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...Back? Note that this NPC was added in 7.1. And that means that it's not about that echo in DK artifact questline. And look at his title. Looks like the guy who had the theory about Bolvar actually being taken over by Ner'zhul was actually right. Is it a new raid in 7.2 or base for later expansion?
http://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=95946/nerzhul#comments
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Thread: Ner'zhul is ... [Spoilers]
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2016-10-25, 05:21 PM #1Mechagnome
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Ner'zhul is ... [Spoilers]
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2016-10-25, 05:24 PM #2The Patient
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Hahaha if it is true then I was not wrong about it. Let's wait and see how it finally ends.
PD: It could also be something about the Caverns of Time too because it's been a while since we had the last dungeon/raid in it.Last edited by Ryon21; 2016-10-25 at 05:28 PM.
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2016-10-25, 05:29 PM #3The Patient
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But but but... the book clearly states that Arthas "killed" both his humanity and Ner'Zhul's spirit at the end...
So it's propably something frost DK related. Where you may witness the echoes of past Lich Kings or something.
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2016-10-25, 05:32 PM #4Deleted
Maybe Blizzard changed their mind and MU Ner'zhul still exists. It's not unheard of considering all the fan theories and loose ends they addressed in Legion (Calia Menethil for example).
Another reason Ner'zhul could've been ignored in Wrath of the Lich King is because the newer players simply didn't know the character since he last appeared in Warcraft 2 (although the Lich King appeared in Warcraft 3 he was never called Ner'zhul so it's easy to miss the connection). But now that players have seen Ner'zhul in Warlords of Draenor, it's possible that they bring him back as the Lich King.
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2016-10-25, 05:33 PM #5The Patient
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Yeah probably true but in the book the story is told by what the characters sees so if something happen that they don't know the book won't tell it.
Originally Posted by Zeph76
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2016-10-25, 05:33 PM #6DeletedIt's only implied, it only states the spirit of Ner'zhul disappears if I recall correctly. Not that he's utterly destroyed, that's what fans make of it. Originally Posted by Zeph76
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2016-10-25, 05:33 PM #7Mechagnome
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How is it possible to kill a spirit? He stabbed his spirit with Frostmourne. What does Frostmourne do to souls? Destroys them? No. Traps them, that's it. Arthas removed him from Helm to FM, thus seizing full control. But spirits are immortal. And when Frostmourne was shattered, he was free - and go back to the Helm. And nothing Bolvar could do to remove him from there. Originally Posted by Zeph76
And Ner'zhul foresaw that Frostmourne will be destroyed, too.
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2016-10-25, 05:34 PM #8Moderator
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In the early Alpha the echoes of Ner'zhul and Arthas were both flagged as "<The Lich King>" during the battle within Frostmourne (part of the Frost DK Artifact scenario). Both NPC's were changed to "Echo of X" later on in development, probably to discount from theories they both were still extant in some manner or another. This NPC is probably a re-tread of that NPC, not too uncommon for the PTR iteration process. It's also possible it will be a future NPC in a memory-like scenario for DK's.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
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2016-10-25, 05:35 PM #9Over 9000!
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The hidden artifact appearance for Frost death knights still hasn't been discovered, and echoes of both Arthas and Ner'zhul show up when you first acquire the frost artifact. This NPC might be related to that somehow.
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2016-10-25, 05:39 PM #10Mechagnome
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But he was added later, in 7.1 Originally Posted by Golden Yak
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2016-10-25, 05:43 PM #11Over 9000!
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Yeah, I'm not convinced all the artifact appearances were available in 7.0, I think a few might have been held back 'til now. Originally Posted by Explorer
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2016-10-25, 05:45 PM #12The Insane
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Arthas murders the manifestation of his humanity, then destroys Ner'zhul: Originally Posted by Hardstyler01
“We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner’zhul, no more Arthas—only this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can—”
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
Arthas stepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the dream-being that had once been Ner’zhul, then the Lich King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
“No,” Arthas whispered. “No we. No one tells me what to do. I’ve got everything I need from you—now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready.”
The orc shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished.
...
Arthas, the Lich King, alone in his glory and power, slowly opened his eyes.
--Rise of the Lich King
In the manga Legends: Fate, Arthas says, "Ner'zhul is no more. He is consumed. There is only Arthas now..."
During BlizzCon 2010, Metzen said Arthas was the ultimate expression of the LK and that Ner'zhul is finished:
Originally Posted by Cris Metzen
The Ask CDev says Ner'zhul and Arthas had separate reigns as Lich King:
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Metzen says Ner'zhul is completely gone:
Originally Posted by Chris Metzen
I don't remember when Loreology posted this tweet, but it was sometime in 2014 before Aug 3. All his tweets disappeared when he deleted his account.
Originally Posted by Blizzard EntertainmentOkay, my friend and I are at each other's throats over this. Is Ner'zhul's spirit destroyed canonically or not?
So it seems per the Arthas novel (p. 307).
(Loreology)
Blizzard initially intended the Lich King to be a blend of Arthas and Ner'zhul, but they changed the direction they went with that character. The Lich King was just Arthas.
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There's no location or context for that NPC ID... Also, there is a discrepancy in the dating. The NPC says added in 7.0.1, but the comments regarding it date back to 2015 and 6.2.3. Originally Posted by Explorer
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2016-10-25 at 05:48 PM.
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2016-10-25, 05:46 PM #13The Lightbringer
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The arms warrior hidden appearance isn't available till 7.1, very possible the frost one is in the same boat. Originally Posted by Explorer
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2016-10-25, 05:46 PM #14Scarab Lord
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Why do you say he was added in 7.1 when comments clearly are from 2015?
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2016-10-25, 05:52 PM #15The Insane
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This NPC was added to 7.0.1 in 2015. The PTR version is for 7.1. Both are the same thing.
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=95946/nerzhul
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...zhul-in-LegionLast edited by Aquamonkey; 2016-10-25 at 05:55 PM.
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2016-10-25, 05:57 PM #16DeletedPretty sure the book stated the Lich King destroyed Arthas' humanity as well. That would mean there is no more Arthas either, only a pure evil known as the Lich King. And yet Arthas' humanity shows up after defeating him in Icecrown. Originally Posted by Aquamonkey
Blizzard can change their mind. That was long ago. Maybe they're a sucker for the popular fan theory now, who knows. Times change and Metzen isn't around anymore.
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2016-10-25, 05:59 PM #17The Insane
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Arthas was Arthas, this is described as such in the novel and other materials. The PoV is from Arthas in the novel as well. The piece of his humanity is presented as a separate entity. This is a manifestation, like the trope of a devil and angel on one's shoulders, but it is still separate from the Arthas of the narrative perspective, not his true identity. Originally Posted by Hardstyler01
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2016-10-25 at 06:01 PM.
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2016-10-25, 06:04 PM #18Titan
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Except we had no pre-existing knowledge about the death of Calia Menethil. We know for a fact though that Ner'zhul got destroyed by Arthas. Originally Posted by Hardstyler01
Never wondered why that "humanity" popped out all of a sudden, within an entity that shown none of it until that point? It was blatantly tied to Frostmourne's destruction and the releasing of Arthas' own soul among all the others. In fact, that very bit of humanity Arthas "destroyed" in the book was actually said to be finally claimed by Frostmourne, along the rest of his soul that was already stolen by the blade. Originally Posted by Hardstyler01
Originally Posted by Keyblader
Originally Posted by Heladys
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2016-10-25, 06:10 PM #19Moderator
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Wasn't the incarnation of Arthas' remaining humanity present as the child-spirit named "Matthias Lehner" and subsequently destroyed when the Ebon Blade and the Argent Crusade destroyed Arthas' heart at the Cathedral of Darkness during the WotLK quest "Tirion's Gambit?"
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
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2016-10-25, 06:44 PM #20Titan
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It seemed more like a shadow of Arthas' humanity attached to the heart, which is pretty much the reason why Tirion ultimately decided to destroy it. Originally Posted by Aucald
Highlord Tirion Fordring says: The heart... the last remaining vestige of your humanity. I had to stop it from being destroyed. I had to see for myself. And at last I'm sure...
Highlord Tirion Fordring says: Only shadows from the past remain. There's nothing left to redeem! Originally Posted by Keyblader
Originally Posted by Heladys
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