Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[-Joker-]

Big mistake.

The issue is only going to be continue and become stronger.

You say that about everything you are not happy with.

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Nice catch.

Whelp, this thread is done, until after Blizzcon.

My thoughts as well.

[Pann]

When that course of action results in lower profit per product sold, yes.

You answered your own question in your last post.

Yeah. Ridiculous. Call me when you find a MMO game developer that thinks the idea of adapting a game to newer hardware 'ridiculous'.

Why would an MMO developer need to adapt their product to work with a new monitor? Especially when their product already works with modern hardware? Returning to this point but trying to wriggle out of what you said only serves to highlight the absurdity of it.

Every single Blizzard game sustains itself. Vanilla servers wouldn't. No sell price, no cash shop, no sub fee. No return whatsoever. It'd only be a parasite.

How do you know classic servers would not support themselves? Do you access to some market research? I'd be interested to see the figures that support this claim.

[Gadzooks]

You mean like those private servers hosted in Russia that have even more players than Nost? Oh wait, they haven't been sued. And neither will Nostalrius.

The servers may be in Russia, but unless the Nost team moves en masse to Russia, they can be served just as easily as they were the first time.

And, Russia is not a copyright haven, and Blizzard can sue there just as easily as France, Germany, Italy, or any other country on that continent.

[Ielenia]

Nostalrius is a fish in a sea. A unusually large fish, but, still in a sea with other fishes close to their size.

Doesn't answer my question. You said Nostalrius shut down not because of the C&D, but because they tended to profit from the situation. That implies they have complete disregard to what Blizzard wishes to do with their own IP.

[Gadzooks]

No, Nostalrius' crew mostly live in France, and that's a company Blizzard can sue them from. They can't force the server to be shut down, but they can sue the people running the server.

Who says they can't force the server to be shut down? Russia is a member of WIPO and are signatories of the Berne Convention, and Russian firms and citizens get sued all the time.

Oh, wait, you've been listening to the Legacy crusaders, who just make shit up, haven't you?

[Mahourai]

Vineri wasn't trying to say Nostalrius profited from the shutdown or from being up. He wasn't saying anything coherent - the post that Legacy servers will not be announced or discussed at Blizzcon has apparently broken his brain. He also talks like Mark Kern was somehow involved with Nostalrius, and that Brack's announcement means the exact opposite of what it says.

[Ielenia]

Why would an MMO developer need to adapt their product to work with a new monitor?

Again with the sole focus on the monitors. Seriously, it's becoming laughable, now.

How do you know classic servers would not support themselves?

You have your own answer in the very line you quoted. But I'll do you one favor and repeat them: no sell price, no cash shop, and no sub fee. If the product brings in no money at all, how will it sustain itself? By goodwill and wishing upon a star?

[Gadzooks]

I agree with you, but at the same time, I hope that they have lied about the time slots to hide an announcement or something, otherwise its got very little time again.

It's getting as much time as any of the other titles, except wow, which is getting an hour on the mainstage. The schedule is pretty balanced for all of the games.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Who says they can't force the server to be shut down? Russia is a member of WIPO and are signatories of the Berne Convention, and Russian firms and citizens get sued all the time.

Oh, wait, you've been listening to the Legacy crusaders, who just make shit up, haven't you?

The power of hope and wishful thinking.

[Holtzmann]

Who says they can't force the server to be shut down? Russia is a member of WIPO and are signatories of the Berne Convention, and Russian firms and citizens get sued all the time.

Oh, wait, you've been listening to the Legacy crusaders, who just make shit up, haven't you?

Dude, back off. I meant that they can't force the server to be shut down with a lawsuit filed against the operators of Nostalrius in France, because those can just pass the server along to a third party if they really wanted to bring the server back up regardless of any personal consequences to them (and I don't think they're that stupid). What Blizzard does in Russia is up to Blizzard's lawyers, and I'll remind you that I said in this very thread that Blizzard has offices in Russia that manage their Russian-language servers, so they already have a legal presence in that country. They wouldn't have released the game there if they didn't think they could defend their IP.

[Vineri]

Doesn't answer my question. You said Nostalrius shut down not because of the C&D, but because they tended to profit from the situation. That implies they have complete disregard to what Blizzard wishes to do with their own IP.

Draw your own conclusions. C&D was issued; Nostalrius shut down. The other hosts in EU did not comply. Yes, EU, not Russia. EU sites are popular because they give decent pings to, not only themselves, but to NA. Russian servers have dreadful latency; they are not very popular to others outside of Russia.

If PVP might even remotely interest you, in old specs, I wouldn't recommend a Russian server. The retail game might reward you for failure, but Legacy sure as hell won't.

[vindicatorx]

People are still talking about this? It's not financially viable for Blizzard to waste the time and resources to make legacy servers. Why is this hard to get? Unlike live servers legacy servers are stagnant with no new content. You really expect a investment of several million dollars to get legacy servers up and running when with really optimistic numbers you might get a million subscribers. What do you think the decay curve for subscriptions will be for old content that most have already done and are just wanting to try it again as it was? Let's be realistic if you didn't play wow and were an investor would you be ok with them wasting your investment for no return? No, you wouldn't you would tell them to make you as much money as possible. Legacy servers aren't going to do that.

[Gadzooks]

And the there was Gadzooks..

Kern's Inaction speaks volumes. I imagine you won't defend him, but you also like to harass anyone opposing him? You like the middle ground, gotcha.

He's working on a new game, and not at Blizzard. He posts about it on his twitter. So his NOT talking about working ta Blizzard means he's working at Blizzard? Really?

Just admit you made that up completely. So calling someone out for lying is harrassment? Are you serious? How old are you, 12? No, that's an insult to 12 year olds. I'm thinking 7. Still old enough to believe in Santa Claus, but can use big adult words.

And I'm laughing my ass off right now, before you lie again and accuse me of being angry. Your flights of fantasy are funny, you do know that nobody takes you seriously, and just laugh at you, right? You know that, right? You have to know that.

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If you are leaving this thread 'til after, cya! See you after BlizzCon mate!

Who said anything about leaving? You do like to make things up, don't you?

[Deleted]

Alright, alright. Some top tier straw-grasping incoming.

From today's blizz post (http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...78358?page=1):
"we won’t have any updates to share on that until after the show."

Over on Nostalrius (http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44449):
"every end is a new beginning"

They're in cahoots and something will happen shortly after blizzcon.

"Blizzcon is in a few days now : every end is a new beginning "

Do they know anything we don't? Nah...do they?
Anyway i'll join your grasping at straws.

[Gadzooks]

Dude, back off. I meant that they can't force the server to be shut down with a lawsuit filed against the operators of Nostalrius in France, because those can just pass the server along to a third party if they really wanted to bring the server back up regardless of any personal consequences to them (and I don't think they're that stupid). What Blizzard does in Russia is up to Blizzard's lawyers, and I'll remind you that I said in this very thread that Blizzard has offices in Russia that manage their Russian-language servers, so they already have a legal presence in that country. They wouldn't have released the game there if they didn't think they could defend their IP.

Do you understand how lawsuits work? If the operators are sued, part of that lawsuit is they agree to take the servers down. If they get sued, and continue to let the servers run, they risk further sanctions from the court, including contempt charges, which can have jail sentences attached to them if they're severe enough. "Passing the server on" would trigger such penalties.

And stop with the "back off" nonsense. I have every right to post here as you do.

[Holtzmann]

Do you understand how lawsuits work? If the operators are sued, part of that lawsuit is they agree to take the servers down. If they get sued, and continue to let the servers run, they risk further sanctions from the court, including contempt charges, which can have jail sentences attached to them if they're severe enough. "Passing the server on" would trigger such penalties.

And stop with the "back off" nonsense. I have every right to post here as you do.

I get that you don't like Nostalrius and anyone who might even look like they're defending Nostalrius, but this is the thing: I don't like Nostalrius and I'm not defending Nostalrius.

My point is precisely that if the Nostalrius operators decide to be as monumentally idiotic as to pass the server along to an unspecified third party -- or simply release the metadata and the character database to the public via P2P networks -- while being sued by Blizzard (read: ignoring proper legal procedure and risking even harsher punishments in the process), Blizzard would have to prepare a different lawsuit to get whoever had caught that hot potato. Never did I say anything about Blizzard not being able to shut down a Russian server, either (read the last two sentences of the post you quoted). I meant that a lawsuit against Nostalrius' crew in France would not stop the server from being onlined somewhere else by someone else if that information got out.

That's the entire reason they didn't want Nostalrius to release that data to the public: Blizzard doesn't feel like playing Nostalrius whack-a-mole. With very good reason: their time and resources can be better spent somewhere else.

Of course, this all could have been avoided if Nostalrius and their advertising brigade hadn't started posting about it in the official forums. Sure, Nost was big, but they didn't have anything that other servers don't also have beyond the cocky attitude that put them in Blizzard's legal team's sight to serve as an example. And good riddance to them, too.

[Gadzooks]

I get that you don't like Nostalrius and anyone who might even look like they're defending Nostalrius, but this is the thing: I don't like Nostalrius and I'm not defending Nostalrius.

My point is precisely that if the Nostalrius operators decide to be as monumentally idiotic as to pass the server along to an unspecified third party -- or simply release the metadata and the character database to the public via P2P networks -- while being sued by Blizzard (read: ignoring proper legal procedure and risking even harsher punishments in the process), Blizzard would have to prepare a different lawsuit to get whoever had caught that hot potato. Never did I say anything about Blizzard not being able to shut down a Russian server, either (read the last two sentences of the post you quoted). I meant that a lawsuit against Nostalrius' crew in France would not stop the server from being onlined somewhere else by someone else if that information got out.

That's the entire reason they didn't want Nostalrius to release that data to the public: Blizzard doesn't feel like playing Nostalrius whack-a-mole. With very good reason: their time and resources can be better spent somewhere else.

Of course, this all could have been avoided if Nostalrius and their advertising brigade hadn't started posting about it in the official forums. Sure, Nost was big, but they didn't have anything that other servers don't also have beyond the cocky attitude that put them in Blizzard's legal team's sight to serve as an example. And good riddance to them, too.

When did I ever say I don't like Nostralius? Please post the link. I refuse to respond to anything else until you do so. Lying about me won't prove anything - put your money where your mouth is, then we'll talk.

[Vineri]

He's working on a new game, and not at Blizzard. He posts about it on his twitter. So his NOT talking about working ta Blizzard means he's working at Blizzard? Really?

Just admit you made that up completely. So calling someone out for lying is harrassment? Are you serious? How old are you, 12? No, that's an insult to 12 year olds. I'm thinking 7. Still old enough to believe in Santa Claus, but can use big adult words.

And I'm laughing my ass off right now, before you lie again and accuse me of being angry. Your flights of fantasy are funny, you do know that nobody takes you seriously, and just laugh at you, right? You know that, right? You have to know that.

Then you do defend Mark Kern.

It got you in a tizzy about the subject, after all.

There was a time when Mark Kern wanted to impress Blizzard. But now he's really just wanting to make other games, via Twitter. Now that his Blizzard Legacy dev dreams got dashed. Oh, you.

As to the rest of the post, it's not very discussionable, just a series of mindless insults. I'm not the type to report, but take a step back and look at how you present yourself. All in all, it is evident I did in-fact, hit a nerve.

Who said anything about leaving? You do like to make things up, don't you?

SRC:

Whelp, this thread is done, until after Blizzcon. Oh, I'm sure you kiddies will argue over what "update" means - but the key phrase is "We're still discussing the possibility" - which means nothing has changed at all since the Nost meeting. No work has been done, no plans made, no decisions made. It's so low priority, they're not even going to waste time discussing it in a Q&A panel.
< SNIP >
Oh well.

If you feel this thread is done, until after Blizzcon, then I assume you will not be returning until after. Do you mean to inform this thread that you lied?

[Racthoh]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. When you buy one, get one free you're essentially paying for both and the company is absorbing the hit by selling more. In a situation like that if I'm not going to eat the two pizzas I'd rather just pay half and get the one I want.

good luck telling blizzard you're gonna start paying only $7 a month for your sub because you don't want to play their new game mode.

Sounds like a promotion. If that's the case, the 'vanilla servers' would be only temporarily available to the public, but that isn't the case, is it?

why would it be temporary?

You're assuming the sub price would stay the same as it is. If it's rolled into the subscription price, it's much more likely the sub price would increase due to increased staff hiring, training, and hardware/software adaptations.

no chance the main realms sub price would increase. they're not stupid. it's either a separate subscription or included for free in the current subscription. and the idea is to gain new/returning subs not split what's left into two categories. they've got nothing to lose by offering vanilla realms to current subscribers.

[Scooby Dooby Doo]

Nobody would pay consistent monthly sub for Vanilla wow.

eh idk about that. my 70 twink kept me playing the game / paying the sub for 8 years.