Man on PCP tries to kill cop, cop refuses to shoot for fear of public backlash, video

[Lady Dragonheart]

I'm waiting on your proof.

No, you made the claim that concussions are always serious enough to shoot someone over. It's your point to prove, not mine.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No, you made the claim that concussions are always serious enough to shoot someone over. It's your point to prove, not mine.

No, I never said that.I did not use those words.

[Christan]

And it's useless to point out that the officer could not have shot him before being beaten up.

good point, i think more along the lines of her partner should be fired for not protecting her, if taser isn't working(guess it had a low charge?) then move to a more drastic measure, and since very close range he could easily(maybe) go for a non-lethal shot.

it didn't seem she had much time, AND with him on her, if she drew her weapon he may have been able to take it from her, because of increased strength n all.

No, you made the claim that concussions are always serious enough to shoot someone over. It's your point to prove, not mine.

if people haven't died from getting their head slammed into the ground i would see your point. people have died from less, just takes one little blood vessel in the brain to pop and aneurysm, that kind of thing can have lasting effects, lifelong effects, even without death, from memory problems(ever see 50 first dates) to motor control, even emotional(not just scaring which could be solved with therapy) but actual issues with inhibition control, anger control, etc.

so a plethora of possible lifelong problems, up to death. or a non-lethal shot at close range?

so yes, in the case where someones getting their head slammed into the ground it IS worth that, especially if they are law abiding citizens being beaten.
common sense, is the proof of concept here, that's all the point you need on the matter. maybe a modicum of intelligence.


i think the main thing i see from your post, maybe you aren't differentiating between the heat of the moment, when the officer COULD easily have died, and afterwards, when it was found she only had a concussion?

hindsight is 20/20 if they knew her beating would only result in a concussion then yes, don't shoot.
impossible to have foresight to the point of telling the future though.

[Barnabas]

good point, i think more along the lines of her partner should be fired for not protecting her, if taser isn't working(guess it had a low charge?) then move to a more drastic measure, and since very close range he could easily(maybe) go for a non-lethal shot.

it didn't seem she had much time, AND with him on her, if she drew her weapon he may have been able to take it from her, because of increased strength n all.

if people haven't died from getting their head slammed into the ground i would see your point. people have died from less, just takes one little blood vessel in the brain to pop and aneurysm, that kind of thing can have lasting effects, lifelong effects, even without death, from memory problems(ever see 50 first dates) to motor control, even emotional(not just scaring which could be solved with therapy) but actual issues with inhibition control, anger control, etc.

so a plethora of possible lifelong problems, up to death. or a non-lethal shot at close range?

so yes, in the case where someones getting their head slammed into the ground it IS worth that, especially if they are law abiding citizens being beaten.
common sense, is the proof of concept here, that's all the point you need on the matter. maybe a modicum of intelligence.


i think the main thing i see from your post, maybe you aren't differentiating between the heat of the moment, when the officer COULD easily have died, and afterwards, when it was found she only had a concussion?

hindsight is 20/20 if they knew her beating would only result in a concussion then yes, don't shoot.
impossible to have foresight to the point of telling the future though.

Or they could've put a gun to the guys head and squeezed the trigger?

[Lady Dragonheart]

good point, i think more along the lines of her partner should be fired for not protecting her, if taser isn't working(guess it had a low charge?) then move to a more drastic measure, and since very close range he could easily(maybe) go for a non-lethal shot.

it didn't seem she had much time, AND with him on her, if she drew her weapon he may have been able to take it from her, because of increased strength n all.

if people haven't died from getting their head slammed into the ground i would see your point. people have died from less, just takes one little blood vessel in the brain to pop and aneurysm, that kind of thing can have lasting effects, lifelong effects, even without death, from memory problems(ever see 50 first dates) to motor control, even emotional(not just scaring which could be solved with therapy) but actual issues with inhibition control, anger control, etc.

so a plethora of possible lifelong problems, up to death. or a non-lethal shot at close range?

so yes, in the case where someones getting their head slammed into the ground it IS worth that, especially if they are law abiding citizens being beaten.
common sense, is the proof of concept here, that's all the point you need on the matter. maybe a modicum of intelligence.


i think the main thing i see from your post, maybe you aren't differentiating between the heat of the moment, when the officer COULD easily have died, and afterwards, when it was found she only had a concussion?

hindsight is 20/20 if they knew her beating would only result in a concussion then yes, don't shoot.
impossible to have foresight to the point of telling the future though.

No, common sense denotes that you overpower the man and exact control over the situation, detaining him. Essentially exactly what happened, and you don't use lethal force when it isn't called for.

[Christan]

Or they could've put a gun to the guys head and squeezed the trigger?

while he definitely did deserve that imho, a debilitating shot since it was close range would be good enough to me, thinking shoulder, lots of bones there, or lung.
while lethal force can easily be justified against an active attacker... his life in jail, without opportunity for parole since he attacked an officer, while also being cripled(he'd be someones @#%# since he couldn't fight) also nights of going through a cold turkey withdrawal, i think would of been a much better option for him, than simple death.

No, common sense denotes that you overpower the man and exact control over the situation, detaining him. Essentially exactly what happened, and you don't use lethal force when it isn't called for.

i'm not advocating lethal force, but in that moment, as soon as his taser did nothing, he should of pulled his gun and gone for a non-lethal shot.
him waiting while trying to overpower the perp, could easily of caused the officer to die. screw that mess, i mean if you hate cops fine i see your opinion as justified

[PhaelixWW]

It wasn't "repeatedly", did you even watch the video? In their sad attempt at a take down she got dragged down with him and fell head first into the street. Soon as they were on the ground the other officers got control of the guy. Quit spreading bullshit.

Are you fucking kidding? She was punched in the face multiple times before they even fell to the ground, and it took them over a minute and a half to remove his hands from her head after the fall.

Stop making up your own bullshit, the video directly contradicts what you're saying.

[Fojos]

Hey man. These black people in the ghettos are just innocent and misunderstood.

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They are not always life-threatening, though. There is also the condition it which it was caused. As I have stated, this specific concussion isn't due reason to shoot someone dead. There are stipulations that must be adhered to in order to use lethal force. If this were the case, coughing on a cop when you have the flu is potentially life-threatening depending on the situation. This is why such stipulations exist and why cops are trained as to when and when not to use lethal force.

Not every concussion suffer on the job give a cop a warrant to use lethal force, just as every concussion is not always life-threatening, especially when all cops have training on how to deal with concussions.

Not always serious? Do you know anything about anatomy?

A single hit to your head can kill you. Attacking someone like this is reason to kill them, no questions asked.

The naive people of this world.

[PhaelixWW]

Most NFL players receive hundreds of thousands of concussions across their lifetime, how is this proof?

Bwahahahaha!

As if we needed any reason not to take you at all seriously on this subject, this gem really proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

FYI, football concussion rate is about 1 in 1000 practices/games. The average player participates in roughly 100 practices/games a year, and most football players' careers span no more than 20 years, including high school and college. So the average career football player is statistically likely to have less than two concussions in their lifetime.

But yeah, two... hundreds of thousands... I guess there's no difference there, right?

But honestly, if you think every little bump on the head is the same thing as a concussion, then it's no wonder you don't think it equates to serious bodily harm.

[Polyxo]

Apparently I should be bringing a machine gun to beer league, because that place is a DEATH TRAP.

[PhaelixWW]

Apparently I should be bringing a machine gun to beer league, because that place is a DEATH TRAP.

The brain trauma in your beer league has everything to do with the beer and nothing to do with the league...

[Choda]

No, it is not. Lethal force is not granted unless someone's life is immediately in danger. Even then, the use of lethal force is limited. That is, in fact, the law.

Nice cherry picking. How about full context instead:

I am not citing any laws or regulations, just pointing out how darwinianly retarded it is to attack an armed police officer.

Also, I believe this needs to be re-stated:

On a side note - had this been a white man attempting to rape a woman, and she did shoot him, you'd all be propping her up as a saint, even though her life was never in danger. But since it's WHITE COP vs BLACK male it's obviously not ok. Hypocritical bastards, all of you.

And before I get crucified - an attempted rapist does deserve to be shot regardless of gender, just pointing out the vile double standards at play here.

[Fasc]

Well that's all the proof I need.

Oh look... another thread where Polyxo simply refutes without evidence despite proof to the contrary being presented... /snicker

I figured it would devolve into this after I left yesterday and lo and behold we have people spouting opinions about concussions and law while being woefully ignorant of both.

[the game]

Oh look... another thread where Polyxo simply refutes without evidence despite proof to the contrary being presented... /snicker

I figured it would devolve into this after I left yesterday and lo and behold we have people spouting opinions about concussions and law while being woefully ignorant of both.

yeah but the other guy said so. It must be true.

[Fasc]

yeah but the other guy said so. It must be true.

Must be odd living in such a way that when evidence is presented you just... ignore it? I don't get such levels of cognitive dissonance, but I also don't understand most post-modern means of "thinking" if you can even call it that so perhaps that's to blame here? /shrug

I do find it amusing that a beer pong league (that's right up there with Professional House Wrapping Competitions) is the crowning rebuttal to concussions being 'totes no big deal.

[Polyxo]

Must be odd living in such a way that when evidence is presented you just... ignore it? I don't get such levels of cognitive dissonance, but I also don't understand most post-modern means of "thinking" if you can even call it that so perhaps that's to blame here? /shrug

I do find it amusing that a beer pong league (that's right up there with Professional House Wrapping Competitions) is the crowning rebuttal to concussions being 'totes no big deal.

Welp, somebody doesn't understand terminology.

[Fasc]

Welp, somebody doesn't understand terminology.

Your opening volley was that a concussion doesn't fit the legal definition of serious bodily injury, and you had nothing to respond with about my posting the direct jury instruction concerning that exact term and its four elements. So you probably should be less obtuse and evasive and explain what about concussions or the elements of serious bodily injury you don't understand...

Or you can continue with "nu uh, you're too dum to explain anything to!!"



- - - Updated - - -

At least soldiers are supposed to be willing to die to protect the people back home. While cops kill the people at home to preserve their own lives.

Cops intend on returning home every day and not in a body bag. If that's a problem then you have a major ideological issue with police forces the world over. Same goes for firefighters having the "audacity" to not want to burn up in a blaze of glory...

[Fojos]

Bwahahahaha!

As if we needed any reason not to take you at all seriously on this subject, this gem really proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

FYI, football concussion rate is about 1 in 1000 practices/games. The average player participates in roughly 100 practices/games a year, and most football players' careers span no more than 20 years, including high school and college. So the average career football player is statistically likely to have less than two concussions in their lifetime.

But yeah, two... hundreds of thousands... I guess there's no difference there, right?

But honestly, if you think every little bump on the head is the same thing as a concussion, then it's no wonder you don't think it equates to serious bodily harm.

And since she mentioned NFL.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-study-shows/

[Fasc]

Firefighters are at least willing to die to prevent others dying.

So are cops, but like firefighters the police are trained on how to ensure they come home safe. For firefighters this means no heroics once certain signals are there that risks are too great, even if there are 3 children in the upstairs or whatever. It is the sad state of balancing service with survival.

Cops always put their lives over the lives of the people they apprehending even when there isn't a realistic chance of them being seriously hurt.

The moment you use "always" you're wrong. Their training doesn't even come close to this level and while SOME cops take no chances whatsoever to the point of abuse of the public, most are not. Statistics and training protocol simply do not agree with you.

Just because someone robbed a 7/11 for cigarettes doesn't mean they deserve to be shot in the streets? It's not their fault the prison system (especially in the US) is punitive and doesn't help people get out of the shitty mental, economic or social situations they are in.

Who said anything about shooting someone ONLY for stealing cigarettes? Don't straw man positions about lawful use of lethal force, it makes you look quite stupid. Also, punitive consequences are perfectly fine in and of themselves, but the US prison system could use some work to be sure. However, not everyone can be saved, even if you bend over backwards to do exactly that.

Maybe one day I'll see a cop get shot and survive just so they can say "don't look at me i was just doing my job" then maybe ill believe there are some good cops out there.

Oh... well then aren't you a lovely human specimen...

[Polyxo]

Your opening volley was that a concussion doesn't fit the legal definition of serious bodily injury, and you had nothing to respond with about my posting the direct jury instruction concerning that exact term and its four elements. So you probably should be less obtuse and evasive and explain what about concussions or the elements of serious bodily injury you don't understand...

Or you can continue with "nu uh, you're too dum to explain anything to!!"



- - - Updated - - -



Cops intend on returning home every day and not in a body bag. If that's a problem then you have a major ideological issue with police forces the world over. Same goes for firefighters having the "audacity" to not want to burn up in a blaze of glory...

Your post demonstrated that concussions satisfy none of the criteria.
There is no substantial risk of death. Suggesting there is is akin to suggestion a paper cut has a substantial risk of death because "sometimes people bleed to death!"
There's no extreme physical pain. You might feel a bit nauseous at the worst.
No protracted disfigurement. Obviously not.
No protracted loss impairment of the body. You're most likely to go back to doing exactly what you're doing immediately after you suffered a concussion. In the event of a bad concussion, someone might hang out with you for a while to make sure everything's fine, while you watch tv, or read or play some video games.

Also, pro tip: A beer league is a community hockey league.