Why do so many players gate themselves out of progress?

[kamuimac]

One thing is certain: some players progress their toons almost effortlessly while others feel they've hit a brick wall. Why the discrepancy?

because its bs that they progress toons efortlesly - they put ton of time and effort into that progress and feel that if they did others should too- thats why they build invisible walls so no "scrubs" can get past - they belive that that effort and skills lets them be elitest douchebags - no other reason.

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It's a thing about entitlement, and expectations and effort - in Legion now more than ever before, and I agree @OP in most of his points especially on the last one.

Nevertheless, I want to add some personal comments and opinions to one specific point.
I got declined from a group. No one wants my class/spec/I-lvl
... but I want to run that content so badly
Exactly this is the main problem going on right now. So man think they are entitled to see and run everything. If the leader of a group doesn't want you in, you don't get in. Everyone has his own preferences and experiences. I, for instance, decline every single hunter I don't personally know in my groups, as I had very bad experiences with barrage pulls within the last few weeks. Is this shitty, prejudiced behaviour? Maybe, but I won't risk a failed M+ because of that anymore.

Declination is pretty much normal, and depends solely on group leader. Even a 880+ healer may get rejected from mythics because, well, maybe because the leader doesn't want others to think of him as one who wants to be carried and prefers to play with people around his iLvl.
What I want to say - nobody is obligated to take you with them. Even if you are the only one in the queue.

Everybody can solve this problem on his own.
You want to run a specific level of M+, but are declined every time?
Then run a few lower ones and gather some more gear, maybe you are invited then.
Or form a group by yourself, and bring your own keystone.
Or gather some RL/Online friends to run with them.
Or find a guild.
Or reroll another class/spec. Maybe you play a class which can heal or tank, than be healer or tank.

I know, not every of these options is viable for everyone. But, honestly, If none of these fits you, you may reconsider your goals within the game. You simply can't demand beeing carried by everyone just because you can't or won't put in a little bit of effort.

i disagree with it strongly- e hav 2016 year no not 2004 anymore - something which was ok around year 2000 has no place in current wolrd of computer games bassed and build areound lobby/que system - games with manual groups are no succesfull anymore -

wow is clearly way behind competition in this regard - it may be because compatition doesnt build their games around hardcore fans loving mythic difficulty i might not - but what we see in legion is droves of people leaving game regardless of how much content blizzard put into it - imo its because so what if they put ton of content in if 3/4 of it is outside of reach of majority of playerbase - the only ones who enjoy it are +/-500k of mythic/ hc raiders - rest is excluded and their gameplay is limited to boring daily wq and hc dungeons/lfr - no different then wod was

being declined is definetly not ok in current era of gaming - if player sees sonstant "decline"x100 it build up stress and dissatisfaction with the game as product . they think " ive paid so much to get constantly rejected ? f.. .this game ill log in to LoL/Dota and que for quick game"

it will end in disaster seeing how devs are clearly ok with those "exclusions" but its not a bad thing - there is ton of other games to play with better and less toxic communities (pointing at FFXIV if only the gameplay wasnt so slow there )

[Deleted]

because its bs that they progress toons efortlesly - they put ton of time and effort into that progress and feel that if they did others should too- thats why they build invisible walls so no "scrubs" can get past - they belive that that effort and skills lets them be elitest douchebags - no other reason.

Then explain one to me, please.
Why is one who puts about 6h/day into optimizing and gearing his character a douchebag when he doesn't want to run with people who (1) aren't interested in getting the maximum out of their class/spec, (2) aren't nearly equally equipped, (3) rather spend their time crying about rejection in than spend their time discussing their spec, (4) are more interested in other thing (PvP, farming old content, fishging, etc..) but just want to see 'how M+ goes' ?

[Zeta333]

this guy speaking the truth....i once had to drag a friend to a raid while he was like WHAT IF I FAIL...WHAT IF I DONT HAVE ENOUGH DPS...and guess what..he did okay

Just gota go out there and do it. Im social retarded in real life, i also cringe when i think back to the shit i did and said when i first started raiding. Stuff i would cringe if a new person said today. But the only way you get better and make sure you dont fuck up is by pounding it out.

[Deleted]

The most recent example I have of this is those bastards at the start of the expansion, shitting on people for messing up the light on Cordana in Vault of the Wardens. Throw that shit to them and watch them shut up instantly.

Yeah well, the thing is like this, i myself never take the light on cordana, because i have never tried to, but if you grab the light i expect you to know what you are doing, otherwise the right way of doing that is asking for someone who knows how the light works, and if there is no one, then you can say "ok i will try it then" and no one will shit on you, and if someone does, then you can react as you said.
But if you go and take the light without saying a word, i expect you to know how it works.
Yes i do agree even knowing how it works, you can make a mistake, but ten wipes after if you keep taking the light without saying a damn thing in all that time, and keep failing with the light, you can bet i am gonna shit on you.

[Roar-Powah]

The way Blizzard has set up this expansion is like a 2nd job, yer no thanks. I play to have fun and not work another 8hours a day just to "progress"

[Stormdash]

Social anxiety, mostly. And a crippling fear of screwing up.

Kind of a tragic irony, reall: being anxious about interacting with others when playing an MMO...

Well, it's not all irrational fear or anxiety -- there are a great number of assholes who were either raised by wolves or have a lot of issues they choose to work out on strangers in a game who make it very unpleasant to do anything wrong, even if you are just seeing it for the first time. It's actually the well-adjusted people for whom the game is purely a form of escape that will tend to avoid walking into those kinds of traps.

[Deleted]

The way Blizzard has set up this expansion is like a 2nd job, yer no thanks. I play to have fun and not work another 8hours a day just to "progress"

Seriously, nothing to do with the expansion, play only with people you get on with, and have the same progress pace you do as goal, and i can tell you the game is marvelous.

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It's actually the well-adjusted people for whom the game is purely a form of escape that will tend to avoid walking into those kinds of traps.

Yes, and also playing with friends and nice people only helps a lot.

[Deleted]

i disagree with it strongly- e hav 2016 year no not 2004 anymore - something which was ok around year 2000 has no place in current wolrd of computer games bassed and build areound lobby/que system - games with manual groups are no succesfull anymore -

You mean those city builder games, where you click stupidly around for some meaningless points?

wow is clearly way behind competition in this regard - it may be because compatition doesnt build their games around hardcore fans loving mythic difficulty i might not - but what we see in legion is droves of people leaving game regardless of how much content blizzard put into it - imo its because so what if they put ton of content in if 3/4 of it is outside of reach of majority of playerbase - the only ones who enjoy it are +/-500k of mythic/ hc raiders - rest is excluded and their gameplay is limited to boring daily wq and hc dungeons/lfr - no different then wod was

I don't consider myself a hardcore player. I consider WoW as a competitive hobby, and therefor I need to put effort into it to be able to compete with others. I'm in a very satisfying relationship and do a full-time job, and I'm in the current mythic content. Everybody who puts in enough effort can see anything - they may not be the first to see it, but they actually can see it. So don't tell me anybody is limited in this game to WQ, HC Dungeons and LFR. Even if you don't do mythic raiding, you can achieve a good progression in normal and heroic raids too.

being declined is definetly not ok in current era of gaming - if player sees sonstant "decline"x100 it build up stress and dissatisfaction with the game as product . they think " ive paid so much to get constantly rejected ? f.. .this game ill log in to LoL/Dota and que for quick game"

At this point I think I should really stop replying to you, as you seriously compare an MMORPG to a MOBA.
But, when we are at it. None of the competitive professional teams are obligated to take you with 'em - just like no group leader is obligated to take you with his group in WoW. If you really want to compare, then queue up in LFR and LFD, you won't get rejected here.

it will end in disaster seeing how devs are clearly ok with those "exclusions" but its not a bad thing -

Are you one of those who think participation trophies of primary school basketball games are something one should be proud of?

there is ton of other games to play with better and less toxic communities (pointing at FFXIV if only the gameplay wasnt so slow there )

Then go and play FFXIV maybe? I personally don't know anything about it, as I do not like FF in genral, but it seems like the game you want to play anyways?

[Trumpcat]

That is because mistakes are punished online in the most harsh of ways - unlimited attacks on one's persona. No matter how thick skinned you are, insults are bad. And for those without thick skin they are devastating.

I can't think of anything else, but finding a guild which does not tolerate bad behavior like they mean it. I am in such and the atmosphere and feeling is wonderful, we barely ever have even one pug in our groups. Which brings another point: nice people all too often stay in closed communities and often the ones who roam around in random groups are people who could not find their place in a nice guild. We remove jerks no matter how they may try to twist the facts and lie.

[Deleted]

The way Blizzard has set up this expansion is like a 2nd job, yer no thanks. I play to have fun and not work another 8hours a day just to "progress"

But why then expect others who do like to spend 8 hours a day in WoW to make up for the effort you are not willing to give?
There is literally enough content for players of every kind right now. Just don't aim for something that's out of reach

[kamuimac]

You mean those city builder games, where you click stupidly around for some meaningless points?

those games make milions of dollars on people who play them - dont see much point in dissing something which is clearly extremly succesfull buisness model.

[Simulacrum]

...being declined is definetly not ok in current era of gaming...

can't tell if poe or genuine, because this is so insanely stupid I have a hard time comprehending what deranged model of the would could even inspire it. you don't want people to get to choose who they play with in an MMO? that's the dumbest thing I've ever read on these forums, which is saying a lot.

[kamuimac]

Then explain one to me, please.
Why is one who puts about 6h/day into optimizing and gearing his character a douchebag when he doesn't want to run with people who (1) aren't interested in getting the maximum out of their class/spec, (2) aren't nearly equally equipped, (3) rather spend their time crying about rejection in than spend their time discussing their spec, (4) are more interested in other thing (PvP, farming old content, fishging, etc..) but just want to see 'how M+ goes' ?

because geting maximum out of your spec should be something you do because its fun for you - not because you feel you have to - at this point that you start beliving that doin it entitles you to anything more then the player who plays 2 hours a week it gives birth to toxicity and stupid elitism akin to "but if i take this worse geared player then ill do only 5 dungeons that night instead of 7 and world will end" or "but then we will kill only 3 bosses in raid instead of 5 and world will end " .

[gonzajd777]

Well, it's not all irrational fear or anxiety -- there are a great number of assholes who were either raised by wolves or have a lot of issues they choose to work out on strangers in a game who make it very unpleasant to do anything wrong, even if you are just seeing it for the first time. It's actually the well-adjusted people for whom the game is purely a form of escape that will tend to avoid walking into those kinds of traps.

ITs ok bro, just do not expect people carry you or dont reject you when you queue in a M+
Some people really enjoy the game and do not feel it like a 2nd job becouse we understand that some things, even a game need time and effort to reach the perfection and that is what we are chasing for.
Some people just want pay2win

[Deleted]

those games make milions of dollars on people who play them - dont see much point in dissing something which is clearly extremly succesfull buisness model.

I don't dis them, this is just my opinion (but you seem to have a problem with the concept of different opinions anyways).
A game needs some sort of challenge for me that I consider it a game.
As you stated, those are business models. The only justification for their existence is to get the maximum amount of many out of everyone, from toddler to retired people. The developers do not want to give you a good time playing, they want to subtle force you to spend exorbitant sums on every last bit of the 'game'. And yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about, as I work for a company who actually creates and maintain some of those money-traps for stupid people (as they are refered in the office).
Am I a hypocrite? Maybe.

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because geting maximum out of your spec should be something you do because its fun for you - not because you feel you have to - at this point that you start beliving that doin it entitles you to anything more then the player who plays 2 hours a week it gives birth to toxicity and stupid elitism akin to "but if i take this worse geared player then ill do only 5 dungeons that night instead of 7 and world will end" or "but then we will kill only 3 bosses in raid instead of 5 and world will end " .

So, let me summarize (and generalize )
(1) You want force everyone to accept your opinion and style of playing the game because you think its the best
(2) You are not willing to accept other opinions and styles of playing the game because you don't think its good

In fact, you are the example of what's wrong with not only this game's community, but everywhere on the world right now.

[rda]

So, let me summarize (and generalize )
(1) You want force everyone to accept your opinion and style of playing the game because you think its the best
(2) You are not willing to accept other opinions and styles of playing the game because you don't think its good

In fact, you are the example of what's wrong with not only this game's community, but everywhere on the world right now.

Your summary is wrong.

He is fine with people living in the game and spending tons of time on whatever, then grouping with other such people. He isn't fine with being declined because every group is / pretends to be like that.

For example, if all grouping was automatic with players matched by ilvl, he'd be fine, he doesn't need carries. (Not saying things should be done this particular way, it was just an example, but the issue with how things are is very real.)

[Simulacrum]

Your summary is wrong.

He is fine with people living in the game and spending tons of time on whatever, then grouping with other such people. He isn't fine with being declined because every group is / pretends to be like that.

For example, if all grouping was automatic with players matched by ilvl, he'd be fine, he doesn't need carries. (Not saying things should be done this particular way, it was just an example, but the issue with how things are is very real.)

How does this reject One-Of-Many's summary?

[gonzajd777]

Your summary is wrong.

He is fine with people living in the game and spending tons of time on whatever, then grouping with other such people. He isn't fine with being declined because every group is / pretends to be like that.

For example, if all grouping was automatic with players matched by ilvl, he'd be fine, he doesn't need carries. (Not saying things should be done this particular way, it was just an example, but the issue with how things are is very real.)

Ilvl do not mean good performance in general.
dude, this is not fair with ppl who like put some extra effort...
M+ need that extra effort and that is why ppl get rejected.

DEAL WITH IT

[rda]

How does this reject One-Of-Many's summary?

His points (1) and (2) are both wrong, the person he quotes does not want everyone to accept their opinion / style and is willing to accept the opinion / style of others himself.

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Ilvl do not mean good performance in general.
dude, this is not fair with ppl who like put some extra effort...
M+ need that extra effort and that is why ppl get rejected.

DEAL WITH IT

It was just an example.

[Deleted]

Your summary is wrong.

He is fine with people living in the game and grouping with other such people. He isn't fine with being declined because every group is like that.

For example, if all grouping was automatic with players matched by ilvl, he'd be fine, he doesn't need carries. (Not saying this should be done this particular way, it was just an example, but there is a clear issue with how it is currently.)

Then our assumptions are somewhat differently I guess.
I just can tell that not every group is like that, especially default Mythic dungeons are very, very easy to get into. So is normal raiding.
Anything else just needs more effort right now than @kamuimac is obviously willing to give. I won't apply to a +10 pug too, because I'm sure I'll get declined.

The current system works fine, as long as you don't overestimate yourself or try to get carried by randoms.
And yes, I'm still thinking that creating your own group when you don't find one, not willing to progress your char by other means or don't want to join a guild is a viable option. But then, I've never been a friend of generation I want everything now, and I deserve it because I'm special, and if I don't get it exactly the moment I want it everyone else is to blame.

Even with an LFG tool for M(+) people would still cry because they still will be rejected by groups forming through /1.

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His points (1) and (2) are both wrong, the person he quotes does not want everyone to accept their opinion / style and is willing to accept the opinion / style of others himself.

You read the whole conversation or just the last one or two posts of @kamuimac?
He clearly wants the game to force everybody to take him with them imo.