Karazhan Difficulty and Length

[CausalXXLinkXx]

The dungeon was great. A+

[OrcsRLame]

I don't think Maiden is even possible with 3 melee, at least at a reasonable ilvl. Taking off the shield is hard enough but without being able to spread out you're going to get destroyed by aoe damage, even 2 melee is probably too much without overgearing the entire instance.

It's possible, just harder. For the shield you just need to rotate dps CDs and damage potions so you can have adequate burst for each Repentance phase. But that would require dps and the tank to be smart and not totally blow their load on the pull.

[Theholypally]

I like that its content that is challenging and its a fun instance. The fact that you can go in there with an 870+ group and still fail boss fights because you decided to stand in shit you shouldnt be standing in is why i enjoy it. The loot portion of it isn't even that important.

It was designed to be difficult, and its in no way easy for 840 or 850 people (since some incorrectly assumed thats what the dungeon is tuned for).

The boss mechanics and many damaging abilities are raid level mechanics and thats also why i enjoy it...it adds a bit of pucker factor.

[Molis]

A Dungeon should not drop 855 gear and require 870 iLevel.

That is why you will get complaining.

I have serious doubts and 845 or 850 level group could clear it

[LolretKJ]

Full 870+ group of mythic raiders, took us a little over an hour. We wiped to maiden and Attunesmen once and one shot everything else.

[exriel]

We did it last night with a group of 860-870 players and cleared it in about two hours. We probably wiped 1-2 times on most of the bosses trying to figure out the mechanics and strategies. Only Shade felt difficult once we figured out how to do the fights the "correct" way. I can see groups that have inconsistent/limited interrupts or poor communication struggling mightily, however.

[Theholypally]

Honestly, people are complaining because its not faceroll.

They complain when it requires the slightest bit of preparation and they cant really yolo it.

[Molis]

Honestly, people are complaining because its not faceroll.

They complain when it requires the slightest bit of preparation and they cant really yolo it.

I dont want faceroll. I want a competent group of ilevel 845-850 to be able to run a dungeon for ilevel 855 loot.
It doesnt look like that is possible at the moment.

If the Dungeon is going to drop 855 then it is not tailored for Mythic +++ or Mythic raiders, however that is exactly what it is tuned for.

[Deleted]

Talked to a friend from No.1 Mythic raiding guild on my realm and they just cleared it on their mains - said it took them ~1h30 mins at +875 (Tank, one DPS and a healer had two Legendaries equipped).
Wiped once on Maiden.

Then they took their 840-ish alts and they left the place after 2 hours when 3 more bosses to go. Now, that would make sense if the loot on the table had at least 860-ish loot, with the last two bosses having at 865-ish guaranteed.

The input-reward ratio is totally skewed.

[Deleted]

Took us like 2,5 hours with a full plate group (Warr tank, HPala, Retri, Unholy x2), retri and 1 UH pugged, I was tanking in my offspec. I think we 1 shot Opera, Curator, Mana Devourer. Wiped once on Attumen because yolo pulled boss before clearing trash. Wiped 2-3 times on rest because hard mechanics lul

[Theholypally]

Talked to a friend from No.1 Mythic raiding guild on my realm and they just cleared it on their mains - said it took them ~1h30 mins at +875 (Tank, one DPS and a healer had two Legendaries equipped).
Wiped once on Maiden.

Then they took their 840-ish alts and they left the place after 2 hours when 3 more bosses to go. Now, that would make sense if the loot on the table had at least 860-ish loot, with the last two bosses having at 865-ish guaranteed.

The input-reward ratio is totally skewed.

I mean even if they upped the loot drops people would still complain.

People complain the reward for such a dungeon isnt satisfying but even with higher ilevel rewards they would complain about the same thing.

[Deleted]

I mean even if they upped the loot drops people would still complain.

People complain the reward for such a dungeon isnt satisfying but even with higher ilevel rewards they would complain about the same thing.

Complaints would be there but they would be less valid - two mounts are simply not enough. I don't know, some unique pet models... Illusions... unique transmog sets... I have no idea but it seems that the people who ought to do Karazhan won't do it.
Mayne add another Legendary to Karazhan-only lootable that would not be catastrophically bad. Or make trash more forgiving.

Casuals will probably get a whiff of the first handful bosses and they won't get further than that until Nighthold. And by that time people will be running +10 M+ in pugs succesfully.

I think Karazhan will be the Ulduar or Highmaul of this expansion - released too soon, relevant for couple weeks only.
I hope I am wrong as it looks amazing but I am not sure that this was the right way to go - it is essentially niche catering.

[Magnagarde]

Anywho, we went in with:
Guardian Druid - 872
Havoc Demon Hunter - 881
Fire Mage - 882
Fire Mage - 879
Resto Druid - 876

Took us a little less than 2 hours. 2 of us had PTR experience.

Anything going wrong with a group as geared as this would be equal to a disaster.

[Actarius]

You are a 870+ group doing a dungeon that doesn't even drop 870 loot and calling it easy. It is like calling Mythic BRF easy after clearing it with Mythic HFC gear.

It was easy on the PTR with 845, and it was easy on my mage alt at 854. It doesn't really get easier with gear, sure it goes faster, but no amount of gear will avoid the gimmicks of Karazhan.

- - - Updated - - -

Anything going wrong with a group as geared as this would be equal to a disaster.

Truedat.

(It was still fairly trivial on my 854 mage)

[Raiju]

A Dungeon should not drop 855 gear and require 870 iLevel.

That is why you will get complaining.

I have serious doubts and 845 or 850 level group could clear it

For a group of 870's this was like doing a mythic 3-4 - which are most certainly doable in 845-850. There's a couple tight checks on 2 bosses for that gear level but other than that its largely avoidable mechanics and managing trash appropriately.

[lockedout]

Chess Event was aids. Queen one shotting people on empty tiles.

Had 0 problems with this.

[Aurora]

Did it in a pug of 860-870 people. Nobody had done any research and it took about 3 hours with some breaks during it. While it's a different kind of challenge to mythic+ I definitely feel that it's been smoother and easier pugging +7 or +8 than kara which is not the sort of challenge I was expecting. We had no battle ress and found on most bosses that the dps requirements ensured there was no real room for error, so plenty of situations of forced wipes after 30 seconds because someone stood in something. It felt similar to heroic raiding but without the allowance for a small number of mistakes.
Plenty of old raid style nuisances to eat up time as well like long corpse runs, trash being aggro'd while on a floor above, long treks back to repair and seemingly a closed room before the 2nd last boss forcing a hearthstone repair.

Enjoyed the trek through it but definitely didn't feel rewarding enough to do it again in a pug, won't be going near it on my alt. Would be fine in an experienced guild group if they consider it worth the time and effort.

[Nikkaszal]

Wikket event at Opera was actually much easier when we just ignored the adds, healed through it and burned the bosses with multi-dotting. We got to a point where there were like five adds up and we said "why the fuck are we bothering, if we'd tunnelled the bosses they would have been dead a minute ago".

So thats what we did, and they just fell over while our healer did all the work.

850ish group.

[Terrorwave]

I completed it last night, took 4hrs approx, long runs back cost a lot of time. total combat time about 3hrs. Honestly one of the best nights ive had in WoW. so much fun and nostalgia. Very well made mega dungeon.

[Flurryfang]

Just completeted it and it took 4½ hour. For a group with an average item lvl of 855, it was perfect difficulty. We pretty much wiped on every boss, not because the dps was not there, but because you really need a tactic. Most of the bosses can kill you in the first 45 sec, if you don't follow the rules. Some people are proberly just overhealing or overgearing the content, since that some can ignore mechanics, but so far, every boss was a joy and a challenge.

This is the best dungeon since Wrath... Or maybe ever Every boss was good and challenging. Things might change in a few weeks with more gear, but if you go in with a group, who does not overgear the content, then the fun value is really high Final boss was cool, but not as hard as some other bosses I would put the difficulty on something between normal and heroic raiding