Are you confused about what trinkets are best for you? What is actually an upgrade?

[smaktat]

You're not alone.

[Freedom]

IDK why the fuck they made so many of the 5 man trinkets god tier for melee and the raid ones garbage. 840 Faulty Countermeasure > 865 Ursoc's Rending Paw for Frost DK just as an example. Most of the EN trinkets are hot garbage, with things like Ravaged Seed Pod better for tanking than they are for DPS... What happened to the days of things like DBW and Soul Capacitor? Or even Grim Toll from Naxx 25? It wasn't WORSE than Meteorite Whetstone.

[Dahti]

IDK why the fuck they made so many of the 5 man trinkets god tier for melee and the raid ones garbage. 840 Faulty Countermeasure > 865 Ursoc's Rending Paw for Frost DK just as an example. Most of the EN trinkets are hot garbage, with things like Ravaged Seed Pod better for tanking than they are for DPS... What happened to the days of things like DBW and Soul Capacitor? Or even Grim Toll from Naxx 25? It wasn't WORSE than Meteorite Whetstone.

Using faulty cm over an 870 ursoc's tickling paw atm. IIRC there was a time EN trinkets were actually good

[smaktat]

IDK why the fuck they made so many of the 5 man trinkets god tier for melee and the raid ones garbage. 840 Faulty Countermeasure > 865 Ursoc's Rending Paw for Frost DK just as an example. Most of the EN trinkets are hot garbage, with things like Ravaged Seed Pod better for tanking than they are for DPS... What happened to the days of things like DBW and Soul Capacitor? Or even Grim Toll from Naxx 25? It wasn't WORSE than Meteorite Whetstone.

Pretty much BiS fir mage trinket comes from a World Quest lol

[kary]

ITT people don't sim or understand statweights.

[smaktat]

ITT people don't sim or understand statweights.

ITT you who didn't watch the video. To summarize, this pertains to the average player who shouldn't need to use external resources to play. If a piece of gear @iL 870 drops and you have an 835, should be common sense since the game is so weighted around item level. If the game were less item level focused it'd be a different story. Preach makes many additional points to support the credibility of this statement. TL;DR: Watch the video, it's a good state of the game summary.

[kary]

ITT you who didn't watch the video. To summarize, this pertains to the average player who shouldn't need to use external resources to play. If a piece of gear @iL 870 drops and you have an 835, should be common sense since the game is so weighted around item level. If the game were less item level focused it'd be a different story. Preach makes many additional points to support the credibility of this statement. TL;DR: Watch the video, it's a good state of the game summary.

I watched the video, days ago.
Not everything is an upgrade. If stats are bad for you, it isn't going to be an upgrade.
That has always been the case in this game, more so now than before because they made secondary stats important again, you know, so you'd actually take a second to look at what you equip

For instance. My hunter literally has mastery on every item. Both specs I play benefit greatly from mastery. Would I take an item 30 ilvls without mastery? No. Why? Because mastery > primary stat.
Take a second and educate yaself. And you could always just make an ilvl set and switch to properly itemized gear if you need to have a high ilvl that badly. But yeah, l2p, learn to gear as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The thought process now is
Ilvl >>>>>>
It should be
Stat prio > Ilvl >>>>

[Dahti]

I watched the video, days ago.
Not everything is an upgrade. If stats are bad for you, it isn't going to be an upgrade.
That has always been the case in this game, more so now than before because they made secondary stats important again, you know, so you'd actually take a second to look at what you equip

For instance. My hunter literally has mastery on every item. Both specs I play benefit greatly from mastery. Would I take an item 30 ilvls without mastery? No. Why? Because mastery > primary stat.
Take a second and educate yaself. And you could always just make an ilvl set and switch to properly itemized gear if you need to have a high ilvl that badly. But yeah, l2p, learn to gear as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The thought process now is
Ilvl >>>>>>
It should be
Stat prio > Ilvl >>>>

It depends on the class/spec and wether or not you have soft caps really.. stat weights can actually change as you gear as well.

[kary]

It depends on the class/spec and wether or not you have soft caps really.. stat weights can actually change as you gear as well.

For what classes?
Every class I'm aware of stacks their #1 stat in as many places as possible.
MM, BM, Arms, warlock specs, mages, rogues, DH, monk, druids (all specs), shadow priests.
Soft caps aren't really a thing. People like to gear to a comfortable level of haste and then go back to their main stat, but there are no soft caps for things like extra ticks of dots. Some people like having CDS (only some classes have haste reduced cds) to a certain point but again, no way mandatory.

Some talents do affect your stat weights, which would affect the way you gear. DKs are the only class that does this that I'm aware of.

[Crewsix]

For instance. My hunter literally has mastery on every item. Both specs I play benefit greatly from mastery. Would I take an item 30 ilvls without mastery? No. Why? Because mastery > primary stat.
Take a second and educate yaself. And you could always just make an ilvl set and switch to properly itemized gear if you need to have a high ilvl that badly. But yeah, l2p, learn to gear as well.

The thought process now is
Ilvl >>>>>>
It should be
Stat prio > Ilvl >>>>

This worked a lot better a long time ago before Ilvl and gear score was a thing. This is the first expansion I can remember where secondary stats were this important for so many classes. Maybe this will get fixed over time as primary stats increase at a greater rate compared to secondaries but at least for the first set of raids it will continue to be an issue.

It is bad design to have gear from a higher difficulty with a higher Ilvl be significantly worse than gear from a lower difficulty with a lower Ilvl

[kary]

This worked a lot better a long time ago before Ilvl and gear score was a thing. This is the first expansion I can remember where secondary stats were this important for so many classes. Maybe this will get fixed over time as primary stats increase at a greater rate compared to secondaries but at least for the first set of raids it will continue to be an issue.

It is bad design to have gear from a higher difficulty with a higher Ilvl be significantly worse than gear from a lower difficulty with a lower Ilvl

No, it's not bad design for gear that's not intended for your spec/class to be bad for you.
Why would you, as a critjunkie fire mage, wear haste/versatility pants ever?

[Alvito]

It was easy enough to figure out what to use if you compare equal item levels, but with how much that can vary it can get tricky. The real pisser is how awful EN gear is for so many classes and specs. Nighthold needs to come soon or raids are going to atrophy as people keep realizing they are putting in a lot of effort, time and consumables for next to no reward.

[Poisongaz]

IDK why the fuck they made so many of the 5 man trinkets god tier for melee and the raid ones garbage. 840 Faulty Countermeasure > 865 Ursoc's Rending Paw for Frost DK just as an example. Most of the EN trinkets are hot garbage, with things like Ravaged Seed Pod better for tanking than they are for DPS... What happened to the days of things like DBW and Soul Capacitor? Or even Grim Toll from Naxx 25? It wasn't WORSE than Meteorite Whetstone.

To your point about asking what happened to the days of soul Capacitor and the like. these types of trinkets have historic broken certain class. Like there are so many examples from this games history where a spec or class is in line with the rest and then boom, they get one trinket and all of a sudden their spec is broken. And what has blizzard done in those cases? nerfed the class not the trinket. They nerf the spec/class because nerfing the trinket would pull everyone one down that is using it instead of the one broken class? However when they nerf the class, they make the class shit comparatively to the other classes if you dont have that trinket.

At least in this world where the power lvl of most trinkets is lower they dont have to make those choices. However I wil say that it is really annoying that the better trinkets are in the non-raid content. However there are other forms of end game progression content now and those also need there good loot. But mythic+ is based off the original loot tables of the dungeons and just giving ilvl to most trinkets isnt gonna do much.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I wish he had picked a different type of gear to show that the ilvl system is getting out of control. With trinkets, even when you are using simcraft correctly, you still cant really know much about different trinkets and it is very obvious that blizzard fucked up the power level progression of trinkets in many cases. I would have wanted to use rings or necklaces as a good example. Because they dont give main stats anymore, which was the main draw to higher ilvl jewelry in the past. Now, depending on the spec, the stats on the ring/necklace are much more important and it is very easy to keep a ring/necklace that has your best stats for a long time. I feel that do a better job of getting the point across while avoiding other problems.

[melodramocracy]

ITT people don't sim or understand statweights.

That anyone feels the need to points to poor game management IMO, though I suppose most things can be figured out with simply trial and error.

[kary]

That anyone feels the need to points to poor game management IMO, though I suppose most things can be figured out with simply trial and error.

Eh.
Take for instance fire mage.
2 crits back to back make your next proc spec that does a lot of damage instant cast.
Mastery gives you additional damage
haste makes you cast filler spells quicker
versatility gives you a small % boost to damage.

You'd want crit more than any other stat, not so? Free spell that does more damage than my other spell? Sign me up!

Hunters.
MM, mastery increases the damage your abilities do by a flat %
Crit doesn't do anything special
Haste reduces the CD on your focus generating ability
Versa gives you a small % boost to damage

You'd want more mastery than any other stat, and haste as your second focus stat.

BM hunter!
Mastery increases pet damage
Haste reduces the cd on dire beast and improves focus regen
crit gives you a 25% chance on autoshot to reset dire beast cd
Versa gives you a small % boost to damage

You'd want mastery, then a lot of haste, with a slight peppering of crit.

Shit's not hard.

[smaktat]

That anyone feels the need to points to poor game management IMO, though I suppose most things can be figured out with simply trial and error.

And that's exactly the point of the video.

I watched the video, days ago.
Not everything is an upgrade. If stats are bad for you, it isn't going to be an upgrade.
That has always been the case in this game, more so now than before because they made secondary stats important again, you know, so you'd actually take a second to look at what you equip

For instance. My hunter literally has mastery on every item. Both specs I play benefit greatly from mastery. Would I take an item 30 ilvls without mastery? No. Why? Because mastery > primary stat.
Take a second and educate yaself. And you could always just make an ilvl set and switch to properly itemized gear if you need to have a high ilvl that badly. But yeah, l2p, learn to gear as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The thought process now is
Ilvl >>>>>>
It should be
Stat prio > Ilvl >>>>

You missed the point. While considering secondaries is important, the amount of weight put on Item Level and its relevancy to playing the game is what screws with this. That was the message in the video. No need to throw insults either. Shit's not nice.

[kary]

And that's exactly the point of the video.



You missed the point. While considering secondaries is important, the amount of weight put on Item Level and its relevancy to playing the game is what screws with this. That was the message in the video. No need to throw insults either. Shit's not nice.

Get an ilvl set. problem solved.

[Kantalope]

Eh.
Take for instance fire mage.
2 crits back to back make your next proc spec that does a lot of damage instant cast.
Mastery gives you additional damage
haste makes you cast filler spells quicker
versatility gives you a small % boost to damage.

You'd want crit more than any other stat, not so? Free spell that does more damage than my other spell? Sign me up!

Hunters.
MM, mastery increases the damage your abilities do by a flat %
Crit doesn't do anything special
Haste reduces the CD on your focus generating ability
Versa gives you a small % boost to damage

You'd want more mastery than any other stat, and haste as your second focus stat.

BM hunter!
Mastery increases pet damage
Haste reduces the cd on dire beast and improves focus regen
crit gives you a 25% chance on autoshot to reset dire beast cd
Versa gives you a small % boost to damage

You'd want mastery, then a lot of haste, with a slight peppering of crit.

Shit's not hard.

Now try ret paladin and see if you get it right without looking up stat weights.

Hint, ~40% of our damage is TV, and mastery increases the damage TV does when the target is judged (should be 100% uptime).

[smaktat]

Get an ilvl set. problem solved.

This guy... yes, that is the workaround to the larger problem. That average player is immediately drawn to Item Level due to the nature of the game. The greater issue is solved in the some of the solutions Preach provided. Maybe you watched the video, but in no way did you understand it.

[kary]

Now try ret paladin and see if you get it right without looking up stat weights.

Hint, ~40% of our damage is TV, and mastery increases the damage TV does when the target is judged (should be 100% uptime).

I would imagine mastery wouldn't be high, since leveling my paladin the judgement debuff never had 100% uptime, and you could only do so many TVs.
with only 40% of your damage being affected by mastery, I would wager that haste/versatility or haste/crit would be your preferred secondary stats, since haste reduces the cd on CS (more tv) and versatility is just a flat damage increase. Main stat would prob be at/above haste.

So str=haste > versa = crit > mastery? or Str >versa= haste > crit > mastery.

- - - Updated - - -

This guy... yes, that is the workaround to the larger problem. That average player is immediately drawn to Item Level due to the nature of the game. The greater issue is solved in the some of the solutions Preach provided. Maybe you watched the video, but in no way did you understand it.

I 100% understood it, but preach makes videos for people like you that don't research or optimize their toons. Preach's videos aren't targeted towards 100% of the playerbase.