Nightborne are clearly a Highborne thing

[krunksmash]

you do understand that besides politics and eyecolor there is absolutley no difference between blood elves and highelves is right?
and since this time we talk about thalassian elves, quel'dorei simply means highelves.

this is actually where thing get a bit muddled, Blood elves are actually different that highelves, over time they under went some minor evolutionary changes ( talking on the scale of how over the last 200 years average human high has changed evolution ) Blood elves became shorter than their high elven cousins, also the paler skin became a permanent trait rather than one of 2 common skin colors. the last of the traditional High elves are just Night elves that practice arcane magic.

[McFrotton]

We are all trolls from the start, can't we just set aside all prefixes and just get along?

Nothing is proven even in the hall of lightning NE and trolls share different ''build''

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this is actually where thing get a bit muddled, Blood elves are actually different that highelves, over time they under went some minor evolutionary changes ( talking on the scale of how over the last 200 years average human high has changed evolution ) Blood elves became shorter than their high elven cousins, also the paler skin became a permanent trait rather than one of 2 common skin colors. the last of the traditional High elves are just Night elves that practice arcane magic.

No, blood elves are just a renames, Go in WC3 frozen throne you will understand, Kael Thas Sunstrider renamed his people Blood elves in honor of all the fallen high elves during the third war (sunwell explosion after Kel Thuzad reanimation). That's it. Nothing more nothing less.

Blood elves = High elves

And if you did not pay attention or played WC3 xpac, they sided with horde because of a dumbass alliance human general was using blood elves as cannon fodder, sending them on perilous mission for a certain death and even calling them a lesser race.

[Rhlor]

shaldorei are shaldorei

[Kithelle]

dude, this entire expansion is one big ass kiss to elves. Despite it being called 'legion', only like 25% of the content in this expansion is legion related, they are if anything in the background, for the more forefronted elf fangasm. Night elves, blood elves, high elves, nightborn, night fallen, demon hunters, Maiev, the wardens, malfurion, tyrande, Azshara, and lets not forget ILLIDAN AS THE GREATEST OF THE GREATEST CHARACTERS THAT EVER DID LIVE ARRRUUUUGHH!!"

For all the bitching about WoD lore, at least there was reason for it having a more orc focused story, it was draenor, it was about the warlords of draenor, the orc clans, their home world, and even though despite that it still have some draenei lore in it. Yet in LEGION, an expansion that was meant to be focused on the LEGION, we barely have anything legion related, and it became the ELF EXPANSION.

That's funny...considering we see the demonic taint in every zone yet we don't see elves in every zone. I don't see elves running all over Highmountain or Stormheim.

So this area being the original home of the Night Elves, there shouldn't be lore for them?

I think someone is a Elf hater and just looking for a reason to bitch...

[krunksmash]

Nothing is proven even in the hall of lightning NE and trolls share different ''build''

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No, blood elves are just a renames, Go in WC3 frozen throne you will understand, Kael Thas Sunstrider renamed his people Blood elves in honor of all the fallen high elves during the third war (sunwell explosion after Kel Thuzad reanimation). That's it. Nothing more nothing less.

Blood elves = High elves

And if you did not pay attention or played WC3 xpac, they sided with horde because of a dumbass alliance human general was using blood elves as cannon fodder, sending them on perilous mission for a certain death and even calling them a lesser race.

I know this may be hard for you if your school did not teach critical thinking skills but try to think outside the tiny hole filled box of lore we have. as we have established that Blizzard avoids the genetics and other fine details of their races and sub-races like the plague, they give just enough info so they can tell a story. this leaves us the fans to fill in the holes left by the very basic lore. now I'll admit I'm getting very deep into this and not everyone will be able to or want to follow, but lets all try to not go running for the lore box of hole everytime we disagree please.

as for faction alignment that has nothing to do with the whole tread and I'm not sure why it was even brought up.

[Frontenac]

Highborne is a social class, a caste. They were the Kal'dorei nobility. Shendralar, High Elves, Blood Elves and Nightborne all have a highborne heritage. The High Elves still call themselves Quel'dorei, Highborne.

The Shendralar are still Night Elves, both biologically and culturally. They reintegrated the Night Elven community. Since the Night Elves do not recognize the old aristocracy, I doubt they are still called highborne by the Night Elves, though... Even thouugh they clearly are stemming from that group.

The Nightborne are no more Night Elves biologically, but their culture is still very close to the Night Elves. They do not only come from the night elven nobility: they are the night elven nobility, though mutated. It's not only history for them. It's the story of their lives.

The High/Blood Elves are both biologically and culturally different from the Night Elves. With the passing of generations, their culture turned to the Sun and became very different from their highborne ancestors', even if they still hold themselves the heirs of the highborne legacy.

To the Night Elves (including the Shendralar), the Nightborne are lost brothers and sisters. To the High/Blood Elves, they are uncles/aunts or cousins.

[Deleted]

Don't forget about the Fal'dorei, those Nerubian elf things.

[Aucald]

The Springer06 has been permanently banned as posting under false pretenses, don't assume its identity so quickly (this is the Internet, after all).

[Florena]

dude, this entire expansion is one big ass kiss to elves. Despite it being called 'legion', only like 25% of the content in this expansion is legion related, they are if anything in the background, for the more forefronted elf fangasm. Night elves, blood elves, high elves, nightborn, night fallen, demon hunters, Maiev, the wardens, malfurion, tyrande, Azshara, and lets not forget ILLIDAN AS THE GREATEST OF THE GREATEST CHARACTERS THAT EVER DID LIVE ARRRUUUUGHH!!"

For all the bitching about WoD lore, at least there was reason for it having a more orc focused story, it was draenor, it was about the warlords of draenor, the orc clans, their home world, and even though despite that it still have some draenei lore in it. Yet in LEGION, an expansion that was meant to be focused on the LEGION, we barely have anything legion related, and it became the ELF EXPANSION.

How is it any worse than WoD? Yes there's a lot of elf stuff, but I'd say there's more variety of elf stuff than there was a variety of orc stuff in WoD, at least from the point of view of an alliance character. And there's also plenty of non elven stuff.

The tauren get a whole zone.
Blue dragonflight lore.
Kirin Tor/Dalaran stuff.
Vry'kul/itatan construct stuff also fills a whole zone.
The druid stuff, while heavily night elf, isn't entirely night elves either as there are other druid races such as green dragons, Cenarius and other playable druid races.
Artifacts and class hall stories give closure to a good deal of lingering plot threads as well as giving some cool characters a few minutes in the spotlight.
A continuation of the Forsaken and Gilneas plots, which is likely to continue in patches.
The Draenei/Velen stuff which is also likely to be followed up on in patches as well as the army of the light stuff being brought in with Turalyon and the holy dreadlord whose name I forget off hand.

Yes, three of the five zones have heavy elf influences, but they also show different aspects of elven culture, unlike WoD where the clans just kind of melded together for me. "This clan uses void stuff, this clan is jungle crazy, this clan has paler skin.' We get to see glimpses of the highbourne, druids, their military from the WoA, the wardens etc. To me at least it feels like there's more variety than in the WoD orcs.

Sure the demon hunters are an elf focused group due to only being night/blood elves but really their whole identity is less about being an elnd more about their methods and drive to end the legion. The fact that only elves can be demon hunters doesn't really affect things much, if you swapped blood elves and night elves with dwarves and tauren it wouldn't really affect them very much. And the Illidari as a whole, while lead by a DH player charcter and illidan in general (though he's not there to do so at the moment), are not en antirely elf group either, consisting of naga, demon and broken forces as well.

And even then, just as it made sense to have a lot of orc stuff in draenor, this location also lends itself to ancient night elf lore. Is there a bit too much old night elf stuff going on? Maybe so, but considering they scrapped a patch zone that was going to be more night elf ruins for something cooler, I don't think the entire expansion will be just about elves either.

As for the Legion being underplayed, I agree it is a bit odd we don't see MORE of them, but they probably want to avoid 'demon fatigue' like how there was some orc fatigue people had in WoD and they even redid some places like Gorgrond and changing the end raid to compensate. But keep in mind that the main antagonist in Stormheim is working for the legion and we see demons towards the end of that storyline, the demon has a strong presence in Azsuna, the legion is secretly behind some bad stuff going on in Highmountain (though I forget if it was tied to the main bad guy we kill in the dungeon or not), it was because of Gul'dan that black rook hold went all undead, and that the legion is behind everything going bad in Suramar and demons even walk the streets there. They definitely have a strong presence even if they're not everywhere across the isles. Though it is possible they'll get usurped by N'zoth or something in the last patch similar to the Legion usurping the warlords in WoD, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

[Zulkhan]

The Nightborne are no more Night Elves biologically, but their culture is still very close to the Night Elves.

That's not really correct. What was once the "Night Elf nobility" is mostly embodied now by the Blood Elves. They are the direct discendants of that dynasty. Which makes Nightborne more similar to Night Elves from a physical standpoint but more similar to Blood Elves from a cultural one.

[Frontenac]

That's not really correct. What was once the "Night Elf nobility" is mostly embodied now by the Blood Elves. They are the direct discendants of that dynasty. Which makes Nightborne more similar to Night Elves from a physical standpoint but more similar to Blood Elves from a cultural one.

The use (and abuse) of the arcane is really the only cultural trait the Nightborne have with the High/Blood Elves. When you look at the other aspects (art, architecture, the focus on the night, moon, etc.), they look more night elven, in my opinion.

[ravenmoon]

As long as the expansion remains, nightborne will be about blood elves and night elves because it has to be 2 factions doing the quests

What was happening when we were helping the blood elves in TBC? Both factions were helping the blood elves, but the blood elves are neither an alliance nor night elf thing.

just because the blood elves are helping out doesn't somehow make the nightborne a blood elf thing. the blood elves and night elves for that matter are helping defeat the legion, not helping the nightborne. The only people group that are helping the nightborne are their broken isle night elf kin - like the Valewalker, the Moonguard, the Val'sharah druids and some demon hunters.

In 7.0 you have blood elves of the Reliquary trying to steal as many nightborne/highborne relics and artifacts to gain their power and have an advantage, that is not friendly talk. Furthermore, the most the blood elves feel for the nightborne is they "understand what they're going through, but they have forged their own path, their glory is their own" - and Tyrande doesn't consider the nightborne her people any more, she says "they were once my people a long time ago, but not any more" - she is referring to the nightborne who have allied with the Legion. It remains to see if Tyrande will warm up to Thalyssra.

Basically I wouldn't count on the help being specifically for the nightborne, although you kinda feel Tyrande does want to help her former people and city based on how they phrase the World Quests she gives you. But as others have pointed out, Tyrande is usually frosty and stern when you first meet her, but when she knows you're not evil demon lover, she becomes very nice and trusting. I expect that would be the most likely outcome for her, otherwise we shall never respect her character again.

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holy mother of all good, ravenmoon corrupted your innocent mind with his "night elvenness"

I think I have a fan. Or warlock is trying to impersonate me.

[TheFirstOnes]

Here we go again... /popcorn

Funny thing is, I already have popcorn right here with me. So, yay.

[The Stormbringer]

Elves are Elves. While I sincerely doubt Nightborne would join any Faction (they're far too prideful to drop themselves to the level of "lesser" races), if it did happen, I imagine they'd be Neutral to go with their Blood Elf and Night Elf kin depending on personal preference.

[Mehrunes]

The use (and abuse) of the arcane is really the only cultural trait the Nightborne have with the High/Blood Elves. When you look at the other aspects (art, architecture, the focus on the night, moon, etc.), they look more night elven, in my opinion.

Where do we see art of either race? Honestly, can't think of any. Maybe the Nightborne crown from Archaeology quest in Suramar, but in that case, I can't think of anything like that among the Night Elves.

[ravenmoon]

Also, I'm not sure who is saying but they are simply stated, wrong.

u know for a brief fraction of a sec I thought it was the guy from gamepedia, Mehrunes keeps flattering me over, then after reading a bit, I realized a warlock has let his little imp loose and is trying to troll me. Bad imp. Don't you know? No demons allowed !!

[Frontenac]

Where do we see art of either race? Honestly, can't think of any. Maybe the Nightborne crown from Archaeology quest in Suramar, but in that case, I can't think of anything like that among the Night Elves.

I mean the props you see in Suramar.

[ravenmoon]

That makes it a lot clearer.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not know the Nightwell changed them so much that Blizzard considers them a new race.

i don't think blizzard do - blizzard revealed what they meant by a new race -- they said a new race that's a very old race and explained these are the night elves of old.

It's just a couple of people on this forum have interpreted that to mean some completely new race, rather than what it is, a new race of night elf. But people are free to interpret the things they see as they see fit, even if it's off - blizzard talk about the nightborne in Chronicles, in the night elf section as part of that race at the end of which it states, transforms them into a new race. They then later reveal to you this new race is actually a very old race in th e official website intro to Suramar, and ofc, if you've been there you see a very night elven city and culture but it's not the nature one you're use to in Darnassus, it's an arcane one, like the one you read about in WotA, in fact exactly the one in WotA, becuase i't the city from there that they've brought to life in the game and which you are shown and told are night elves who've been affected by the nightwell, turning into this new night elf group.

It is quite clear what blizzard mean as they both show and say, your nightborne are a new night elf race.

but you have to bear in mind Kangodo, sometimes on this forum we get a bit too passionate, and questions over the smallest things blossom into huge silly arguments - which gets worse ofc when insults start flying, cos then the participants are taking it personally, and once that happens, they are often to proud to back down.

Here are the quotes, you make up your own mind based on what they've said and they've shown you in the game. Just be mindful on here that people's "fact" stating often tends to be loaded towards their interpretation, but this is a forum, one of it's purposes is to provide an area to air these differences, so don't be surprised, if you're like me you learn fast.







So despite it all, not to mention the night culture, the sabers, the night elf statues, the crescent moons all over the place, the arcane night saber mounts, some people still don't think of them as arcane version of the night elves - imo, they over read or find it hard to believe that not all night elves live or like living in trees or caves. Or maybe they find it hard to realize that a race can have several races in it. It's not like blizzard doesn't have precedence with other races. Like dwarves (earthern, frost, dark iron, bronzebeards etc), or trolls (zandalari, drakkari, amani, gurubashi) or blood elves (high/blood elves, darkfallen, fel elves, wretched, half elves) - but no, blizzard can't diversify the night elves - for some reason night elves must remain only tree folk and must never be expanded, so much so that when the clearly new race of arcane night elves is introduced, they are not night elves according to some, and blizzard doesn't view them as such, intentionally ignoring most of what blizzard says and taking it out of context.

So you're not wrong, they are a new race of night elves.. but some would prefer to believe that's not the case, which makes no sense to me. New race, new race of eles, new race of night elves all 3 are correct.

[Magnagarde]

All elves are originally night elves. Their alterations in appearance have been influenced by Warcraft's edition of Darwin's theory of evolution.

They are a newly discovered offshoot of former night elves, basically.

[The Stormbringer]

All elves are originally night elves. Their alterations in appearance have been influenced by Warcraft's edition of Darwin's theory of evolution.

They are a newly discovered offshoot of former night elves, basically.

And all Elves were originally Dark Trolls! Thus, Troll Master Race!