Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

Because most lawsuits sue for a incredibly large amount of money. The judge usually ends up deciding how much and its rarely if ever the amount asked for.

But clearly Blizzard was sympathetic towards them and went as far as playing on Nostalrius servers and share the fun they had doing so because.....they made no money and was purely for the love of Vanilla.

There is no other reason. They were ruthless on that other case where they asked for 80 000 000.

A pointless "thought exercise" I have no intentions of indulging you with.

It doesn't belong to you = it doesn't belong to you. Anything past that is mental masturbation.

Yeah thinking is hard.
Imagine someone invented "super chess" and made impossible for everyone else to play "regular chess" for copyright reasons.
Now all the world is forbidden to play regular chess.

Makes sense. Lets just forget chess ever existed.

[Holtzmann]

But clearly Blizzard was sympathetic towards them and went as far as playing on Nostalrius servers and share the fun they had doing so because.....they made no money and was purely for the love of Vanilla.

There is no other reason. They were ruthless on that other case where they asked for 80 000 000.

There's actually a very good reason they were so ruthless when suing Scapegaming. Blizzard has always said that one of the reasons they don't like the idea of outsourcing their services is because they don't want other people making their game look bad. Scapegaming's private servers featured heavy item sale, incomplete mechanics (a lot of people reported bosses in that server being mostly just tank-and-spank), and poor service. Also, the owner of Scapegaming made an enormous amount of money and ignored Blizzard's cease-and-desist letters and basically said "bring it on!". So Blizzard did.

Nostalrius by contrast was much closer to Blizzard's standards and they didn't ignore the cease-and-desist. Blizzard told them to stop and they did. Blizzard could likely still sue, but considering that Nostalrius actually complied with what was requested of them that's probably not going to be necessary.

[stomination]

But clearly Blizzard was sympathetic towards them and went as far as playing on Nostalrius servers and share the fun they had doing so because.....they made no money and was purely for the love of Vanilla.

There is no other reason. They were ruthless on that other case where they asked for 80 000 000.



Yeah thinking is hard.
Imagine someone invented "super chess" and made impossible for everyone else to play "regular chess" for copyright reasons.
Now all the world is forbidden to play regular chess.

Makes sense. Lets just forget chess ever existed.

Would be quite hard being chess isn't a copyrighted game.

Anyways about that 80 million. The court system decided to give blizzard that much due to data that blizz presented. The defendant never showed up to the court so he basically let blizz win.

Also blizz knew they would never see that money. It was a scare tatic to show they can easily win these cases. Hell the defendant ran off with the 3 million he had in paypal.

[Laqweeta]

I think if people took a hard look at what WoW looked like in 2004, without adding ANY of the conveniences after patch 1.12, they would probably play once for nostalgia and quit. Think about vanilla for a sec:

- Hunters gave up a bag slot for ammo/arrows (made or bought)
- Warlocks farmed shards for 2-4 hours before the raid
- Rogues made poisons
- You had to train in new weapons and level your weapon and unarmed skills
- Reagents
- 5 minute buffs (instead of 60)
- No such thing as food buffs
- Horde loses paladins
- Alliance loses shamans
- Limited race/class combos
- 16 slot bags
- Mounted speed with the carrot and spurs only 120%. No flying ever.
- Summoning stones and Warlocks only - no LFD, LFR
- No more flex/mythic raiding
- no rep tabards
- 1 bank/mailbox/ah in SW and Org
- remove 70% of flight paths
- most holiday bosses removed
- paladins and locks have to quest for class mounts at 40
- 60% speed at lvl 40 and 100% speed at lvl 60. Walking for the first 40 levels
- No such things as heirlooms
- no transmog
- Nothing is account wide
- Achievement system removed
- Gearscore comes back

and the list goes on and on. Have people really thought about the limitations, and changes of reversion involved with a classic server? No AoE loot, nothing glows, no dungeon journal, raids require you to be in a raid, no more soloing content... etc. People will get what they wish for... and then leave.

This has obviously been debunked considering Nosts numbers. Yes people will quit, just like they quit retail.

[Ielenia]

This has obviously been debunked considering Nosts numbers. Yes people will quit, just like they quit retail.

Nostalrius doesn't have a subscription fee to play.

[Deleted]

Nostalrius doesn't have a subscription fee to play.

exactly, if people still pay to play a shit game like retail, imagine how many more would pay to play a good game like vanilla with blizzard backing it up.

[Morbownz]

Nostalrius doesn't have a subscription fee to play.

I haven't payed any money to play WoW since the tokens came into the game.

[Darktbs]

I see all this legacy stuff like Kids asking constantly for a new toy,but when they got it the play a lot in the first moments then forget about the said gift.

Not wanting to insult anyone(unlike others in this same thread).

But that its.Will be so hyped if legacy were announced,you will have a huge amount of people in the first moments then slowly they will fade away.

Like happen with Legion,you have a huge amount of people due to hype and they slowly dismiss.

The difference,Legion have a big number of players that stay playing.

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I haven't payed any money to play WoW since the tokens came into the game.

I can relate to this.Got some gold in my characters ready for when i buy Legion.

[Holtzmann]

I haven't payed any money to play WoW since the tokens came into the game.

Which means someone else did, and Blizzard made even more money since WoW Tokens are more expensive than a normal subscription. :P

[Morbownz]

Which means someone else did, and Blizzard made even more money since WoW Tokens are more expensive than a normal subscription. :P

True, but that wasn't the point the person I replied to was making.

[Ielenia]

exactly, if people still pay to play a good game like retail, imagine how many more would pay to play a shitty game like vanilla with blizzard backing it up.

Just fixed it for you.

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I haven't payed any money to play WoW since the tokens came into the game.

You still need to "spend" to keep your subscription active, don't you? Whether using actual cash or gold (which means someone else paid it for you), it's irrelevant.

[Kyanion]

But clearly Blizzard was sympathetic towards them and went as far as playing on Nostalrius servers and share the fun they had doing so because.....they made no money and was purely for the love of Vanilla.

There is no other reason. They were ruthless on that other case where they asked for 80 000 000.



Yeah thinking is hard.
Imagine someone invented "super chess" and made impossible for everyone else to play "regular chess" for copyright reasons.
Now all the world is forbidden to play regular chess.

Makes sense. Lets just forget chess ever existed.

Can you prove they made no money? There were donations made and you can prove that every single cent went towards the server? The shirts money was donated...you sure? Got some proof?

'love of Vanilla' is a weak as hell defense, stop using it. They were infringing copyrights I don't care what their motive was.

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So they claim.

Unless they prove that claims to us, I'll remain skeptical.

Those guys made plenty of claims that always made them and their server look really good. Of course no one could fact check them and see the real truths but I don't think it matters, those Nost-drones ate up everything they said as the complete truth. I know you are the same as I am in that we don't take the word of these people as truth because they were already to risk breaking various laws to copyright infringe.

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exactly, if people still pay to play a shit game like retail, imagine how many more would pay to play a good game like vanilla with blizzard backing it up.

Oh man you sure are forcing that agenda! Retail is shit, Legacy is great! Got it.

[Deleted]

Can you prove they made no money? There were donations made and you can prove that every single cent went towards the server? The shirts money was donated...you sure? Got some proof?

'love of Vanilla' is a weak as hell defense, stop using it. They were infringing copyrights I don't care what their motive was.

You don't care what their motive was but i can understand the moral standpoint of view.
No one is saying Nost were not infringing copyrights. What i am saying is that they were not being immoral because Vanilla can't be played any other way without breaking the law and dennying the pleasure of playing Vanilla is immoral.

They only accepted 360 dollars per month in donation.
They only sold 200 T-shirts.

Do you think they made any money like this? Even if they are lying, which i dont believe, someone had to pay for the servers.

[Morbownz]

You still need to "spend" to keep your subscription active, don't you? Whether using actual cash or gold (which means someone else paid it for you), it's irrelevant.

No, it's not irrelevant, that's why game tokens exist and appeal to plenty of players. In fact they have been pretty important in padding the fall of subscriptions during content droughts, so it's anything but irrelevant.

[Kyanion]

You don't care what their motive was but i can understand the moral standpoint of view.
No one is saying Nost were not infringing copyrights. What i am saying is that they were not being immoral because Vanilla can't be played any other way without breaking the law and dennying the pleasure of playing Vanilla is immoral.

They only accepted 360 dollars per month in donation.
They only sold 200 T-shirts.

Do you think they made any money like this? Even if they are lying, which i dont believe, someone had to pay for the servers.

And do you have proof they only made 360 bucks and sold 200 T-shirts or is that what they TOLD you they made. Thought so.

Do I think they made any money? Dunno really but since we don't know for a fact either way it can be debated.

[fcc]

I think if people took a hard look at what WoW looked like in 2004, without adding ANY of the conveniences after patch 1.12, they would probably play once for nostalgia and quit. Think about vanilla for a sec:

- Hunters gave up a bag slot for ammo/arrows (made or bought) - true
- Warlocks farmed shards for 2-4 hours before the raid - false, took about 20 minutes at most.
- Rogues made poisons - true
- You had to train in new weapons and level your weapon and unarmed skills - true
- Reagents - true
- 5 minute buffs (instead of 60) - false, paladins had greater blessings.
- No such thing as food buffs - false, plenty of food buffs
- Horde loses paladins - true
- Alliance loses shamans - true
- Limited race/class combos - true but who cares?
- 16 slot bags - 18 slotters available from raids
- Mounted speed with the carrot and spurs only 120%. No flying ever. - true, not seeing a problem though
- Summoning stones and Warlocks only - no LFD, LFR - true, and good.
- No more flex/mythic raiding - good.
- no rep tabards - ????
- 1 bank/mailbox/ah in SW and Org - it was actually ironforge at the start, they added the auction houses to all the cities at one point in vanilla too, so false.
- remove 70% of flight paths - false, same amount of flight paths
- most holiday bosses removed - who cares?
- paladins and locks have to quest for class mounts at 40 - false, the paladin/warlock mount was trainable the quest is for the epic mount
- 60% speed at lvl 40 and 100% speed at lvl 60. Walking for the first 40 levels - true but not an issue
- No such things as heirlooms - good.
- no transmog - the only point i will concede, i do like transmog
- Nothing is account wide - nobody cares again
- Achievement system removed - finally
- Gearscore comes back - no it doesn't

Please, if you're gonna post shit actually do your research.

[Holtzmann]

- remove 70% of flight paths - false, same amount of flight paths
- Gearscore comes back - no it doesn't

Please, if you're gonna post shit actually do your research.

Cataclysm actually added a good number of new flight paths that Vanilla didn't have.

Also, Gearscore, or some similar add-on would probably come back. It only became a problem in Wrath of the Lich King because it took add-on makers that long to get around to it. The cat is out of the bag now, and if you think people won't start talking about ilvl minimums once content goes into farm mode and people start doing pick-up groups, you are sorely mistaken.

[Ielenia]

What i am saying is that they were not being immoral because Vanilla can't be played any other way without breaking the law

They were being immoral. Taking someone else's work, without their permission, and using it, again, without their permission, is immoral.

and dennying the pleasure of playing Vanilla is immoral.

No, it's not immoral. It's their property. They can do what they want with it. It wouldn't even be immoral if Blizzard suddenly decided to close all WoW, Diablo and Starcraft servers and stop offering support for those games. I really don't see how you can call that 'immoral'.

They only accepted 360 dollars per month in donation.

Where's the proof of that, please?

They only sold 200 T-shirts.

Again, where is the proof?

Do you think they made any money like this?

Yup.

Even if they are lying, which i dont believe, someone had to pay for the servers.

So they should have paid the servers with their own money, instead.

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No, it's not irrelevant, that's why game tokens exist and appeal to plenty of players. In fact they have been pretty important in padding the fall of subscriptions during content droughts, so it's anything but irrelevant.

You what's the difference between WoW and free-to-play? On a free-to-play game, I can play for an hour on the 10th of September, return to the game only on the 29th of October, and nothing would be different on my account. With WoW? I'd find my account locked, unless I either paid them cash for the subscription fee, or bought a token, which still means real money went into Blizzard's pockets.

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- remove 70% of flight paths - false, same amount of flight paths

Actually, he's correct. Back in pre-Cata, for example, Wetlands had one flight path, on Menethil Harbor. Now, it has five. And that's just one example.

[Gadzooks]

But clearly Blizzard was sympathetic towards them and went as far as playing on Nostalrius servers and share the fun they had doing so because.....they made no money and was purely for the love of Vanilla.

There is no other reason. They were ruthless on that other case where they asked for 80 000 000.



Yeah thinking is hard.
Imagine someone invented "super chess" and made impossible for everyone else to play "regular chess" for copyright reasons.
Now all the world is forbidden to play regular chess.

Makes sense. Lets just forget chess ever existed.

Am I supposed to take this seriously?

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Would be quite hard being chess isn't a copyrighted game.

Anyways about that 80 million. The court system decided to give blizzard that much due to data that blizz presented. The defendant never showed up to the court so he basically let blizz win.

Also blizz knew they would never see that money. It was a scare tatic to show they can easily win these cases. Hell the defendant ran off with the 3 million he had in paypal.

SHE never showed, and SHE ran off with 3 million. The owner was a woman. Allison Reeves, iirc.

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And do you have proof they only made 360 bucks and sold 200 T-shirts or is that what they TOLD you they made. Thought so.

Do I think they made any money? Dunno really but since we don't know for a fact either way it can be debated.

I kind of think they're telling the truth about the shirts - if you're gonna brag, go big. 200 shirts, for a community they claim is in the hundreds of thousands, is a really bad story to be telling. It shows that the "community" is all talk, until it comes time to throw some money in - then very few can be found. It's not a compelling story to show Blizzard, trying to show their community is willing to pay their way, to get what they want.

[Deleted]

Where's the proof of that, please?

Some random person on reddit asking on how to donate to Nostalrius because he didn't want the server to go down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nostalrius/...rt_the_server/
Link to the original site saying the money they needed per month (the part in blue)
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40607

They only accepted a limit amount of cash per month. Everyone knows that because it was in the original site for everyone to see.
That no longer exists.
Until then they were paying with their own pockets

A lot of reddit pages saying "how tha fudge is this even possible" (when there was no donation button, 1 year ago)