26 Traits, AK8 - When's the best time to restart AP grind?

[Deleted]

You think getting a 5% damage boost is negligible? If you do 300k single target, thats a 15k boost for putting in a point. If you raid in a 20 man, thats 14-15 dps all getting that? 225k more raid dps. Which is almost another person.
No, it totally makes a difference.

Which raid are we talking about? EN was cleared just fine without fully maxed artifacts and NH isn't going to be around until early 2017.
Why does it matter? It really doesn't. At all. The content is clearable without it.

Setting arbitrary goals in the game is just fine if you feel like being a competitionist and chasing perfect numbers, but for intended gameplay it does fuck all.

[Aggrophobic]

When you're questing? Doesn't make any practical difference.
When in dungeons? Doesn't make any practical difference.
When raiding? Doesn't make any practical difference.

Ehm? What?
More damage does not make a difference?
Why do you even wear gear then?

If all you do is LFR then I'm sure you'll be fine of course.

[Sarevokcz]

Which raid are we talking about? EN was cleared just fine without fully maxed artifacts and NH isn't going to be around until early 2017.
Why does it matter? It really doesn't. At all. The content is clearable without it.

Setting arbitrary goals in the game is just fine if you feel like being a competitionist and chasing perfect numbers, but for intended gameplay it does fuck all.

just because SOME people can clear it without it doesnt mean its insignificant, legendarties arent required either, yet world first guilds had majority of people with one of them. why? because it HELPS

also even if its not that important in mythic EN, running mythic 15 for the skin is gonna be alot easier if you do 5-10% more damage

[Alvito]

Not really mathy, but some outlook from Ask Mr Robot(yes, this gets posted everywhere, I know I know):



My Point being, that grinding it is not "worth" it, since it's exponentiell more AP you need. Only with higher AK it gets better. This is no accident, Blizzard wants you to keep subbed .

Just do your daily hc, all the WQs, the occasional mythic+, lfr and normal/hc Raids, and you'll have an 34 Artifact around December, and the full maxed 54 around March.

Even grinding hc's and m+'s nonstop won't get there considerably faster, maybe some days at most. IMHO, not worth it - AK is just too powerful, and the deciding factor.

No reason to post that graph since it is a guess at AP pace and nothing more. With all the ways people were getting AP from mythic+ and other sources that chart was blown out of the water. Really all it is good for is showing you if you put points into another weapon where you would be with that or could be just hammering them all into one weapon.

[Deleted]

Ehm? What?
More damage does not make a difference?
Why do you even wear gear then?

Jesus Christ.

If you haven't cleared mythic by now you most likely should prioritize completely different things than chasing a tiny bit of DPS.

You need some gear (duh) but you mostly need good strat, cohesive team and players who can execute mechanics. Concentrate on improving those instead of whining about some silly DPS percentage.

or

Keep chasing that 5% and still keep wiping because your raiders keep standing in fire.
It's a silly discussion. Use your AP when you get it and stop worrying about sub-optimizing things that are very low priority to your raid. Triage correctly.

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just because SOME people can clear it without it doesnt mean its insignificant, legendarties arent required either, yet world first guilds had majority of people with one of them. why? because it HELPS

Yes, exactly my point. They have their priorities right. They have good strats, good leaders who put in the necessary research on PTR and they have good players who can execute at high level. *After* that is done, advantages in gear can make a difference in being number 1 or being a failure.

Triage correctly.

[Levyan]

Which raid are we talking about? EN was cleared just fine without fully maxed artifacts and NH isn't going to be around until early 2017.
Why does it matter? It really doesn't. At all. The content is clearable without it.

That's a poor argument. Looking at cutting edge guilds as a standard is like comparing pros to amateurs like"Tiger Woods can do it it, so we can reasonably expect Joe Average to do it too".

[Deleted]

That's a poor argument. Looking at cutting edge guilds as a standard is like comparing pros to amateurs like"Tiger Woods can do it it, so we can reasonably expect Joe Average to do it too".

Yes, but if Joe Average wants to get better, maybe training their swing is better choice than running to the shop and buying the most expensive club they can find?

But I get it, it's no use to debate - I'm sure there is mathematically optimal way to use your AP's. I'm sure someone will post the spreadsheet that you all must slavishly follow soon. I'm sure you will all become awesome 7/7M raiders with the spreadsheet and your optimal 4.47% DPS increases it gives.

In the meanwhile, I think I'm done with this debate, my head hurts.

[Sarevokcz]

Yes, exactly my point. They have their priorities right. They have good strats, good leaders who put in the necessary research on PTR and they have good players who can execute at high level. *After* that is done, advantages in gear can make a difference in being number 1 or being a failure.

Triage correctly.

but that dps increase helps regardless of skill level you play at. if your guild isnt killing ursoc because of dps, then extra dps is better than no extra dps and it doesnt matter if its normal, heroic or mythic, also better dps means less time for something to go wrong, less strain on healers etc. saying its insignificant for anyone below top X guilds is just wrong.

[Levyan]

Yes, but if Joe Average wants to get better, maybe training their swing is better choice than running to the shop and buying the most expensive club they can find?

But I get it, it's no use to debate - I'm sure there is mathematically optimal way to use your AP's. I'm sure someone will post the spreadsheet that you all must slavishly follow soon. I'm sure you will all become awesome 7/7M raiders with the spreadsheet.

In the meanwhile, I think I'm done with this debate, my head hurts.

The expensive clubs may not make Joe perfect, but it will help if it gets rid of that horrendous slice! Okay, enough with bad golf references.

Agreed though, that a lot focus too much on their gear, rather than working as a team.

[Aggrophobic]

Jesus Christ.

If you haven't cleared mythic by now you most likely should prioritize completely different things than chasing a tiny bit of DPS.

You need some gear (duh) but you mostly need good strat, cohesive team and players who can execute mechanics. Concentrate on improving those instead of whining about some silly DPS percentage.

or

Keep chasing that 5% and still keep wiping because your raiders keep standing in fire.
It's a silly discussion. Use your AP when you get it and stop worrying about sub-optimizing things that are very low priority to your raid. Triage correctly.

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Yes, exactly my point. They have their priorities right. They have good strats, good leaders who put in the necessary research on PTR and they have good players who can execute at high level. *After* that is done, advantages in gear can make a difference in being number 1 or being a failure.

Triage correctly.

If you haven't cleared EN yet you need every bit of help you can get.
The 5% extra damage will no doubt help.

You're right of course, that strategy and things like this matters more. There is no doubt there but saying extra damage won't help is silly.

You get guaranteed increase in damage by going after more AP. The same can not be said for gear, with the RNG and that.

[purebalance]

Except it didn't fail, Artifact progression is intended to last a good while and not be done in a few weeks, not even if your the super hardcore world first type of player.

In around 6 months time (if there are no additional speedups coming in future patches like higher AK rewards, or higher AK level) you can have 54 Main and 34 off with a normal pace (hardcore players will get there a bit faster), another 10 to 12 weeks later you will have 54 and 54 unlocked and anoter 10 to 12 weeks later you can have 54/54/54 meaning you can get all 3 arti's fully leveled in less than a year. Seeing that patch 7.2 might provide even more speedups there is a good chance it will be considerably less.

Honestly with some classes doing 54 in all 3 is a waste at the moment. Locks for example might as well put almost all in destro and a little in demo since affliction is just trash tier and demo is meh. There are other classes like this. Or for hybrids when you don't want to heal/dps/tank.

[Brubear]

Honestly with some classes doing 54 in all 3 is a waste at the moment. Locks for example might as well put almost all in destro and a little in demo since affliction is just trash tier and demo is meh. There are other classes like this. Or for hybrids when you don't want to heal/dps/tank.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I could swear that Exorsius had 2 Demo locks in their WF clear.

[chronia]

Honestly with some classes doing 54 in all 3 is a waste at the moment. Locks for example might as well put almost all in destro and a little in demo since affliction is just trash tier and demo is meh. There are other classes like this. Or for hybrids when you don't want to heal/dps/tank.

At this moment it probably is of might feel like it is, however after one is filled out completely at whatever pace you play at, you will just keep getting AP, which you need to put somewhere. So even if you don't intend on using a spec, somewhere during the expansion it will get filled up, unless you stop playing completely.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I could swear that Exorsius had 2 Demo locks in their WF clear.

They had 2 in their roster, but they sat out / played other classes on most bosses i think, on Xavius they deffo did not have any locks.

Yeah, I just don't see me ever completing one, let alone 3 artefacts on a class. With my shadow priest I will probably quit around lv 26 or 27. I mean, getting to 34 seems already insane, and that unlocks this extra 20/20 artefact trait, right? The one that I don't even yet see on my weapon, only in calculators? And since that eventually increases your damage by 100% - it definitely seems like sth that at least raiders or Mythic+ runners will invest in.

So your 34th trait will be at 1 6000 000 AP and then that extra button that goes 20/20 unlocks, terminating at 65 MILLION AP for 20/20.

GL everyone

At this moment it might seem insane, but remember that in a month or 2 AK will have stacked to level 25 which provides nearly 25000% more AP compared to the 500% more AP the current common AK level (8) on mains gives, making those higher levels just as manageable as going from 23 to 24 (for example) is today, when you stay on curve (or below) the AP grind is not that slow, however when you get ahead of the curve (getting to higher weapons levels faster when low AK) it starts to slowdown alot, which is the point where the game tells you, take a break from forcefully grinding AP till your AK level has catched up.

[apples]

No reason to post that graph since it is a guess at AP pace and nothing more. With all the ways people were getting AP from mythic+ and other sources that chart was blown out of the water. Really all it is good for is showing you if you put points into another weapon where you would be with that or could be just hammering them all into one weapon.

i know the font is small so you may need to put on your glasses

but thats not what the chart aims to be at all

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Which means? Running heroics / mythics for the attached AP reward? I mean, the WQs eventually stop to refresh / add new ones after you did like 10 of them and then it takes some time for them to slowly pop pack up. Have to check, but at AK 6, I think I make 5-8k k AP from WQs.

So atm it is like 4 days to get my weapon upgraded (need 39 k AP)

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Well, the way I understood SharkLazorz is, that yes...while everything matters, you are now wasting your time like a madman chasing artefact power which is at an insane level and costs time like crazy, when really you could be perfecting your strat (aka - not stand in fire) in the same time. Like DO NOT spend 100 hrs collecting the tiny dps increase that brute forces an encounter, but spend 20 hrs in a raid, wiping and getting your shit right.

But at the end of the day, everyone gets to play the game as they like. And we have the "skill matters" vs "gear matters" debate. Oh well, in the case of the world first race it then went from "How can US not beat EU with a head start when all are similar geared, is it skill" to "No, all europeans are unemployed and get paid welfare, so they can play non-stop and russians cheat anyhow"

So not only do we get to play the game as we want, we also get to make our own little world. OP now has several different answers to his questions and can chose what works best for him.

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Yeah, I just don't see me ever completing one, let alone 3 artefacts on a class. With my shadow priest I will probably quit around lv 26 or 27. I mean, getting to 34 seems already insane, and that unlocks this extra 20/20 artefact trait, right? The one that I don't even yet see on my weapon, only in calculators? And since that eventually increases your damage by 100% - it definitely seems like sth that at least raiders or Mythic+ runners will invest in.

So your 34th trait will be at 1 6000 000 AP and then that extra button that goes 20/20 unlocks, terminating at 65 MILLION AP for 20/20.

GL everyone

at max AK a junky WQ item will give 75k

youll need 866 of um

at max AK a M+10 will give 300k

youll need 109 runs

kek

[Cosmic Janitor]

I have 27 now and I will take a break with my main weapon and focus on the blood one. 240k is too annoying to keep doing at the current level and there are way more juicy talents for the tank spec available. Saying that getting a good amount of the points early isn't worth it is kinda bogus though, at least if you want to be a semi decent raider.

[Spray]

It will remain a nightmare from start to finish.

Failed concept is failed. But eventually, by the end of the expansion, you might be able to max out all 3 weapons. With like AK 50 xD

The BiS obsessives are here after just 2 posts.

Uninformed as well, AK max level is 25 (and likely it will stay that way).

[TheRabidDeer]

Which means? Running heroics / mythics for the attached AP reward? I mean, the WQs eventually stop to refresh / add new ones after you did like 10 of them and then it takes some time for them to slowly pop pack up. Have to check, but at AK 6, I think I make 5-8k k AP from WQs.

So atm it is like 4 days to get my weapon upgraded (need 39 k AP)

If you are geared and can easily 3 chest +7 mythic you get like 10k AP per run with AK8 and that is with 15-20 minutes of work.

[Deleted]

You get 5% extra healing per point as a healer so yeah... thats just as strong.

Huh? When you mouse over it it only shows you get extra stamina and extra damage done? And 5% per healing is nuts, time to start farming after all if that is true!

[Lioo]

Will do my offspec weapons after 27th trait. Will return to my main weapon after AK 12 i guess.
Fire mage.

[Spray]

Jesus Christ.

If you haven't cleared mythic by now you most likely should prioritize completely different things than chasing a tiny bit of DPS.

You need some gear (duh) but you mostly need good strat, cohesive team and players who can execute mechanics. Concentrate on improving those instead of whining about some silly DPS percentage.

or

Keep chasing that 5% and still keep wiping because your raiders keep standing in fire.
It's a silly discussion. Use your AP when you get it and stop worrying about sub-optimizing things that are very low priority to your raid. Triage correctly.

Heh, this is great. +1

I have a feeling that 95% of so-called-elite players who complain about sub-optimal stuff in Legion regarding high-end raiding don't even raid as much as they claim they are, or at least not at that level.

You could whine about Artifacts, weird stat priorities, itemization, legendaries, class imbalance, whatever, yet Exorsus along with multiple other guilds (not only world-class legends) hit 7/7M in the first days, shitting at everybody - basically showing us that all the whine about aforementioned stuff is moot.

A bad workman blames his tools.