Bm hunter viable at pve?

[zoned]

Major problem I've found with BM in raids is it has poor to non existent 2-3 target or spread cleave. Just about every other spec has passive or strong cleave/spread cleave. So if there is even a single ad during a raid encounter not only will you drop to the bottom of meters but you will be severely gimping your raid team. MM has better single target damage and superior cleave so why would any serious raiding guild ever consider a BM hunter. BM in my opinion has the worst raiding potential out of any dps spec. I'm sure blizzard is aware of this the questions is will they fix it.

Please keep in mind this applies only to competitive high end mythic raiding. I don't want to hear about how you topped a heroic raid meter.

[Kirbypro]

BM is good if raid mechanics stress you out and focusing on mechanics makes you forget to dps.

[Krazzorx]

Major problem I've found with BM in raids is it has poor to non existent 2-3 target or spread cleave. Just about every other spec has passive or strong cleave/spread cleave. So if there is even a single ad during a raid encounter not only will you drop to the bottom of meters but you will be severely gimping your raid team. MM has better single target damage and superior cleave so why would any serious raiding guild ever consider a BM hunter. BM in my opinion has the worst raiding potential out of any dps spec. I'm sure blizzard is aware of this the questions is will they fix it.

Please keep in mind this applies only to competitive high end mythic raiding. I don't want to hear about how you topped a heroic raid meter.

There's many dps specs worse than BM. By quite a bit too. It's pretty mechanically balanced (mm is the imbalanced one) and it's numbers are good/not far behind MM. (Except for the fights that make MM better). Certainly within the margin for skill error. (Helped by upcoming MM nerfs)

It's just no MM player is going to throw 26 points + relics into BM this early on (ever?). Which makes it look worse.

[zoned]

There's many dps specs worse than BM. By quite a bit too. It's pretty mechanically balanced (mm is the imbalanced one) and it's numbers are good/not far behind MM. (Except for the fights that make MM better). Certainly within the margin for skill error. (Helped by upcoming MM nerfs)

It's just no MM player is going to throw 26 points + relics into BM this early on (ever?). Which makes it look worse.

So your argument is that people have more points in MM so it makes BM look bad? There is a reason people are not going BM for raiding because it's a horrible raiding spec possibly the worst in game. It's bottom tier single target and cleave damage, to make matters worse it's probably the worst scaling spec in game. Just look at BM's 4th golden trait it only boosts *pet* dmg by 5% which does not include hunter damage or crows which is 30% of total damage. While every other dps spec gets a flat 5% damage boost across the baord from 4th golden. The spec is flawed in every way. There is no argument that can justify it being a good raiding spec for hunters when MM is available. Also PvE is scripted and any pro MM hunter can run a near flawless rotation on any fight regardless of movement.

[Krazzorx]

So your argument is that people have more points in MM so it makes BM look bad? There is a reason people are not going BM for raiding because it's a horrible raiding spec possibly the worst in game. It's bottom tier single target and cleave damage, to make matters worse it's probably the worst scaling spec in game. Just look at BM's 4th golden trait it only boosts *pet* dmg by 5% which does not include hunter damage or crows which is 30% of total damage. While every other dps spec gets a flat 5% damage boost across the baord from 4th golden. The spec is flawed in every way. There is no argument that can justify it being a good raiding spec for hunters when MM is available. Also PvE is scripted and any pro MM hunter can run a near flawless rotation on any fight regardless of movement.

My argument is without a doubt the gap in dps looks larger than it is because just about every min/max hunter went MM on launch. And unlike previous xpacs it's not like you can swap specs after tier is cleared for lols and play it to same efficiency as someone who mains it. You won't have the AP or weapon ilvl.

Is MM an overall better raiding spec? Yes, there's a reason why nearly everyone went MM (esp before BM buffs), but that doesn't make BM bad. If MM didn't exist (hence everyone went BM and actually put effort into it) I think it probably would be somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Last I checked it sims about equal to MM on single target. While sims don't determine strength of spec overall, (hence MM being better) it shows that it's damage is relatively fine.

[silverstarzs]

BM . . . .it's probably the worst scaling spec in game.

So, factually, no, not really (at least within the current scaling range).

The big question is set bonuses - that usually strongly determines the op specs. We dont have set bonuses in Emerald. But looking forward to Nighthold that's where your discussion should probably focus.

[MatthewOU2015]

I have 25 ranks in my BM weapon. Should have titans thunder by next Tuesday. I'm loving BM just started to do heroic pugs and haven't been kicked yet. Love love love BM. Sorry to break the MM circle jerk.

[Krazzorx]

Well, unless BM goes significantly above MM, MM will probably always be the go to spec just because it's niche can't really be matched and it's extremely versatile because of sidewinders. Now, if they change sidewinders up mechanically and make Nighthold, say, 7.2, then you can talk about BM being go to spec possibly. But that's way too theoretical. (And I don't think that will happen; Nighthold being 7.2)

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Tl;dr, there's a difference between "bad" and "not as good" BM is in the second category. Ele shaman, Frost Mage, outlaw rogue are in the first.

[Kirbypro]

I have 25 ranks in my BM weapon. Should have titans thunder by next Tuesday. I'm loving BM just started to do heroic pugs and haven't been kicked yet. Love love love BM. Sorry to break the MM circle jerk.

3rd trait is not going to suddenly make you own the meters. Its just a bit of a boost.

--

The BM 4th trait is hilarious...ly bad. I didn't realize it wasn't a flat 5% buff to all dmg. WTF Blizz.

[Vampiregenesis]

Guys am i the only one who plays bm with a castsquence macro? (i mean gnomesequencer) i tested playing with individual skills and sequence on a dummy and i pull around the same dps , the second will obviously make me a beast when it comes to boss mechanics because i just spam one button and i dont have to check for cds etc , also some more questions:

1. Is stampede more dps than killer cobra for st?

2. i pull around 170k-210k dps st with 844 ilvl no 3rd relic 61% mastery 15% haste 26% crit 15 artifact traits no enchants or flask/pot/food , is that ok or should i pull more than this?

[Deleted]

So your argument is that people have more points in MM so it makes BM look bad? There is a reason people are not going BM for raiding because it's a horrible raiding spec possibly the worst in game. It's bottom tier single target and cleave damage, to make matters worse it's probably the worst scaling spec in game. Just look at BM's 4th golden trait it only boosts *pet* dmg by 5% which does not include hunter damage or crows which is 30% of total damage. While every other dps spec gets a flat 5% damage boost across the baord from 4th golden. The spec is flawed in every way. There is no argument that can justify it being a good raiding spec for hunters when MM is available. Also PvE is scripted and any pro MM hunter can run a near flawless rotation on any fight regardless of movement.

Possibly worse in game.. just lol.. have you even played BM with 860+ gear and 26+ traits and good relics? At worse the spec is comfortably mid tier

BM does fine/good on Nyth.. Ursoc.. Xavius
Great on eye
Average on dragons
Poor on Cenarius

As for the 1% of amazing pro MM hunters who maybe able to dodge slime and bugs on say mythic nythendrea while pulling out a perfect rotation.. good for them.. it's something the majority of wow players/MM hunters can't do

[Gereorth666]

No you don't. Crit is a mediocre stat for Beast Mastery. Stop talking out of your ass, stick to the facts.

Atleast it's good to know you're such a nice person.

[Echion]

Tl;dr, there's a difference between "bad" and "not as good" BM is in the second category. Ele shaman, Frost Mage, outlaw rogue are in the first.

Exactly

BM is perfectly viable for all single target fights (MM isn't THAT high above it without RNG procs). I pull some good numbers @ 26 AP and 400k right now is possible if you have the ring, belt, and good gear.

I don't know what NightHold will look like, but one can assume there will be spread out adds as well so MM should still be better. Can anyone comment on that?

[krunksmash]

currently MM is the top spec in EN by a large margin. at 855 - 860 with the BM leggy boots and wrists 260K sustained is about average, where a good MM hunter can pull 300K+. The reason Bm DPS lacks is due to bad tuning and Blizzards total lack of action to Fix its single target damage. so unless you are a top 10% hunter player Bm will not be very viable in Mythic EN until Blizz decides to actually start fixing the spec.

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Guys am i the only one who plays bm with a castsquence macro? (i mean gnomesequencer) i tested playing with individual skills and sequence on a dummy and i pull around the same dps , the second will obviously make me a beast when it comes to boss mechanics because i just spam one button and i dont have to check for cds etc , also some more questions:

1. Is stampede more dps than killer cobra for st?

2. i pull around 170k-210k dps st with 844 ilvl no 3rd relic 61% mastery 15% haste 26% crit 15 artifact traits no enchants or flask/pot/food , is that ok or should i pull more than this?

1) this will depend, in practice, Stampede pulls ahead as long as the boss stays in the stampede for atleast 90% of its duration other wise killer cobra pulls ahead. also due to focus regen limits and ability cost killer cobra will only give you 2 MAYBE 3 KC's in your BW window if you have the BM leggy boots Killer Cobra drops in value as dire beast fills a similar role and killer Cobra actually starts causing issues with over lap while still not addressing the focus generation issues.

2) that damage sounds about right for the situation you discribed. while Sims claim 240 average at 840 I have not actually seen a full set BM hunter pull that regularly.

[Azortharion]

It's funny because in a raiding scenario, BM's single target is its best quality (while still being worse than most other specs in the game, MM included).

[krunksmash]

It's funny because in a raiding scenario, BM's single target is its best quality (while still being worse than most other specs in the game, MM included).

its best in that we can keep attacking even when moving and can KC from a godly distance but its DPS is sorely lacking.

[Azortharion]

To say that BM's single-target DPS is "sorely lacking" is hyperbole at best and simply wrong at worst.

[Krazzorx]

currently MM is the top spec in EN by a large margin. at 855 - 860 with the BM leggy boots and wrists 260K sustained is about average, where a good MM hunter can pull 300K+. The reason Bm DPS lacks is due to bad tuning and Blizzards total lack of action to Fix its single target damage. so unless you are a top 10% hunter player Bm will not be very viable in Mythic EN until Blizz decides to actually start fixing the spec.

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1) this will depend, in practice, Stampede pulls ahead as long as the boss stays in the stampede for atleast 90% of its duration other wise killer cobra pulls ahead. also due to focus regen limits and ability cost killer cobra will only give you 2 MAYBE 3 KC's in your BW window if you have the BM leggy boots Killer Cobra drops in value as dire beast fills a similar role and killer Cobra actually starts causing issues with over lap while still not addressing the focus generation issues.

2) that damage sounds about right for the situation you discribed. while Sims claim 240 average at 840 I have not actually seen a full set BM hunter pull that regularly.

Unless it pulls significantly ahead of MM, it's just not going to have many people swapping to it. Sidewinders+marked shot is too good for the majority of raid situations.

Not helped by artifact system either.

[Zurlie]

"Viable" is a subjective term. Everything is viable, depending on how carried you want to be. 8 Disc priests + 2 Tanks is probably viable comp for normal EN. In comparison to better comps, it's still garbage though

[Deleted]

To say that BM's single-target DPS is "sorely lacking" is hyperbole at best and simply wrong at worst.

Are you ever not a cunt when replying to people?

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Also BM is fine. I raid in a casual guild >Logs< Rásputín is me.