So this is the answer we got, and what are we going to do?!?!?!

[Casterbridge]

Infected claws supposedly beats Shadow Infusion in single target fights? Or is this about mythic+ runs (which are 95% trash)?

Personally I use Infected Claws on Trash or Aoeish focused fights and Necrosis on Single Target.

What fights are people using Shadow Infusion on?

[Schizoide]

Don't mean to argue with you, but what makes you think that someone can perform better with an alt than a main which he was playing the last, lets say 7 years?

Every spec changes every expansion. You weren't playing the same DK last year.

Obviously that assume you enjoy the class you decide to make your new main. If not, not.

[Slim1256]

I posted this here: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...age=7#post-132

Cut / pasted for those that don't want to bother going to look:
Back with more hard data to show DKs are not scaling well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...-TU7m6mG6GyZoc

The problem seems to be: people see UH DKs wrecking meters at lower ilvls, and so they just assume "Well, since our DK is doing great, those other DKs complaining that they're falling behind are just bads."

And discussing my concerns with the class and spec in my own raid team, I've been scoffed at, since my DPS is *okay* (and seriously, it's just okay, not great, relative to the rest of the team). But my numbers have also been falling off every week.

Looking at these numbers - from 840 to 860, DKs (both Frost and UH) fall off the WORST (and by a pretty wide margin) of any class in the game. Data in the link above to prove this.

[Mercane]

Infected claws supposedly beats Shadow Infusion in single target fights? Or is this about mythic+ runs (which are 95% trash)?

Personally I find that shadow infusion is a bit lackluster on fights where you can't use DT on CD, but since I got the bracers- I run IC full time, just to smooth out wound generation and to make my opener almost always have 8 wounds. Haven't tried necrosis, as I've heard mixed results.

Personally I use Infected Claws on Trash or Aoeish focused fights and Necrosis on Single Target.

What fights are people using Shadow Infusion on?

There's out of date guides floating around that suggest using SI over IC or Necrosis no matter what.

Particularly the #Acherus 7.0 Unholy guide.

[Cosmic Janitor]

On what fight can't you use DT on CD? :/

[wooootles]

On what fight can't you use DT on CD? :/

Probably Il'gynoth and Elerethe off the top of my head

[Dahti]

Don't mean to argue with you, but what makes you think that someone can perform better with an alt than a main which he was playing the last, lets say 7 years?

What makes you assume that they can't? Most classes have around 7 buttons you need to press, some have less...

[Casterbridge]

I'm trying to think of an alt to start up with, I don't have to my guild is casual enough and I generally am at the top or near enough that it doesn't matter, but I'd like to get something going a little stronger.

Looking an Enhancement as a possible, anyone DKs using one? How fun do you find them?

[RuneDK]

I'm playing my enhance more than my dk. Highly highly recommend it. Very fun and solid numbers.

[giniyo]

Recent numbers for those that care:
Heroic Emerald Nightmare, 75 Percentile, Single Target and an Add Cleave fight:

Ursoc
Frost DK: 239k avg 331k max
Unholy DK: 265k avg 404k max
Bottom Avg Frost Mage: 223k, Top Avg Enhance Shaman: 302k
Bottom Max: Afflic Lock: 304k, Top Max Shadow Priest: 559k
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4

Elereth Renferal
Frost DK: 227k avg 348k max
Unholy DK: 242k avg 415k max
Bottom Avg Frost Mage: 198k, Top Avg Marks Hunter: 274k
Bottom Max Frost Mage: 312k, Top Max Shadow Priest: 483k
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...6&difficulty=4

Showing the Min and Max for Avg DPS and Max DPS. This is to help show our scaling and how it compares to others. So Frost is in a bad, bad state, not Frost Mage bad, but pretty damn close. It's also still a chunk behind Unholy DK in average performance, and even further behind best performance. Unholy is in an OK place, it needs some buffs to combat it's poor item level scaling (switch those links to mythic logs) as others have pointed out in other threads. Frost, well, the only thing we have going for us is our extremely quick ramp up time which makes us appear as really good if you look at M+ logs.

just ignore the few people raiding mythic, that actually boosted their frost weapon a little bit, theres 2 people at ursoc at 360 and 370k without sindragosa-whoring-into-adds one scythe one obliteration spec (god knows why the oblit guy is below with a vantus rune aswell)

NOT saying its top spec now but definitely better than those... heroic numbers

edit2: oh, now theres another scythe fdk with 382k - its getting closer atleast, top unholy 424k

[sunbrother]

So is necrosis really an appreciable gain over SI for single target?

Looking over logs both the abom damage and the scourge strike damage is about 12%. So proper execution of necrosis would be like a 3-4% gain in single target.

And DT is only 125->135% for single target? Seems fairly lackluster and only useful for cleave. Then why did all the resources recommend it?

[Deleted]

a week to go for 7.1 and here we have no unholy changes and minimal frost changes, things are looking great!


Surely if they were going to put more changes in they would about now? due to having to test the changes and all..

[veilburner]

a week to go for 7.1 and here we have no unholy changes and minimal frost changes, things are looking great!


Surely if they were going to put more changes in they would about now? due to having to test the changes and all..

Better reroll to another class, it has been more than six years and still no fix for Frost mechanics.

If someone will say something like "don't act like sky is falling" again, I will punch his/her face.

[Highwhale]

But again, don't hold your breath-- get your alts to 110 and working on artifact research so you have the option to switch.

I play DK because i like its class fantasy/lore/gameplay idea (unholy warrior who brings death). Not gonna switch - i will try to adapt and get max from Blood.

[Nayami]

a week to go for 7.1 and here we have no unholy changes and minimal frost changes, things are looking great!


Surely if they were going to put more changes in they would about now? due to having to test the changes and all..

This worries me as well. I hope they put something for us in there...

[giniyo]

would be funny if trial of valor feedback contained how every guilds dk's are underperforming

[Deleted]

would be funny if trial of valor feedback contained how every guilds dk's are underperforming

And blizzard told them something along the lines of "Yeah fuck off." like they did in beta with the bdk outcry.

[RuneDK]

a week to go for 7.1 and here we have no unholy changes and minimal frost changes, things are looking great!


Surely if they were going to put more changes in they would about now? due to having to test the changes and all..

As Schiz has said numerous times...get those alts to 7.1 and get Artifact Knowledge rolling, this will give you the ability to switch if things stay as is. Once 7.1 hits I will level my mage, DH, hunter, and rogue all to 110. I already have my shaman to 110 and I usually never have an alt at max level this fast. This class isn't worth holding on to anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

I play DK because i like its class fantasy/lore/gameplay idea (unholy warrior who brings death). Not gonna switch - i will try to adapt and get max from Blood.

I love the fantasy/lore/gameplay....but feeling constantly snared and not having any compensation for the worst mobility on top of all the glaring issues the entire class has, it's about time to move on. Not going to play another expansion this way.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea I'm done with this class, the mobility issue is too big...I don't even care about the numbers as much as I do the lack of mobility.

[Pepehands]

I love my DK but I see no mention about any change. Everyday they say something about other classes "fury changes coming" "SP gonna have some changes", yesterday they went back about the decision on Pally after forum went crazy requesting it...

Still nothing about us.

Soooo, I am moving to DK Blood and Shammy Enhance for now, it seems to be the only way to make sure they know DK dps need some changes. Would be cool if lots of ppl could do the same.

[Dahti]

I love my DK but I see no mention about any change. Everyday they say something about other classes "fury changes coming" "SP gonna have some changes", yesterday they went back about the decision on Pally after forum went crazy requesting it...

Still nothing about us.

Soooo, I am moving to DK Blood and Shammy Enhance for now, it seems to be the only way to make sure they know DK dps need some changes. Would be cool if lots of ppl could do the same.

I see no reason to switch if you like Dk, they've never balanced around representation.