Is Emerald Nightmare the worst 1st tier of all time?

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

I actually consider Emerald Nightmare as really solid raid which has nice lore and theme which fits it.

[Dasani]

I refuse to call something that comes out 3 months after launch part of the first tier. Thats just accepting lazyness from blizzard.

I agree with this mostly.

The thread should've been about launch content. 7.1 is not launch content, nor was BRF.

I sat and thought about the question for a bit and I essentially concluded that the worst first tier would've been cataclysm because it was so forgettable it took me ages to even remember the raids involved. Very "meh".

I recall and enjoyed most of the others. Highmaul was pretty shitty though.

As a tank, I found Mogushan to be one of my favorite raids mechanically. I thought juggling the energy of the dogs in the first fight was something interesting that was actually unique and had never been done before (and never done since). Meanwhile, every other tank mechanic is simply "LOL YOU GOT STACKS, TANK SWAP!" and is boring as fuck.

Second boss was likewise very fun. Throwing up the bubble to protect the raid at crucial times or using the other ability that only the tanks could use to copy and fire back certain boss mechanics was a LOT of fun to do as a tank.

I also rather enjoyed the final boss and dodging the boss attacks because it gave tanks something interesting to do besides just standing there.

From a tanking perspective, Mogushan was the best imo. From overall fun and how interesting, Karazhan wins hands down. Nax was pretty exciting because I was excited to take my new friends in there and show them around the place that I had raided in vanilla as a 40-man. The same group of people I still play with all these years later. Plus Eye of Eternity and Obsidian Sanctum weren't too bad either. Malygos was pretty fun from a tanking perspective because you had to keep an eye out of those sparks and position the dragon accordingly to try to overlap them for the DPS to maximize damage and so on.

[mittacc]

why do people always hate so much on naxx? It sure is one of my top raids, especially because of the atmopshere. So what if it was easy?

[Cynikaly]

Talked about this with others recently. I think EN is fine, it's not spectacular, it's just fine. However, I believe Nighthold is going to pull ahead miles of what EN is. It looks pretty incredible.

[thedingleberry]

It's a boring raid.

[n7stormreaver]

Tanking EN Heroic is super boring. As a tank, probably one of the worst instances since WotLK.


Well, Ursoc is quite fun, but only because it's intense AF comparing to everything else in this raid. Even Il'Gynoth, otherwise fun boss for dps, is super bland for tanks.

[caervek]

I don't get what's with everyone's distaste of EN. It's not the best raid, but there have been worse. It's the first raid of the tier and designed to allow new raiders to get their feet wet.

It's not about RAID specifically but about TIER. WoD and Legion are the only expansions where the first tier only had one raid at launch, and WoDs was better (didn't think I would ever say that lol).

[Marquize]

You're already wrong on the outset, because EN isn't even a tier raid, much like Mogu'Shan Vaults and Highmaul, it doesn't drop a tier set, the first one to do so will likely be Trials of Valor, and for you who seem to not have a wide memory span, Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs wasn't released at the same time as Vaults either, so you can't justify saying they win in sheer content as they were part of different content releases.

Regarding the WOTLK content, oh yes because reusing an entire raid tier is good practice, even if 99% hadn't seen it, also no, 1 boss raids are shit, let's never see those again.

You also forget that Nighthold is ways away, the next raid to come is Trials of Valor, and that's to come in 7.1, so not that far away.

[Deleted]

First of all, 2 raids are to open within first tier, so yea, first tier is not completely out yet.
How ever, I agree, it's boring. But can't compare with other first tiers, simply because it's not out yet.

3,... with Trial of Valor that's 3 raids.

[Deleted]

Absolutely not. While it's not an impressive raid, and the overall red color scheme does get on my nerves after a while, it's not nearly so bad.
Bosses are interesting without being overly complex or difficult.

It's not a memorable raid except for the lore ending the Xavius story.

From opening tiers, I'd say the following are easily worse in my opinion:
- Rehashed Naxx in Wotlk
- ToES and HoF in Mists (I like MSV)
- Highmaul

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In my opinion everything in MoP sucked hard. I did not like the hole asia Setting.

You're entitled to your opinion, but ToT (unless you're only referring to the opening tier) was objectively a high quality raid.

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Inb4 you get called racist - I agree, didn't make sense in the Orc v Human context but appreciate why they did it.

Warcraft has moved far and beyond its Orcs vs. Humans roots.

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why do people always hate so much on naxx? It sure is one of my top raids, especially because of the atmopshere. So what if it was easy?

The point is that a lot of us played it before, when it was much more challenging and rewarding.

[KrazyK923]

I think it's just more disappointing rather than bad.

I wanted some crazy fucking warped Azeroth. Outside of the area where the Dragon's fight takes place, there's very few places that look like that. Otherwise its just generic-red-and-black-corrupted-nonsense.

Especially with the re-using of all the sha models (With more spikes and horns of course, because blizzard) and the mist creatures from MoP. The nightmare creatures not being their own unique models, and just reskins with more horns and colored red, really sapped the uniqueness of the zone. If they had their own models, and instead of just showing Thunder Bluff on tilted platforms in the background, we had actual re-imagining of the classic world, it would have been more memorable.

Narratively I always found the idea of the Nightmare as never being able to be truly achievable in the game, so I never cared much about it, but if I really cared about the Emerald Dream or Emerald Nightmare, I'd be really pissed off with how it was just regulated to an uninspired forgettable raid in a patch with a vastly superior one.

[justinhalfout]

EN is just trash tier like Highmaul was, uninspiring and easily forgettable.

[Tenjen]

The point is that a lot of us played it before, when it was much more challenging and rewarding.

i agree with most of what you said but this is just...no. "alot of us" is a very...very....VERY small number. A handful of players got to experience naxx in vanilla.

[Deleted]

Bosses are fine mechanic wise IMO, biggest problem is tuning.

I also really like the mythic changes. Nyth, Dragons and Elereth really stepped up in terms of difficulty/fun from heroic. Also from a couple of tries, Evil Tree seems to be wayyy harder than heroic and also like a true progress fight, you can feel how you get further on every pull.

[Battlebeard]

Yes, it's by far the worst 1st tier of an expansion.

Vanilla - Molten Core, amazing, just amazing, huge, cool atmosphere and classic villains.
TBC - Karazhan. Amazing raid, even though it sucked it was only 10 man. Could have been grander.
WotLK - Naxx. As much as I hate what they did to classic naxx, the raid and it's bosses is freaking amazing.
Cata - BWD/BoT/4W, probably the best raid tier ever.
MoP - I never liked MSV but I loved HoF!
WoD - Highmaul also sucks, but EN is even worse.

[Strawberry]

Contentwise probably not very great. But I don't raid only for loot but also part of the lore. While it could have been better it's still interesting to me.

[InDecisive]

I think EN would have been fine if they'd managed to account for how M+ lets dedicated mythic raiders get heroic geared in a day.

[vashe9]

Legion is a great XPACK and EN heroic was fun, I'm beginning the MM this week. I play as a BM hunter and the bosses are fun for me, a lot of movement (and I have nothing to cast so it's perfectly fine for me)

Question : Has every people who replied "yes" finished the raid in mythic ? I'm sure a lot of them haven't...

[Deleted]

It has nothing to do with difficulty.

It really does. How can you get any enjoyment from something that provides no challange?
LFR is the worst game feture ever introduced to WoW. On the ladder of how bad it is, it climbed the stairway to heaven. The only thing you can judge from playing LFR is the quality of looking for group system and how it functions. After you accept your que it's just hoping people don't get lost on their way to the next boss and mindlesly press buttons until a "boss" (witch is a training dummy with limited hp) dies. How can you enjoy mehanics when everyone is just ignoring them?

EN is a good first tier with the downside of Xavious not being tuned right and for someone who just took over an entire realm and corrupted it he sure doesn't display it in his mehanics.

[Deleted]

Contentwise probably not very great. But I don't raid only for loot but also part of the lore. While it could have been better it's still interesting to me.

Exactly. There's also the extra layer when you're playing a Druid.