EU forum thread that surprised me a lot

[kamuimac]

"A minority of players raid. A minority of players participate in PvP. A tiny minority touch Mythic raiding. A tiny minority of players do rated PvP. A minority of players have several max-level alts. A minority of players do pet battles, roleplay, list things for sale on the auction house, do Challenge Mode dungeons, and the list goes on. Virtually the only activity that a clear majority of players participate in is questing and level-up dungeons"

— Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas (New game director and ex lead encounter designer)

well then maybe the answear to this is to put much more emhpasis on leveling and questing instead solely on endgame - maybe they should try adding more then 4 leveling zones next time only put 10-15 zones and 20-30 levels to level when expansion hits - with scalling world model and current dailies model maybe that would be answear to players demands - imagine you got new expansion and 100 + hours of leveling and storyline would that be a bad thing ?

[Luckx]

I disagree with original poster from EU forum on some aspects.

But i assume she/he is NOT asking for removing group content like Raids and Rated arena, but asking to see more content that can played without finding group like Quests,Archeology and Professions.

Or group content that can be queued solo without spending time forming new group like Random Battlegrounds,LFR,Normal and Heroic dungeons.

[Lodreh]

Time to post a perhaps equally non-popular opinion, but WoW was never intended to be a solo player game.

Then why is it while leveling you are constantly removed from your group? Even now I have to visit my class hall... run solo scenarios for my artifacts... the point is there is a lot of content that was specifically designed with soloing in mind. It just seems out of place that at end game you are forced to rely on others. It feels as if it's almost as an afterthought. Granted, I don't mind running dungeons or raids with people but, I'd like there to be alternatives in case I don't want to deal with the drama.

[Deleted]

I disagree with original poster from EU forum on some aspects.

But i assume she/he is NOT asking for removing group content like Raids and Rated arena, but asking to see more content that can played without finding group like Quests,Archeology and Professions.

Or group content that can be queued solo without spending time forming new group like Random Battlegrounds,LFR,Normal and Heroic dungeons.

Then why is it while leveling you are constantly removed from your group? Even now I have to visit my class hall... run solo scenarios for my artifacts... the point is there is a lot of content that was specifically designed with soloing in mind. It just seems out of place that at end game you are forced to rely on others. It feels as if it's almost as an afterthought. Granted, I don't mind running dungeons or raids with people but, I'd like there to be alternatives in case I don't want to deal with the drama.

Do you honestly realize how incredibly entitled you are to expect to be able to do even more things solo? There has never been more solo content in the game then there is now.

[Underverse]

Okay. First, no one is 'forced' to do anything. You bought the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. You still made that purchase and you are still responsible for making that purchase.

Second, this is a multiplayer game. There are some single player aspects to it (more than there should be, in my opinion), but ultimately this is an MMORPG (at least, that's what Blizzard is half-attempting to make). Multiplayer is right in the genre title.

Third, there are flat out better single player RPG/gambling/dungeon crawler games that you can play if you have too much 'social anxiety' to interact with other people.

- - - Updated - - -

Then why is it while leveling you are constantly removed from your group? Even now I have to visit my class hall... run solo scenarios for my artifacts... the point is there is a lot of content that was specifically designed with soloing in mind. It just seems out of place that at end game you are forced to rely on others. It feels as if it's almost as an afterthought. Granted, I don't mind running dungeons or raids with people but, I'd like there to be alternatives in case I don't want to deal with the drama.

Maybe WoW isn't the game for you. Have you tried games like Skyrim or Diablo 3?

Alternatively, have you considered making some friends in game that you can rely on?

Or perhaps you could use the plethora of tools available to you in game to avoid drama, including leaving groups and blocking people, or forming your own groups so you have more ownership over the composition of your party?

I agree that there isn't much single player content while leveling, and I think that's a shame. There should be more. Unfortunately, the leveling process is basically an afterthought in comparison to max level - it takes hardly any time and the majority of focus seems to be on endgame.

[Lodreh]

Do you honestly realize how incredibly entitled you are to expect to be able to do even more things solo? There has never been more solo content in the game then there is now.

I don't think that means what you think that means. In WoD I could queue for raids (solo) and get a legendary ring (ultimate in end game content). Now to advance a profession I need to run mythic dungeons (group finder/ guild). See the disconnect there? As I said originally, I don't mind doing that. However, I do feel it would be nice if there were alternative means to advance those professions... you know something that doesn't rely on others.

[Deleted]

I don't think that means what you think that means. In WoD I could queue for raids (solo) and get a legendary ring (ultimate in end game content). Now to advance a profession I need to run mythic dungeons (group finder/ guild). See the disconnect there? As I said originally, I don't mind doing that. However, I do feel it would be nice if there were alternative means to advance those professions... you know something that doesn't rely on others.

I'll concede the point that professions being gated behind mythics was idiotic but you did not mention that in the original post I quoted

[DesoPL]

That's why i am in fail train group in discord for example.

Yesterday it took to two hours to clear Black Rook Hold Mythic, where peps from that group and i there. Took two hours because few fail wipes on second boss, bat trashes and last boss. But we all got fun and no objections or anything.

I guess all is depends on what kind group of people you are.

[Lodreh]

Maybe WoW isn't the game for you. Have you tried games like Skyrim or Diablo 3?

Not bad games but i like the story in WoW better.

Alternatively, have you considered making some friends in game that you can rely on?

I have and amusingly enough I do. I was merely pointing out a flaw in the argument that WoW is not a solo game. When, if fact, you can see every aspect of the game solo. Just now you can't advance professions solo... seems kinda odd.

[Temp name]

Dungeons while leveling are in the dungeon finder.

Exactly. So putting mythics into the dungeon finder wouldn't help, as they don't want to do those either.

[craftyard]

Tough luck. Wow is not a single-player game, so you shouldn't expect it to play like one. Go and play an actual single-player game if you want a solo experience.

[Faenskap]

Most of the time it's not that we don't want to interact with people, but rather that those people are just not worth interacting with. See, the thing is, and has always been, that the main culprit in "ruining" multiplayer games are the people playing it.

I mean, all you have to do is read these forums; everywhere you look there's some elitist tryhard asshole telling others how they're not worthy of this and how they're not worthy of that. I feel disgusted that those people are wasting my oxygen on my planet, to be honest. Or, go in game, and try getting into groups. You're off by 1 ilvl and people ignore you, or tell you to fuck off. Or, your DPS is 5000 too low and you get kicked from the group.

And those are just the least annoying examples.

If only we could upvote posts!

For the most part WoW has been ok when interacting with other people, but when it isn't... Those incidents do stand out and leave me stunned. It's like you're interacting with people that have zero social skills whatsoever with a life so insiginificant and unfullfilling that a heroic dungeon wipe or losing a BG are catastrophical events.

No one should be forced to do group content, but of course, the solo players can't expect to accomplish things the same way organised players can. I don't get people's fetish for forcing others to be grouped up always?

[Deleted]

Why so many solo players?

Some of us are not a native English speakers and our English is very rusty and we are "scared" to interact with other players with perfect English speaking. They want to talk and always ask you something that you don't understand and than we don't know how to answer and why should we talk about anything else than game/boss mechanics ... And we simply move away ...

Do you get your answer, why so many solo players?

If i want to play arena or RBGs i need to go on vent and chat in English but i just can't and i don't want to, so i play random BGs and LFR/dungeon only and doing some solo stuff.

[grandgato]

A consumers apparent inability to select the appropriate genre of game is no reason to change the genre itself.

Tough luck. Wow is not a single-player game, so you shouldn't expect it to play like one. Go and play an actual single-player game if you want a solo experience.

World of Warcraft has ALWAYS been primarily a single player game with optional multiplayer content. From the original box art -
https://gamefiles.alphacoders.com/bo...back/149-1.jpg

"Play Solo, or enlist fellow heroes to join forces with you as you negotiate the vast, battle-scarred landscape of a world at war".

This is beat to death, but MMORPG just means there are other players running around in the game world with you, not that grouping is required to do everything. The original EQ, FFXI, DAOC etc are games that embraced that mantra and certainly something World of Warcraft didn't. So telling someone who enjoys a largely solo experience that "WoW isn't the game for you" is pretty much false, and always has been.

[Saracens]

Please continue the discussion based on the topic at hand and NOT the users posting within the thread.

[Deleted]

This is one of the most delusional posts I've ever seen. But sure, let's try.

Re: "Don't waste my time" jerks - It's their right to not want to carry you, especially if you've caused a wipe which for a single person nowadays is quite a feat. Don't demonize other people just because you suck and they don't want to put up with it.

Re: "Devil inside these people" - lolololololol

The post you quoted is also pretty rubbish. My wife is a player like that. She loves gathering mounts, she isn't that good of a player and she gets really depressed if she's kicked out of a group because she does bad dps, blames it on herself and doesn't want to play anymore. Know what I did? I sat down with her, told her that people are like that, that she'd do it as well if she was in their shoes and then I WENT AHEAD AND MADE A GROUP WITH HER AND SOME MUTUAL FRIENDS WHO KNOW US..

If you seriously don't have enough friends to be able to do the above, then once again - maybe you're the """toxic""" one. Don't put the burden of your casual family / friends on strangers, we have our hands full as is.

Wow, we are an aggressive one aren't we, one of these ignorant people who doesn't believe that one can change the world by his actions. And jumping to conclusions that I am a toxic person with no friends or guild. Just wooow! I am a GM and RL of a semi-hardcore guild 5/7M but that doesn't give me the right to be a jerk to other people.

If I am pugging a mythic normal dungeon which is the subject here on the post I have quoted from one of the posters, I would expect some people to be undergeared and to have lack of knowledge of mechanics and I try to help them, if I don't want want to carry anyone or not in the mood, I will go with my guild group, understood? Why not, don't Pug if you don't want to carry another player??

Now go, do whatever you do in the game, call people "retards" cause they have wiped you once and wasted your precious time. Maybe you should spend that time with your wife, instead of coming here, generalizing and insulting people without even having your facts straight.

[melodramocracy]

World of Warcraft has ALWAYS been primarily a single player game with optional multiplayer content. From the original box art -
https://gamefiles.alphacoders.com/bo...back/149-1.jpg

"Play Solo, or enlist fellow heroes to join forces with you as you negotiate the vast, battle-scarred landscape of a world at war".

This is beat to death, but MMORPG just means there are other players running around in the game world with you, not that grouping is required to do everything. The original EQ, FFXI, DAOC etc are games that embraced that mantra and certainly something World of Warcraft didn't. So telling someone who enjoys a largely solo experience that "WoW isn't the game for you" is pretty much false, and always has been.

It must be opposite day, because everything you state here is incorrect. You *can* play solo, sure... but you're not going to see end game relevant content while strictly playing solo. That has always been the case since day 1 of this game, and probably always will be.

[grandgato]

It must be opposite day, because everything you state here is incorrect. You *can* play solo, sure... but you're not going to see end game relevant content while strictly playing solo. That has always been the case since day 1 of this game, and probably always will be.

I consider using LFD/LFR to still fall under "solo" activity in the sense i don't have to establish a pre-formed group in order to experience them. If you mean strictly stuff i can do by myself, then yes it is considerably more limited.

An anecdotally from my experience, for most players, the "end-game" in Vanilla and TBC was just hitting max level. And then once they did hit max level they probably started working on an alt, so in a sense, solo content was still largely what most people were doing.

[rogoth]

People have different definitions of what an MMO is, for me its not group content, it just means there is other people around in the same universe that you can interact with if you wish, but that should no way be forced on people.

The game has gotten so toxic the last few expansions, that i would honestly buy an solo version of this game as well if it was available, and just have "bots" run around instead of actual players to make the game feel somewhat alive.

And saying people should play games like Fallout instead is really pointless, it has none of the lore/classes/gameplay/graphic style of wow.

so to summarise, you and the many muppets like you want WC1-3 because of some misguided notion that in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER

ONLINE ROLEPLAYING GAME (i highlighted the keyword just to make it easier to see), you feel some kind of stupid entitlement because you pay the same sub price as the millions who play the game as intended?

[ComputerNerd]

If there is so much desire for solo experience, then look beyond bashing people for that and look at why.
Because the community is often downright hostile towards inexperience and lack of skill.
Make progression attractive for reasons other than gear or achievements.
Make the experience of playing with you fun.