.

Maybe it got hit by nerf-hammer because mechanically it may work as temporary buff...dunno.

How exactly the trinket is implemented is irrelevant - its still a temporary armor increase beyond the base armor of .. armor. Temporary doesn't have to mean 10 seconds. They could've given the armor buff an expiry timer until the next re-shuffle, would it then be temporary enough, while working the same way?

In any case, there is no doubt that DMC was way too strong for bears before, and the change is justified. It does about the same now for us then it does for other tanks, armor wise. It was way too easy to get to 85% armor cap, and we're still in the first raid tier.

DMC is still a strong trinket for bears, but at least it may not be unbeaten until 7.4 or something now, which is always a silly situation to be in.

[roi]

The "10000" breakpoint commonly quoted for mastery vs versatility only applies to plain solo survival, right? Ignores personal bonus damage dealt as well as healing increase from third parties (healers) via mastery? Pretty much a useless, misleading number.

At which point (if ever) does versatility beat mastery damage wise? Assuming survival, the extra versatility also would have to make up for the missing healing taken, have fun "calculating" that one hah. Can amount to 5-10 million healing in a mythic raid boss fight right now. The actual value of mastery is much higher than plain solo survival. Then again, it's not like we have much choices when it comes to gear right now, ilvl always wins.

Unrelated: Found a Sephuz, doesn't proc off thrash slow, but works with bash, incap roar, and most importantly wild charge, which is not too bad in dungeons, swiping can feel surprisingly smooth.

[Nevcairiel]

The "10000" breakpoint commonly quoted for mastery vs versatility only applies to plain solo survival, right? Ignores personal bonus damage dealt as well as healing increase from third parties (healers) via mastery? Pretty much a useless, misleading number.

At which point (if ever) does versatility beat mastery damage wise? Assuming survival, the extra versatility also would have to make up for the missing healing taken, have fun "calculating" that one hah. Can amount to 5-10 million healing in a mythic raid boss fight right now. The actual value of mastery is much higher than plain solo survival. Then again, it's not like we have much choices when it comes to gear right now, ilvl always wins.

Versa is generally always stronger DPS wise.

As for healing - the extra healing from Mastery is actually accounted for in these numbers. Mastery doesn't reduce the damage you take, it just makes it so you have the appropriate health buffer and increased healing to compensate it. You take more damage, and receive more healing to compensate. If you were to take less damage from Versa, you also need less healing. Mastery does not offer a healing bonus beyond this - only the appropriate amount to compensate for the extra damage you take.

There is various posts that explain this entire situation:

Original Post:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42231364

Quick Summary to sum it up for someone else:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42676142

In short, the extra healing you take from Mastery is just there to compensate for the extra health you have, because it doesn't actually reduce the damage you take, so you don't become a mana sponge.
Versatility instead reduces the damage you take, which also means you would never have needed the extra healing in the first place.

The end result is quite similar, you can take more damage before you die. Versa just increases this slightly more once you go above the threshhold.

[Deleted]

How exactly the trinket is implemented is irrelevant - its still a temporary armor increase beyond the base armor of .. armor. Temporary doesn't have to mean 10 seconds. They could've given the armor buff an expiry timer until the next re-shuffle, would it then be temporary enough, while working the same way?

In any case, there is no doubt that DMC was way too strong for bears before, and the change is justified. It does about the same now for us then it does for other tanks, armor wise. It was way too easy to get to 85% armor cap, and we're still in the first raid tier.

DMC is still a strong trinket for bears, but at least it may not be unbeaten until 7.4 or something now, which is always a silly situation to be in.

to me it is not temporary if its always there, current design of the trinket is just to make it not 100% boring shit, as we saw some trinkets in the past giving like +200 stamina +200 armor or something. The effect even says "equip". It would be the same thing if it gave some fixed 750 armor (I think that could be mathemathically a middle ground) but instead they decided to give it some RNG so if a player wants to track and utilize it for 100% performance he/she can do so.

No, giving it like 10 sec buff and then another 10 sec buff of different magnitude would not make it temporary, temporary would be like a proc chance once every 2 minutes or something. This is literally "on equip" effect that is active all the time with certain mathemathical middle ground value, from this design point of view it is supposed to give you flat X armor at all times (the reason it works how it works now is written above).

These trinkets are really powerfull for many classes and they are not touching those. Thats why i guess its more of how this particular effect works rather than targeted nerf for bears.