[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Deleted]

The "10000" breakpoint commonly quoted for mastery vs versatility only applies to plain solo survival, right? Ignores personal bonus damage dealt as well as healing increase from third parties (healers) via mastery? Pretty much a useless, misleading number.

At which point (if ever) does versatility beat mastery damage wise? Assuming survival, the extra versatility also would have to make up for the missing healing taken, have fun "calculating" that one hah. Can amount to 5-10 million healing in a mythic raid boss fight right now. The actual value of mastery is much higher than plain solo survival. Then again, it's not like we have much choices when it comes to gear right now, ilvl always wins.

Unrelated: Found a Sephuz, doesn't proc off thrash slow, but works with bash, incap roar, and most importantly wild charge, which is not too bad in dungeons, swiping can feel surprisingly smooth.

You could account healing as a direct and flat damage reduction after armor and versatility / increased by mastery. In that way the breakpoint does not move up or down. Just for the single purpose of unmitigable damage, mastery wins out (like http://www.wowhead.com/spell=161612/overflowing-energy )

[Seditian]

darkmoon, even after the nerf, is still extremely strong. To nerf it was completly fair and expected.

Yup, that's not what I'm saying though. It's an expected nerf. Keyword being "nerf".

E: And I know that's nitpicky to whine about it.

[Deleted]

The "10000" breakpoint commonly quoted for mastery vs versatility only applies to plain solo survival, right? Ignores personal bonus damage dealt as well as healing increase from third parties (healers) via mastery? Pretty much a useless, misleading number.

At which point (if ever) does versatility beat mastery damage wise? Assuming survival, the extra versatility also would have to make up for the missing healing taken, have fun "calculating" that one hah. Can amount to 5-10 million healing in a mythic raid boss fight right now. The actual value of mastery is much higher than plain solo survival. Then again, it's not like we have much choices when it comes to gear right now, ilvl always wins.

Unrelated: Found a Sephuz, doesn't proc off thrash slow, but works with bash, incap roar, and most importantly wild charge, which is not too bad in dungeons, swiping can feel surprisingly smooth.

The bonus healing from mastery is through healers is obviously accounted for. If you didn't, mastery isn't really a survivability increase. Having more HP doesn't make you more survivable in any meaningful way on most fights. The only thing not accounted for is the increased self healing with versatility, because it is tiny and probably not very relevant since we don't heal for that much. I really don't get what you refer to when saying "The actual value of mastery is much higher than plain solo survival", since the survival value of mastery is, that it increases your healing taken. The buff to your healthpool is just there so that it doesn't fall behind the damage reduction on very spiky fights. The only "non survival" value of mastery is that it increases attack power, which makes it a weak but not useless stat offensively, whereas vers is one of our best offensive and defensive stats.

[Hanede]

Just noticed this in the first post:

Rend and Tear - While in Bear Form, Thrash also increases your damage dealt to the target, and reduces your damage taken from the target by 2% per application of Thrash.
Often switching between this and Lunar beam, both feel quite good, if the 2 extra thrash stack legendary works with this it will easily be the best talent single target and more sustained aoe.

I think we already have info about how the legendary works, perhaps it could be updated on the guide?

[Pumpsm8]

Just noticed this in the first post:


I think we already have info about how the legendary works, perhaps it could be updated on the guide?

yeah good spot, probably some other things that were unconfirmed from beta still in there somewhere also.

[ForTehNguyen]

due to the ironfur and bonus armor fix, ask mr robot rerated a lot of trinkets, the arcway one is back on top like it used to be and what I always thought was the best. Time to farm i guess. Darkmoon immortality, grotesque statuette, writhing heart of darkness trinkets fell pretty hard

[Nevcairiel]

[...] grotesque statuette, writhing heart of darkness trinkets fell pretty hard

Those don't even have armor or interact with IF in any way, so how is that?

In short, AMR tank trinket suggestions are not very reliable. Or more generally, tank info seems overall a bit wonky. I simmed my bear with AMR Simulator last week and the resulting weights and gear suggestions were rather absurd.

[Kujako]

due to the ironfur and bonus armor fix, ask mr robot rerated a lot of trinkets, the arcway one is back on top like it used to be and what I always thought was the best. Time to farm i guess. Darkmoon immortality, grotesque statuette, writhing heart of darkness trinkets fell pretty hard

What happened to Writhing Heart of Darkness?

[ForTehNguyen]

nothing happened to darkness but it got rated down hard for some reason, used to be one of the BiS. The impenetrable nerubian husk went down hard too. Good I got so tired of farming that. I think ill just stick with trinkets with vers/mastery and use for damage shields now. Those damage shields have saved me countless times

[Kujako]

nothing happened to darkness but it got rated down hard for some reason, used to be one of the BiS. The impenetrable nerubian husk went down hard too. Good I got so tired of farming that. I think ill just stick with trinkets with vers/mastery and use for damage shields now. Those damage shields have saved me countless times

(shrug) I still like mine, especially given how much crit Blizzard piles onto leather gear. ~4% damage reduction against all targets is hard to beat.

[Deleted]

Just got Sephuz's Secret (fuck me right?) and wanted to know what would be the best setup (2 out of 3)

- ilvl 840 (997 stam, 555 vers, 1213 mastery)
- ilvl 840 (997 stam, 808 vers, 960 mastery)
- ilvl 895 (1665 stam, 1552 crit, 620 haste, socket)

I gain 35k HP, it is worth it for the loss of vers/mast ? If yes, can someone explain me why ?! Thank you my fellow bears

[Dreyen]

I'm pretty surprised you'd think 55 itemlevels isn't enough to surpass mastery/vers lol. Haste and crit aren't as good but they aren't useless, and you also left out agi. That ring is a good chunk of dodge which is still pretty good

The haste buff you get from using CC (Fits perfectly with disorienting roar) is also very significant and can be used on all trash pulls for m+ and on some raid bosses.

[Rioo]

Just got Sephuz's Secret (fuck me right?) and wanted to know what would be the best setup (2 out of 3)

- ilvl 840 (997 stam, 555 vers, 1213 mastery)
- ilvl 840 (997 stam, 808 vers, 960 mastery)
- ilvl 895 (1665 stam, 1552 crit, 620 haste, socket)

I gain 35k HP, it is worth it for the loss of vers/mast ? If yes, can someone explain me why ?! Thank you my fellow bears

At least it doesn't count towards the equipped legendary limit yet (no ring does I think). There's gotta be some mf out there with 4 legendaries equipped.

[Seditian]

At least it doesn't count towards the equipped legendary limit yet (no ring does I think). There's gotta be some mf out there with 4 legendaries equipped.

That's a tooltip bug. It does count for the limit. I wasn't able to equip the belt after equipping Dual Determination. Not until I got my research done a few days ago anyway.

@Dreyen: The ring doesn't have agility. None of the jewelry have it, not even legendaries. Thank fuck.

As for it being an upgrade, I agree. I'd replace the 555 Vers ring with it. Haste/Crit aren't insanely far behind on vers/mastery, and the ring having ~670 more stamina and a LOT more secondary stats on it more than makes up for it.

[Selerian]

Is it worth switching my 865 defensive relic to an 855 thrash buff relic damage-wise? Does the thrash dmg increase outscale the drop of my weapon ilvl?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Is it worth switching my 865 defensive relic to an 855 thrash buff relic damage-wise? Does the thrash dmg increase outscale the drop of my weapon ilvl?

If you do a lot of mythic + I'd recommend it.
If you don't do Mythic+ and only raid. Then probably not.

[Selerian]

Doing both but since i'm not having any survivability problems, I 'm interested in pushing for more dmg, hence the question.

[Bearshield]

At least it doesn't count towards the equipped legendary limit yet (no ring does I think). There's gotta be some mf out there with 4 legendaries equipped.

Just tested this, the ring does count toward the equip legendary limit.

[Elfbane]

nothing happened to darkness but it got rated down hard for some reason, used to be one of the BiS. The impenetrable nerubian husk went down hard too. Good I got so tired of farming that. I think ill just stick with trinkets with vers/mastery and use for damage shields now. Those damage shields have saved me countless times

What happened was AMR's trinket rankings weren't done until this past week. I'm not sure what lead to their last ranking or their current one, but up until this week there was a huge warning saying that their trinket rankings weren't done.

Again, I can't make heads or tails over either the old rankings or the new ones, so I'm not saying we should take their rankings as the word of god, but the change had nothing to do with the nerf, er, "fix." It was something that was going to happen anyway.

[ikewu83]

maul needs to be buffed.