Is the 30% damage taken even a liability for Fury?

[Zakkar]

In my opinion this is just a big trap for those with less experience. They just see the 30% and think "What? He'll die from the slightest bit of damage, no way he gets into the raid!". I think this moves away focus from the actual issues with fury and some refuse to play the spec over such a trivial thing. I mean the extra health and bloodthirst is factored in to make it work.

People are talking about unavoidable damage such as Nythendra and Ursoc, I've fought them plenty of times (as well as Elerethe, 3/7 so far) in mythic and I've had no issues whatsoever. Unavoidable damage isn't meant to kill you on its own and it wont kill you as fury either, the damage increase punishes you for making mistakes, taking avoidable damage. But in that case the mistake you made is the problem in the first place, not the damage debuff. I haven't had any issues in "deaths out of my control" on any of these bosses. So personally I think it's a thing most people take way to serious without realising that the difference is miniscule if so ever existing. However I can be wrong and I'd love to have a proper discussion on this and set the stone once and for all.

[Jakisuaki]

We may not die from it, but take a look at unavoidable damage taken for the entire raid and Fury will always be ontop in a decent group.

[S7orm]

Fury have an extra health-stick compared to other DPS so unavoidable damage isn't the issue, healing is what differs. Will it ever be a problem? Most probably not since bosses with spike damage will be overhealed anyway and bosses with constant pulsing AoE will be healed back with Bloodthirst

[Zakkar]

Well up to the point where it becomes an issue? I haven't been in a situation where my healers go "Zakkar you're taking too much damage, we can't handle healing this fight with you", and I haven't died from it either.

[cFortyfive]

No idea what the point is content is easy as fuck but you are still sponging up more heals and mana than others without bringing anything special.

[Anuibus]

Fury have an extra health-stick compared to other DPS so unavoidable damage isn't the issue, healing is what differs. Will it ever be a problem? Most probably not since bosses with spike damage will be overhealed anyway and bosses with constant pulsing AoE will be healed back with Bloodthirst

20% additional damage taken overpowers 20% additional health.

[Sanguiris]

Not sure in PvE but in pvp it's a huge deal. We nearly don't heal as much as other pure dps. We have 1 "real" which only counters the extra damage taken. We are extremely vulnerable. Having to always chose the shitty healing talents over the fun and good ones because we take so much damage. And the dps isn't even that good because even if we're already doing less damage than other classes in pve, the pvp template is reducing our strength by 20%.

Fury used to be one of the best classes in pvp before they did 3 things.

Reduced our strength in pvp by 20%
Reduced the healing of bloodthirst by 50% (which carried over to enraged regeneration) (Both have been reverted back)
Removed the pvp talent which reduced the CD of enraged regene to 30 sec but made it heal for 15% instead of 20%

[Schizoide]

Yes, it's a huge deal in PvP and a small one in PvE.

[Deleted]

I use it as an excuse when I die on mythic+. Not that of a big deal since we have larger hp pool.

In PvP is makes us trash though. Not only fury takes 30%(20%) more damage, has very weak defensive cooldowns, but also does not have defensive stance unlike arms. Which makes it the squishest spec in the game and probably the worst spec in competitive PvP.

[Eninya]

Instant damage mechanics are generally dangerous, but Fury ends up requiring more total healing to reach full health. Our self-healing off sets this, but in some situations it isn't a boon. Some mechanics, like Rot or Elerethe's poison, give time for Enrage to fall off, so we come out appearing sturdier than other classes against that.

[Zakkar]

[QUOTE=Sanguiris;42814130]Not sure in PvE but in pvp it's a huge deal.

Yeah in PvP it's a huge mess, the 30% damage taken is massive. I guess I should've been more clear but I am looking at it from a PvE perspective in regards to the 7.1 QnA where the one and only fury question that got through was a complaint that the 30% extra damage made us bad in PvE.

[DarkRonin00]

Mythic ursoc you become a liability to get one shot only because of this.

[Toppy]

Fury have an extra health-stick compared to other DPS so unavoidable damage isn't the issue, healing is what differs. Will it ever be a problem? Most probably not since bosses with spike damage will be overhealed anyway and bosses with constant pulsing AoE will be healed back with Bloodthirst

The extra health doesnt mean jack. In the end fury needs more healing than anyone else.

[xmr1]

Even if it wasn't a liability in any situation, just the potential for misconception alone outweighs any potential benefit from the "class fantasy" which I don't think it even adds to.

[Deleted]

Raiding isn't the only thing in this game, though. The +30% damage taken affects everything else as well, such as leveling, doing world quests, battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons, and so on.

[Schizoide]

Yep. And it is a liability in raiding, just a smaller one.

Fury certainly doesn't deal more damage than other specs to compensate for taking more damage. It can't, or raids would stack Fury.

That's why I suggested changing the enrage drawback from % damage taken to disabling dodge and parry combined with more self-healing when you do get hit by melee. This would essentially remove the drawback entirely in raiding, and compensate for it when solo and PvP, while maintaining the spec fantasy of a berserk warrior shrugging off wounds.

[Kahmal]

What I don't understand is that with such a liability Fury should naturally do far more damage then it currently does.

[Schizoide]

That will never happen because again, raids would just stack fury warriors. You don't get compensated for weakness, you just have to deal with it.

Not to imply that Fury doesn't need buffs-- it is very weak right now. Just that it can't do meaningfully more damage than other specs without that disadvantage.

[Matchu]

What I don't understand is that with such a liability Fury should naturally do far more damage then it currently does.

Or a reverse form of stagger, the extra damage you take is also applied as a dot to the enemy because you're so angry about it hitting you you fight back.

'Class fantasy'.

[Deleted]

Mythic ursoc you become a liability to get one shot only because of this.

This is the misconception he's referring to.

During Enrage I've got 3 million health (Battle Scars ahoy!), which means it takes a 2.5 million hit to kill me if I have Enrage up. There isn't a single guild member, except our tanks, that has over 2.5 million health unbuffed right now. What this means is that, on Mythic Ursoc, if I die to a legitimate "one-shot" so does anybody else taking that same damage.

Enrage is a potential problems if you're not being topped enough quick enough and for that reason I do believe Warriors should get slightly more healing received (would also buff Bloodthirst healing, slightly) when Enraged. This would lower the cost of having a Fury Warrior in the raid, and would help with some of the sustain issues experienced by Fury Warriors in solo content.

There is a potential problem to be had with our defensive cooldowns, but I personally think Enraged Regeneration is pretty strong for a personal.

EDIT: Should add that even without Battle Scars an enraged Fury Warrior still has higher effective health (assuming Warpaint, without it is about equal) than most. Warriors have roughly 30% more health than anybody else and there's no funny interaction (that I've seen anyway) that makes Fury squisher. The one problem with Enrage is not that we get oneshot, is that we need more healing (the "cost" of a Fury Warrior I mentioned above) and it's a pretty small one.