Aimed Shot nerf

[Deleted]

Wasnt that change only for PvP combat?

[Sarevokcz]

You got anymore of those tinfoil hats laying around Slicer? Wouldn't mind one. Gotta protect my brain from the sadists that wants specs to have niches rather than be versatile at everything :^).

niches are fine. as long as they are baseline, otherwise the spec is forced to take mandatory talents, forcing hunter to sidewinders/PS/barrage is the exact opposite of what they just said to Spriests, that they want to provide alternatives to S2M and not nerf them in the meantime...

[Deleted]

They have literally said in one of the most recent Q/A's that the "Bring the player, not the class" statement is not actually true anymore; It was made as a response to the insane class stacking that TBC created, and their intention to alleviate it to some degree. If you haven't been keeping count, TBC was four expansions ago now. Things change. Specs are made for various niches in order to complete different roles. Your idea of "have everyone be equal" is boring as fuck, because it means your class choice and and playstyle would not matter or differ from anyone else; You'd all be equal.

No it doesn't mean they are boring as fuck, thats just pointless blabbering. the playstyle can be different, yet on equal grounds. You shouldn't pick a class because it's good at "raid mechanic X" in the first place, you should play the lore and theme you like and at no point in time did Blizzard try to achieve anything else. Everything else would force you into decisions you might now want, see SV hunter for example that is not being played because it's not performing on equal grounds.

As for the whole "IT JUST MAKES CLEAVE TALENTS STRONGER!" How do you figure? You'll be doing slightly less damage with the nerf, be it on cleave or singletarget. Your cleave didn't get stronger. It just became a proportionally (slightly) bigger part of your damage.

Which is basically the same thing. It was more of a visual example anyway. If your ST abilities get nerfed, talents that build up on those will be weaker too.

In any case, you seem to not be getting the point; You shouldn't be ABLE to spec into "More ST" or "More cleave" if what blizzard intends is for MM to be great at cleave and bad at singletarget. You should just be able to cleave really fucking good (and it's not even true that you can't; Barrage vs AMOC, hello?).
Talents define a spec. Saying that it's "Not the MM hunter that is great at cleaving boss rooms, it's SW and patient sniper" is just as dumb as saying "It's not shadow priests that are good at melting faces and topping DPS charts, it's Surrender to madness". Or "It's not Fire mages that are great at melting M+ trash; It's living bomb". SW and Patient sniper is part of MM's identity, just like those talents currently are.
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Specs do normally have to sacrifice X to get Y with the new talent system, see Warlocks for example that have to choose between AoE talents and ST talents. So why exactly "shouldn't" I be able to do that? Right now, there is no ST spec for hunters that perfom exceptionally better than the cookie cutter cleave build. The only difference between these two is AmoC and Barrage and tbh. both seem to be fairly equal no matter the fight.
Why even have all these talents if they are never chosen or even remotely competitive to each other.
It's not like explosive shot or sentinel is easier to use than Patient Sniper. Or piercing shot/trick shot more versatile. They should be just as much part of a hunters identity as SW and Patient Sniper.
I don't see your point here. If they are supposed to be mandatory, make them baseline and not talents, otherwise there is no point in the talent system.

What blizzard is doing with their Q&As is trying to justify their poor design choices, nothing more and nothing less. They are talking under the pretense of "homogenisation" (I'm not even sure they do, but if you say so... it seems to be inter-spec related and not inter-class) even though barely anyone, if anyone at all saw that as a problem before Legion. And whatever they tried to do, it's not like it's any better or worse now?
The only issue I can relate to that would be the Mage vs Warlock debate (destruction vs fire) and that didn't get any better at all... in fact, it's probably gotten worse.

[Makro]

All this talking about different specs having different niches would make more sense if we had a spec that excels at ST, while right now we (apparently) have:
- MM, niche = spread cleave
- BM, niche = sustained, stacked up AoE
- SV, niche = ????

So BM is good in a situation that usually doesn't even exists in relevant raiding content, while SV is not particularly good at anything and, even if it was, it would still be a melee spec, so switching to it on demand would be problematic for a hunter in a well established raiding roster.

Honestly, I'm more inclined to believe that Blizzard is afraid MM will scale too well with gear (it does, expecially with weapon ilvl) and decided to tune the spec through AiS.

[DeicideUH]

Specs do normally have to sacrifice X to get Y with the new talent system, see Warlocks for example that have to choose between AoE talents and ST talents. So why exactly "shouldn't" I be able to do that? Right now, there is no ST spec for hunters that perfomnce exceptionally better than the cookie cutter cleave build. The only difference between these two is AmoC and Barrage and tbh. both seem to be fairly equal no matter the fight.
Why even have all these talents if they are never chosen or even remotely competitive to each other.
It's not like explosive shot or sentinel is easier to use than Patient Sniper. Or piercing shot/trick shot more versatile. They should be just as much part of a hunters identity as SW and Patient Sniper.
I don't see your point here. If they are supposed to be mandatory, make them baseline and not talents, otherwise there is no point in the talent system.

That's right.

What's the point of talents if there's a single build that is better at everything? If MM was meant to be the spread cleave spec, then it should be baseline.

[Gaaz]

sv=st dps

Good luck pulling more DPS single target with survival, than with both MM and BM. Survival is better on paper, but that does not mean it can realistically and consistently pull these numbers off outside of a simulation.
Unless Blizz will buff it to something like 30% above MM levels (in theoretical numbers at least), personally I see little reason taking SV to a raid. I would rather have a rogue extra if I need to take another melee.

[Deleted]

Good luck pulling more DPS single target with survival, than with both MM and BM. Survival is better on paper, but that does not mean it can realistically and consistently pull these numbers off outside of a simulation.
Unless Blizz will buff it to something like 30% above MM levels (in theoretical numbers at least), personally I see little reason taking SV to a raid. I would rather have a rogue extra if I need to take another melee.

well SV hunter doese more dmg than mm and bm on single target so why u need good luck ? its just that not that much ppl. play him and even less can play him.

[Deleted]

Thing is, they're not looking to nerf our cleave. You guys don't seem to understand that simple fact; They're fine with us being the best class on multitarget/cleave encounters. They just don't want us to also do decently well on pure singletarget. Our cleave potential HAS to come at a cost. No rogue or warlock spec is best at both AOE and singletarget (outside of fringe RNG procs as Outlaw).

You might think "we're mid table on singletarget, why the fuck would they nerf that?" but it's really simple; They want us to be low on pure singletarget, because we're strong elsewhere.

To use a current example; Shadow priests has a TON of selfhealing from VT, making them very self-sustainable on most fights. Because of their great general defense/self healing, their reactive cooldown (Dispersion) was nerfed to no longer be "essentially" and immunity (90% reduc made most solo-soak abilities doable). Giving them BOTH an "immunity" AND great self-sustain is too versatile a toolkit. One could argue that because of their self healing mechanic, they could live without a cooldown at all. It's the exact same scenario, but for DPS in our case.

Well as hard playing hunter then how you gona to convice me to not switch to any other class.Before i did not pick up the Hunter because his damage but because his utility.Blizzard fuck up almost the entire set of hunter`s tools and now you say that i have to pick up MM because he can do damage on Xavius and meanwhile other 2 specs are worth only for doing World quests???

[threads]

All this talking about different specs having different niches would make more sense if we had a spec that excels at ST, while right now we (apparently) have:
- MM, niche = spread cleave
- BM, niche = sustained, stacked up AoE
- SV, niche = ????

So BM is good in a situation that usually doesn't even exists in relevant raiding content, while SV is not particularly good at anything and, even if it was, it would still be a melee spec, so switching to it on demand would be problematic for a hunter in a well established raiding roster.

Honestly, I'm more inclined to believe that Blizzard is afraid MM will scale too well with gear (it does, expecially with weapon ilvl) and decided to tune the spec through AiS.

sv should be the ST spec but nobody wants to play a dumpster melee spec so just accept hunter will not be a ST class this xpac.

[Marrilaife]

If you say so man. And all classes act like this not just hunters.

Yeah, go to mage forums and see rivers of tears over pyroblast nerf and claims "but mages weren't top dps!"

Instead of nerfing, why don't they just buff others?

Oh they are buffing others, but the extent of these buffs is sometimes laughable. Unholy DK buff to death coil and ele shaman rework of artifact ability won't suddenly make them top specs, I predict they'll still be garbage tier. UH DK is already a 3-min wonder spec, outside of their cooldowns they do extremely poorly. Actually DKs might start switching to frost after recent buffs despite Blizzard claiming they won't do swings that invalidate people's investments in artifacts (hello outlaw, hello wide switch from destro to demo on locks).

I wonder if fury warrior after all the buffs will actually become any good.

On the other hand they can't buff everyone up without trivializing encounters unless you want 15 second bosses like in late HFC. Therefore nerfs to things like feral or firemage.

[Shynzo]

Well, this nerf ins't in the patch notes, reverted maybe?

[Slicer299]

Well, this nerf ins't in the patch notes, reverted maybe?

Or they forgot to put in the notes, or it will come via a hot fix in another week or two. It was only added via the last PTR update less than a week ago, so the may be pretending to test it more. They havent listened to Hunters for over a year now, I don't expect them to start listening to us now.

[Thursley]

They pretty regularly fail to put late additions in the patch notes, though it does look like they captured the other changes from the same round as the aimed shot nerfs to other classes (at least for the quick sample I checked). I guess we'll see tomorrow.

[Sombrero]

Vulnerable now increases damage by 50% (was 25%), stacking up to 2 times (was 3 times).

isn't this like a huge buff? no playing hunter myself

[keygy]

Vulnerable now increases damage by 50% (was 25%), stacking up to 2 times (was 3 times).

isn't this like a huge buff? no playing hunter myself

well not really, that vulnerable buff its from the base vulnerable, every mm hunter use sniper

[sarym13]

Vulnerable now increases damage by 50% (was 25%), stacking up to 2 times (was 3 times).

isn't this like a huge buff? no playing hunter myself

That's for Base Vulnerable. If you're not spec'd into Patient Sniper yes it is a very nice buff.. However even with this buff, Patient Sniper is the go to talent. So if you're for some reason not spec'd into Patient Sniper.. Congratulations?

[Halyon]

Vulnerable is not being used atm, MM hunters all go for Patient Sniper, so this is not a buff.

Maybe it'll be viable now then, instead of pigeon-holing people into specific playstyles because anything else is garbage. Over-arching problem.

[darahion]

Official patch notes are out....No aimed shot nerfs.

[Ninjeff]

Interesting because I see this.
Marksmanship
Aimed Shot A powerful aimed shot that deals [ 0.619 * 215% --> 204% of weapon damage or 0.038 * Level * 215% of weapon damage + 0.238 * 215% of weapon damage or 215% --> 204% of weapon damage + 0.238 * 204% of weapon damage or 204% of weapon damage ] Physical damage.

11% Weapon Dmg Nerf to Aimed shot. Maybe this was before the "official patch notes" though?

[Pipboi]

Vulnerable is not being used atm, MM hunters all go for Patient Sniper, so this is not a buff.

And this buff to Vulnerable won't change anything.
Patient Sniper uptime can be near constant right now, until that changes it's going to remain mandatory.