PVP - New Gear Reward System is FLAWED

[Deleted]

That's exactly what we used to have in previous expansions. We 'd grind a couple of afternoons in arenas or ashran, and then be on a completely even field with every pvp player, everywhere in the wow world, instanced or not, didn't matter whether they were gladiators or casual pvp lovers, skill would be the only difference. Pvp was fun! And the grind was fun too, cause you were playing pvp!

Legion comes, all that is destroyed. Now we got endless grinding, pve grinding included. No matter how good pvp rewards become, as long as there 's no pvp gear, and no weekly cap on progression, 90% of pvp players will be always behind on gear and artifact progression compared to people that raid or are highly rated on pvp. We 've all leveled and geared alts in the middle of seasons i presume, so we know how pvp feels like when you are underpowered (read: no fun)!

I bought legion 1 week late, cancelled after 2 days. Played through the month though, my guild is a good worldpvp guild (they re all doing pve now ), so it was easy to find ppl for mythics, mythic+, raids and heroic raid also. (which i 've never done in all the years i 've played wow since wotlk). Guess what, raids and stuff went swell, took about 15 minutes of guide watching to be decent, but .. i didn't like pve grinding that much. Played a lot, got the artifact to about level 20, gear to 850+something, honor 50, realized my pvp gameplay was similar to that while gearing up in previous expansions with most people being ahead, and all i was doing was WQs, and all the pve in the game. I could see many dedicated players in the guild only moving further ahead in strength (due to endless mythic+ / raid farming), so pvp would only be becoming more unfun in the future...

frankly, i don't feel like playing 12 hours a day to enjoy pvp in wow. Legion had better than ever pve with all the systems they incorporated from other games and stuff, but pvp was a disaster. Pruning, random legendaries were things many ppl didn't like, but the deal breakers for my were the inability to be on an even playing field in pvp while keeping the grind on a logical level. Seems the current system is only good for 2200+ rated players or pve players that don't care for pvp at all but just want to play a few bgs here and there. All the rest (90% of pvp players), what's left for them?

Personally, i miss wow, but have zero interest in playing subpar pvp, or grinding with no end to compete. If you are under the impression that pvp is "on an even field" now when facing players with higher artifact progression and higher item levels, i don't know, you guys remember playing pvp with a full conquest set? THAT was even! And fun! That legion thing.. meh..

You don't need to play 12 hours a day, and you don't need to pve to be competitive. Stat differences because of gear are extremely small, and you won't be too far behind in AP if you keep your research up. I literally just finished leveling my warlock to 110 and jumped into some arenas with my friend, I did perfectly fine and I only have 8 points in my artifact and 780 ilvl. I just missed my honor talents, and I'll get those in a few days.

It's also getting better this week with 7.1. You'll get a ton of AP from pvp, and gearing will be a lot easier than it is now. You'll get 860-865 ilvl gear (heroic raid level) from 1800 rating, whic isn't very hard to achieve.

[Kazuchika]

Won 3 BGs tonight. Got 2 healing potions, 48 gold and 98 order resources from them.

PvP in this game is a fucking joke when you don't even get shit for winning. I'm not saying I want 840 shit in the boxes but my god it makes it feel like such a fucking waste of time when you could go pick up squirrels for 5 times the resources or gold. It's fucking insulting.

[Deleted]

Won 3 BGs tonight. Got 2 healing potions, 48 gold and 98 order resources from them.

PvP in this game is a fucking joke when you don't even get shit for winning. I'm not saying I want 840 shit in the boxes but my god it makes it feel like such a fucking waste of time when you could go pick up squirrels for 5 times the resources or gold. It's fucking insulting.

Blizzard has acknowledged that was a mistake, and it's being changed in 2 days. Can we stop complaining about that now?

[Mafic]

Won 3 BGs tonight. Got 2 healing potions, 48 gold and 98 order resources from them.

PvP in this game is a fucking joke when you don't even get shit for winning. I'm not saying I want 840 shit in the boxes but my god it makes it feel like such a fucking waste of time when you could go pick up squirrels for 5 times the resources or gold. It's fucking insulting.

Even with the proposed changes in 7.1 it still going to be garbage as players will be receiving duplicate items.

[Osmeric]

Can we stop complaining about that now?

Not until the devs break down and cry in public.

[Kazuchika]

Even with the proposed changes in 7.1 it still going to be garbage as players will be receiving duplicate items.

It really is truly amazing how this game has gone on for 12 years strong and PvP in this game is still an utter dumpster fire that somehow seems to get worse as time goes on isn't it?

[rda]

It really is truly amazing how this game has gone on for 12 years strong and PvP in this game is still an utter dumpster fire that somehow seems to get worse as time goes on isn't it?

I agree.

I think this happens because they mostly don't care. That is, they have people like Ion Hazzikostas who live and breathe raids and relentlessly push them all the time - that's why raids, for example, were one of the few things in WoD that was perhaps on par with other expansions. But they have nobody like that for PVP. Holinka is a big joke, I don't know if he doesn't care or if he cares and it's that he's just stupid, but his rule has been a big stagnation with constant one step forward one step back. And the worst thing is, PVP was without sensible leadership for so long that making it good is now more of an uphill battle than ever. People are already accustomed to the fact that: (a) PVP balance is a joke, that (b) gearing main or gearing alts might be a pain, that (c) some of the specs are going to be crap (everybody who is "serious" about PVP has to be ready to switch specs every season, all discussions about that died like five years ago, it is now assumed that if you don't switch to a FOTM, it's your issue, you shouldn't really expect any results), etc, etc, etc. "If you want PVP, go play a MOBA, this is a PVE game." "What do you want from PVP, it's WoW."

[Gully Man]

I noticed the new patch notes say the item level will be based off your honor level, so it will still be rubbish compared to world quests. A freshly dinged level 110 will get up to 820-830ilvl fairly easily doing world quests. If the gear rewards from pvp are anything like the pvp world quests you won't be seeing ilvl 840 stuff until you're in the 20-30 honor level range, which by the time you've grinded that up you'll already be in similar ilvl gear from doing world quests. There's still no incentive to do BGs.

[Deleted]

I noticed the new patch notes say the item level will be based off your honor level, so it will still be rubbish compared to world quests. A freshly dinged level 110 will get up to 820-830ilvl fairly easily doing world quests. If the gear rewards from pvp are anything like the pvp world quests you won't be seeing ilvl 840 stuff until you're in the 20-30 honor level range, which by the time you've grinded that up you'll already be in similar ilvl gear from doing world quests. There's still no incentive to do BGs.

Or you can do RBGs and get at least 840+ gear.

[Gully Man]

Or you can do RBGs and get at least 840+ gear.

Yeah, but you still have the problem of getting duplicates (i had 3 trinkets over 5 weeks at one stage this season). It also ignores the vast amount of people who would do randoms every week, cap out their points and then buy an item. All sense of progression is gone for that crowd and the changes to gearing in 7.1 isn't fixing that. Personally all i ever did in WoD was BGs/RBGs. I liked knowing that even if i got a shitty trinket or duplicate from the bonus chest i could still get what i wanted off the vendor. I still do them now because 1 win is nothing, but once it goes up to needing 3 wins to get an item in 7.1 i don't think i'll bother. That can take a while depending on your luck with groups and is it really worth the effort when you might well end up vendoring the only thing you get out of it?

[Deleted]

Yeah, but you still have the problem of getting duplicates (i've had 3 trinkets the last 5 weeks). It also ignores the vast amount of people who would do randoms every week, cap out their points and then buy an item. All sense of progression is gone for that crowd and the changes to gearing in 7.1 isn't fixing that. Personally all i ever did in WoD was BGs/RBGs. I liked knowing that even if i got a shitty trinket or duplicate from the bonus chest i could still get what i wanted off the vendor. I still do them now because 1 win is nothing, but once it goes up to needing 3 wins to get an item in 7.1 i don't think i'll bother. That can take a while depending on your luck with groups and is it really worth the effort when you might well end up vendoring the only thing you get out of it?

Well, getting a repeat always sucks, but in 7.1 you'll get a piece of gear every RBG, on top of the weekly reward (which will be elite above 2k). They will also give really good AP so they will be well worth it.

Don't know what ilvl we'll get from random BGs, but it's not like gear from PVE queues is that great either.

[Gully Man]

Well, getting a repeat always sucks, but in 7.1 you'll get a piece of gear every RBG, on top of the weekly reward (which will be elite above 2k). They will also give really good AP so they will be well worth it.

Don't know what ilvl we'll get from random BGs, but it's not like gear from PVE queues is that great either.

I agree on the AP changes, that was needed and a good change. And you're right you'll get gear from every RBG win, but it won't be based off your item level/rating and will use the honor level system just the same as random battlegrounds. So the gear for winning a random BG or rated BG will be the same depending on your honor level (outside of the weekly reward based off your rating).

[Deleted]

And you're right you'll get gear from every RBG win, but it won't be based off your item level/rating and will use the honor level system just the same as random battlegrounds. So the gear for winning a random BG or rated BG will be the same depending on your honor level (outside of the weekly reward based off your rating).

Got a source for that? I was wondering if that gear would scale with rating, but I don't think the PVP changes post said anything about it. It'd be great to get a 880 piece every RBG win lol.

[Gully Man]

Got a source for that? I was wondering if that gear would scale with rating, but I don't think the PVP changes post said anything about it. It'd be great to get a 880 piece every RBG win lol.

No source it was just how i interpreted Blizzards post on the gearing changes. The section "Gear from pvp" mentions gearing better reflecting the progression path of world quests and gear being rewarded for each BG/RBG win as well as more frequently for skirmish/arena wins. Then they have a section talking about weekly bonus gear from rated pvp based off your rating. The way i read that is they are seperate from each other. Winning any form of BG/arena will give gear on a par with world quests and then you get your weekly piece based on your rating from rated pvp.

[Deleted]

I for one greatly appreciate the 805 items I get. Or mana potions. As a warrior.

/s

[Deleted]

No source it was just how i interpreted Blizzards post on the gearing changes. The section "Gear from pvp" mentions gearing better reflecting the progression path of world quests and gear being rewarded for each BG/RBG win as well as more frequently for skirmish/arena wins. Then they have a section talking about weekly bonus gear from rated pvp based off your rating. The way i read that is they are seperate from each other. Winning any form of BG/arena will give gear on a par with world quests and then you get your weekly piece based on your rating from rated pvp.

Well right now if I spam a lot of arenas/RBGs I can get more rating-scaling gear on top of the weekly piece. I'd rather have my 880 weekly piece and a chance for more every game, than a weekly 880 piece and 840 garbage every game.

I guess an 880 every win would be too strong, but not many people are going to play at 2k4+ anyway. They could make it so you get a piece every win, with a higher chance to titanforge depending on your rating. I guess we'll have to wait until 7.1 to see how it works.

[Mafic]

I agree.

I think this happens because they mostly don't care. That is, they have people like Ion Hazzikostas who live and breathe raids and relentlessly push them all the time - that's why raids, for example, were one of the few things in WoD that was perhaps on par with other expansions. But they have nobody like that for PVP. Holinka is a big joke, I don't know if he doesn't care or if he cares and it's that he's just stupid, but his rule has been a big stagnation with constant one step forward one step back. And the worst thing is, PVP was without sensible leadership for so long that making it good is now more of an uphill battle than ever. People are already accustomed to the fact that: (a) PVP balance is a joke, that (b) gearing main or gearing alts might be a pain, that (c) some of the specs are going to be crap (everybody who is "serious" about PVP has to be ready to switch specs every season, all discussions about that died like five years ago, it is now assumed that if you don't switch to a FOTM, it's your issue, you shouldn't really expect any results), etc, etc, etc. "If you want PVP, go play a MOBA, this is a PVE game." "What do you want from PVP, it's WoW."

The template system is supposed to make it easy on Holinka to tweak things but then he contradicts the entire premise behind the prestige system by saying they will start tweaking the template system once PVE balancing was done.

Holinka isn't even a real dev based on what we have seen happen the last year with Legion development. He is simply a figure head with side jobs.

[Nappydwarf]

So a question from someone who hasn't played pvp this whole expansion, when you got/get a piece of gear from a random bg, which models do they use? Do you get the same cosmetic armor from doing random and rated content?

[Snegovik]

So a question from someone who hasn't played pvp this whole expansion, when you got/get a piece of gear from a random bg, which models do they use? Do you get the same cosmetic armor from doing random and rated content?

there is an elite pvp set, you can only get it after you hit 2k cr or above. the normal pvp set cosmetic you can get from random bgs or sub 2k cr

[Xuvial]

IPvP has been reduced to the players who really wanted to do it, rather than those motivated primarily by the usefulness of the rewards.

I think that's fine.

Mind you the artifact power reward from daily BG win is pretty tempting though.

Surprise, the remaining players are a rather small minority.

That's always been the case anyway, since the inception of WoW PvP. It has always been a joke (and will always be a joke), so of course only a minority will be interested in it.