Enhance legendaries quite weak?

[Chesco]

Is it only me or you guys are also thinking Enhance legendaries are quite weak? Except for Ring, every other class-specific legendary is either weak or very situational. Allow me to explain my point for our class/spec-specific legendaries.

• Ring, Eye of the Twisting Nether, is by far the best legendary. It has bis stats, socket, a good effect, and it's useful in any situation with 100% uptime on the three buffs (as long as you use Hailstorm). A guy told me it refreshes Fire/Frost buffs on FT/FB autoattacks, so if they change this (cause tooltip says "your elemental abilities") it probably won't be 100% anymore.
• Chest, Emalon's Charged Core, has a good effect but it requires a sustained AOE situation to be really useful. Sadly, it isn't the case for the vast majority of the boss fights (most of them don't even have 3 targets for a Crash Lightning at any moment).
• Belt, Storm Tempests, seems to have a quite good effect for cleave, but it requires a sustained cleave situation to be really useful. It's weak for burst cleave, and deals no damage on single. Also, it deals a quite low damage for every bolt.
• Wrist, Akainu's Absolute Justice, seems to have a good effect at first, but you only use LL once in a while and its damage is way too low. Still not sure why it got nerfed on beta (from 60% to 30%).
• Boots, Spiritual Journey, is a good legendary, possibly superior than others for encounters that require you to be out of melee range (or 10yd range for other skills), cases in which you'll make good use of Ghost Wolf. The tooltip is pretty bad: it changes the maximum Feral Spirit CD from 120s to 30s while Ghost Wolf is active, meaning that every 1s in Ghost Wolf reduces CD by 4s (thanks Jotaux for the info!). As a bonus, with a more frequent Feral Spirit you have more frequent cleave/AOE bursts.

Notice that other than Ring (which is class-specific, not spec), every spec-specific legendary is quite weak. Of course, you have a set of legendaries for every scenario (Ring+Wrist for single, Ring+Belt for cleave, Ring+Chest for AOE). My point is, scenario-specifics legendaries should be great for they situations, but they are all weaker than Ring even on each of their specific scenarios (Chest has the only better effect but only with constant 3 target, a very, very rare scenario for boss encounters).

Sometimes I like to compare them with Elemental ones, which in my opinion our bis (Ring) is their worst class legendary. I'm seriously considering using legendary Legs (healing roots while you stand still) just because of bis stats.

What do you guys think?

PS: notice that only two legendaries don't have Crit (Ring and Legs - no legendaries have Vers).

Edited Spiritual Journey comment. Thanks, Jotaux!

[Jotaux]

[*]Boots, Spiritual Journey, is possibly the worst. I still didn't test it so correct me if I'm wrong. 75% faster means that instead of recovering 1s CD every second, it will recover 1.75s every second (possibly it'll reduce 0.75s CD after 1s has passed, and not as a current time, something like Spirit of the Maelstrom perk does with Maelstrom). It gives you a reward for staying on Ghost Wolf but really? You can almost consider it as a RNG legendary, as in most fights you'll only use it when some RNG comes to you, and even when it happens it's very weak.[/LIST]

The wording is not ideal but it essentially makes the cooldown on feral spirits go 4 times faster while in ghost wolf. It has its uses. Like on Nythendra if you get stuck outside of melee range, or on Renferal I get an extra set of wolves. Normal and heroic Ursoc you can sometimes get an extra set of wolves depending on your kill time but theres always something to attack on mythic so its not useful there. On mythic Dragons it makes you ideal for portals as you will have wolves up for every one.

[Chesco]

The wording is not ideal but it essentially makes the cooldown on feral spirits go 4 times faster while in ghost wolf. It has its uses. Like on Nythendra if you get stuck outside of melee range, or on Renferal I get an extra set of wolves. Normal and heroic Ursoc you can sometimes get an extra set of wolves depending on your kill time but theres always something to attack on mythic so its not useful there. On mythic Dragons it makes you ideal for portals as you will have wolves up for every one.

Did you test to be sure it's 4 times faster?
Because, for example, if you cast a spell 100% faster you won't be insta-casting it, you'll cast with with half of the default cast time.
To recover 4 times faster it should increase cooldown recovery by 300% (thus 400% recovery speed, meaning 4 times).
As it is now, I guess that if you cast Feral Spirit and stay in Ghost Wolf until wolves come off cd, you'll wait for ~68s.

[Jotaux]

Did you test to be sure it's 4 times faster?
Because, for example, if you cast a spell 100% faster you won't be insta-casting it, you'll cast with with half of the default cast time.
To recover 4 times faster it should increase cooldown recovery by 300% (thus 400% recovery speed, meaning 4 times).
As it is now, I guess that if you cast Feral Spirit and stay in Ghost Wolf until wolves come off cd, you'll wait for ~68s.

Yes when I cast feral spirits and go into ghost wolf the cd is at 30s. The text should say its reduced by 75%

[Chesco]

Yes when I cast feral spirits and go into ghost wolf the cd is at 30s. The text should say its reduced by 75%

It's a bad tooltip then. It's like it reduces the max cooldown to 30s while Ghost Wolf is active (meaning that every 1s in Ghost Wolf means -4s on Feral Spirit 120s CD). Nice to know, thanks.
So it seems quite dependant on mechanics that make you move a lot, but it's not so bad after all.

[Jotaux]

It's a bad tooltip then. It's like it reduces the max cooldown to 30s while Ghost Wolf is active (meaning that every 1s in Ghost Wolf means -4s on Feral Spirit 120s CD). Nice to know, thanks.
So it seems quite dependant on mechanics that make you move a lot, but it's not so bad after all.

Yeah I was really surprised in how much use I've gotten from them. With us having to do 2 eye phases I'm just using feral spirits on cd on Il'gynoth. Theres a ton of down time on that fight and typically I was ghost wolf while soaking the roots or w/e they are.

[EooELE]

The chest is great in mythic+, but still the ring is vastly better than everything else and everything else is practically useless in raids, except for ghost wolf, LL? seriously filler move with weak damage even 30% wont make it better.

[JonBeMerkin]

Who cares if the legendarys are weak Enhance is still the best melee DPS in EN right now in any difficulty according to warcraft logs.

Bigger picture my man

[Lowland]

The chest is incredible for Mythic +. I'm lucky enough to have one and it's a permanent 10% damage increase on trash packs, which are generally the hardest part of higher Mythic+s.

I think the bracers will seem more desirable once we have access to the Tier 19 4 piece bonus in Nighthold, which gives Lava Lash a 20% chance to proc Stormbringer. In fact, that set bonus looks like it'll cause a shift in our priorities and potentially our standard talent build in general. But yeah, right now they suck.

As far as the itemization goes - I did a brief (and not perfectly thorough) comparison a few weeks ago where I looked at the stats on legendary items for several DPS specs compared to the stat priorities listed on Icy Veins, and the other DPS specs I looked at got the same treatment Enhance did: one spec-specific legendary that was well itemized, with the rest having sub-optimal stats. Seems that may have been an intentional design decision across the board.

[Huanak]

I got boot.it force me go wolf form all time and it is quiet useful for mythic+ with more uptime on wolf.

[Chesco]

The chest is incredible for Mythic +. I'm lucky enough to have one and it's a permanent 10% damage increase on trash packs, which are generally the hardest part of higher Mythic+s.

I think the bracers will seem more desirable once we have access to the Tier 19 4 piece bonus in Nighthold, which gives Lava Lash a 20% chance to proc Stormbringer. In fact, that set bonus looks like it'll cause a shift in our priorities and potentially our standard talent build in general. But yeah, right now they suck.

I agree about Chest for Mythic+, as well as Boots. I often forget about M+ because I always focus on raids.
But I don't think Wrist will change its place as a bad legendary. Ok, you'll have a 4set for it, but it won't change its condition of a spender filler. When you are high on Maelstrom you use Lava Lash (sometimes spamming it) to avoid wasting Maelstrom. The 4set will give you an additional chance for every Lava Lash to proc Stormbringer, so you can spend this Maelstrom in a more efficient way.

[Deleted]

Is it only me or you guys are also thinking Enhance legendaries are quite weak? Except for Ring, every other class-specific legendary is either weak or very situational. Allow me to explain my point for our class/spec-specific legendaries.

• Ring, Eye of the Twisting Nether, is by far the best legendary. It has bis stats, socket, a good effect, and it's useful in any situation with 100% uptime on the three buffs (as long as you use Hailstorm). A guy told me it refreshes Fire/Frost buffs on FT/FB autoattacks, so if they change this (cause tooltip says "your elemental abilities") it probably won't be 100% anymore.
• Chest, Emalon's Charged Core, has a good effect but it requires a sustained AOE situation to be really useful. Sadly, it isn't the case for the vast majority of the boss fights (most of them don't even have 3 targets for a Crash Lightning at any moment).
• Belt, Storm Tempests, seems to have a quite good effect for cleave, but it requires a sustained cleave situation to be really useful. It's weak for burst cleave, and deals no damage on single. Also, it deals a quite low damage for every bolt.
• Wrist, Akainu's Absolute Justice, seems to have a good effect at first, but you only use LL once in a while and its damage is way too low. Still not sure why it got nerfed on beta (from 60% to 30%).
• Boots, Spiritual Journey, is a good legendary, possibly superior than others for encounters that require you to be out of melee range (or 10yd range for other skills), cases in which you'll make good use of Ghost Wolf. The tooltip is pretty bad: it changes the maximum Feral Spirit CD from 120s to 30s while Ghost Wolf is active, meaning that every 1s in Ghost Wolf reduces CD by 4s (thanks Jotaux for the info!). As a bonus, with a more frequent Feral Spirit you have more frequent cleave/AOE bursts.

Notice that other than Ring (which is class-specific, not spec), every spec-specific legendary is quite weak. Of course, you have a set of legendaries for every scenario (Ring+Wrist for single, Ring+Belt for cleave, Ring+Chest for AOE). My point is, scenario-specifics legendaries should be great for they situations, but they are all weaker than Ring even on each of their specific scenarios (Chest has the only better effect but only with constant 3 target, a very, very rare scenario for boss encounters).

Sometimes I like to compare them with Elemental ones, which in my opinion our bis (Ring) is their worst class legendary. I'm seriously considering using legendary Legs (healing roots while you stand still) just because of bis stats.

What do you guys think?

PS: notice that only two legendaries don't have Crit (Ring and Legs - no legendaries have Vers).

Edited Spiritual Journey comment. Thanks, Jotaux!

It's definitely not just you who thinks this, but I think in general it's a misconception in the community - or that people expect more from their legendaries. While some of them are clearly better than others - and some are damn near useless in some situations, all of them has it's use.

I made a post recently where I gave some suggestions on Legendaries, but let me address the ones you mention here:

Eye of Twisting Nether: Yes, it's a wonderful legendary, no doubt about it.
Emalon's Charged Core: Has some applications in raids, but not many. You might see a few procs on Elerethe Renferal, Ilgynoth, Cenarius and Xavius, but nothing major (except maybe for bursting down adds on Elerethe Renferal). However, it's absolutely godly if you like to run mythic dungeons, and the stats are fairly nice anyways.
Storm Tempests: Not very useful for raids, but very good for mythic runs if you can swap targets between stormstrikes.
Akainu's Absolute Justice: This is actually useful on single target fights. Wearing this moves LL up in a higher priority than Crash Lightning (even if it's talented) if there's just one target. It becomes obsolete if there are two targets and your have CL talented (if not talented, cast CL every 10 seconds to keep the cleave up) and anything above 3 targets makes untalented CL > LL. That said, when you do need to AOE, Lava Lash just becomes a stronger option if Stormstrike is off cooldown. So not as bad a legendary as people think.
Spiritual Journey: Absolutely amazing legendary, and has applications in pretty much all content - but other people have corrected your initial thoughts on this item.

I'm not sure what people are expecting from legendaries, but keep in mind that we are only two months into legion. Lots of things can change. It's not unlikely to think that Blizzard will do something with how crit affects us, as it is currently our weakest stat (I'm thinking +1 maelstrom per crit or something like that), or that some of the legendaries will be tuned down the road.

[Chesco]

Akainu's Absolute Justice: This is actually useful on single target fights. Wearing this moves LL up in a higher priority than Crash Lightning (even if it's talented) if there's just one target. It becomes obsolete if there are two targets and your have CL talented (if not talented, cast CL every 10 seconds to keep the cleave up) and anything above 3 targets makes untalented CL > LL. That said, when you do need to AOE, Lava Lash just becomes a stronger option if Stormstrike is off cooldown. So not as bad a legendary as people think.

I tested on Simcraft with my gear and using 34/34 Doomhammer, placing Lava Lash just over single-target Crash Lightning on priority list. Basically, instead of using it only to dump Maelstrom (to avoid reaching 150), I changed to use it before CL (meaning I would only use CL when I didn't had enough Maelstrom for LL). It reduced DPS from 405.2k to 401.4k. Average damage from skills was ~108k from CL and ~230k from LL. Note: this include Forged in Lava perk, one of the last you pick. The difference was higher without it.

Lava Lash should be better as it's a more efficient way to spend Maelstrom in single, but it also messes with our Maelstrom control because of the higher cost, even when adding a minimum Maelstrom value to use it (changing value didn't make much difference in DPS). This means that if you priorize LL over CL you'll be spending more Maelstrom, which increases the chances that you'll be missing Maelstrom for other skills and for successive Stormbringer procs. This is checked when you see the damage per execute time for Frostbrand (815k to 797k) and Flametongue (344k to 337k), the increase in waiting time (1.9s to 2.9s), and the time spent casting Stormstrike (114.0s to 109.4s). As LL attacks with offhand, we'll have no procs with it for Windfury and Stormbringer (until we get T19 4set) while CL procs both (remember that Windfury hits can proc Stormbringer, too), so I guess everything stays the same for single until Nighthold.

I'm not sure about AOE but it is possible CL continues over LL even if the buff is active (didn't simulate this, though). If I remember right, cleave damage from using LL with CL buff up isn't considered LL damage, so legendary won't affect cleave/AOE damage from LL. So, I'm not sure if CL-buffed LL hits harder than a CL on 2 targets.

But you presented a good point. I guess all you said about the Wrist will happen when we put our hand into a T19 4set. Lava Lash will finally be worth using not only for dumping Maelstrom, but for actual single target damage, and CL will lose its place on our single-target rotation (if any buff comes to T90 talents, there's a possibility we end up changing Crashing Storm).

[Lowland]

I agree about Chest for Mythic+, as well as Boots. I often forget about M+ because I always focus on raids.
But I don't think Wrist will change its place as a bad legendary. Ok, you'll have a 4set for it, but it won't change its condition of a spender filler. When you are high on Maelstrom you use Lava Lash (sometimes spamming it) to avoid wasting Maelstrom. The 4set will give you an additional chance for every Lava Lash to proc Stormbringer, so you can spend this Maelstrom in a more efficient way.

As Chesco mentions above me: once we get the T19 4-piece I suspect we'll want to drop Crash Lightning out of our single target rotation entirely in favor of using LL as both a maelstrom dump and means to proc Stormbringer. This will mean significantly more LL casts per fight (basically your combined LL + CL casts now), with LL thus becoming a greater % of our overall damage and thus increasing the power of those bracers. It'll also mean dropping the Crashing Storms talent on single target fights, probably in favor of Fury of Air. If you have the legendary bracers AND T19 4 piece bonus, it's possible that the Hot Hands talent will also pull ahead of Boulderfist, which would really change our rotation/playstyle up a bit.

This is all theorycrafting of course...I haven't run any Sims to see what the actual numbers might look like....

[Tribs]

There's almost never a moment where the Belt outperforms the Ring. Sometimes on Mythic+ trash I can get numbers closer to 8% of my damage but this is quite rare and hard to accomplish (eg. pelters). For raid trash however, no one is going to think you have an AoE legendary from the damage meters, no one :/

[Teddybearavenger]

Who cares if the legendarys are weak Enhance is still the best melee DPS in EN right now in any difficulty according to warcraft logs.

Bigger picture my man

The real problem is people trusting warcraft logs like religion when they are a guide not a 100% facto number chart.

[JonBeMerkin]

The real problem is people trusting warcraft logs like religion when they are a guide not a 100% facto number chart.

What an ignorant thing to say

[runique]

The real problem is people trusting warcraft logs like religion when they are a guide not a 100% facto number chart.

Enhance is the best dps in EN. It's been fact since the buff.

[Deleted]

Who cares if the legendarys are weak Enhance is still the best melee DPS in EN right now in any difficulty according to warcraft logs.

Bigger picture my man

Enhance is the best dps in EN. It's been fact since the buff.

O'rly?
Warcraft logs for you then.

Mythic overal:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

Myth Xavius:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

If you are talking about Normal or HC, its like talking pvp stuff in 2v2 bracket on 1600-ish rating (no one cares ).
But we are in very good spot ATM.

[JonBeMerkin]

O'rly?
Warcraft logs for you then.

Mythic overal:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

Myth Xavius:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1864

If you are talking about Normal or HC, its like talking pvp stuff in 2v2 bracket on 1600-ish rating (no one cares ).
But we are in very good spot ATM.

Okay? Thanks for agreeing with me