Why all dungeons should be designed like Karazhan

[Deleted]

First of all let me say this is the best revamp blizz has ever made, but it's not has good as the old Karazhan because ti's a dungeon and not a raid also old Kara offered meaningful progression plus fun the new version only offer fun (and there's nothing wrong with that), but aside from that it's a pretty great dungeon.

Karazhan does something amazing, it incentives community interaction because of the short attunement and it filters out all the "shit" players that hate to put in time and effort and can't be asked to create a group, giving them 2 options - 1 - either they play along and put in a tiny bit of effort do the attunement and get to see the content. or 2 - they don't see the content.

What makes Karazhan good? is it the difficulty? the complex boss boss mechanics? the loot?

Nope it's the instance magnitude and the time it takes to complete, no one would remember Kara if it was a 30 mins zerg fest like all these new dungeons, the more time you invest in something the more memorable it is, in the end of this expansion not a single person is gonna say "ye 'member when we cleared maw a souls under 10 mins, ye brah, such a good dungeons right!"

Death means something again! yup dying in a dungeon is actually meaningful again outside of time runs, i see a lot of people complaining about the corpse run being to long, those people are retarded, the corpse runs are supposed to be long, they are the punishment for you sucking or making a mistake.

improvement that can be made for future dungeons -

DON'T MAKE IT A FUCKING ZERG FEST. it's been this way since wotlk and enough is enough, pulling 2 packs of mobs should be something you avoid because it should result in a wipe.

Make dungeons take longer and add more bosses no one cares about the boss mechanics, they have been almost all the same with slight variations since wotlk. more bosses = more fun.

Keep the attunements and use them in all instances they keep away the trash players and forces them to get better and actually invest time in the game.

[Luckx]

But there is alot ppl who dislike playing PC games too much, they play only 1-2 hours @ week, and there is ppl who login into WOW play for 20-30mins and then log out.

Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight

[Deleted]

But there is alot ppl who dislike playing PC games too much, they play only 1-2 hours @ week, and there is ppl who login into WOW play for 20-30mins and then log out.

Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight

maybe they should just quit???? why would blizzard want to cater to people who don't want to play the game?????

[Zogarth]

But there is alot ppl who dislike playing PC games too much, they play only 1-2 hours @ week, and there is ppl who login into WOW play for 20-30mins and then log out.

Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight

Of all the reason you could come up for why playing games all day is bad for you, you say it is unhealthy for your eyes? First of all, i seriously doubt that, and... really? That is the worst you can get on?

[Prothynyas]

i do like to zerg trash mobs now and then , dunno why its a bad thing

[Yoshimiko]

maybe they should just quit???? why would blizzard want to cater to people who don't want to play the game?????

They want to play, just not investing 20+ hours per week into it. I'd guess more than half of the players play for less than 10 hours a week. That makes Kara a rather large investment.

[Deleted]

But there is alot ppl who dislike playing PC games too much, they play only 1-2 hours @ week, and there is ppl who login into WOW play for 20-30mins and then log out.

Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight

Are you for real? I have been sat in front of a screen since I was a young kid, my eyesight is perfect.

Also all studies show that as long as you keep a proper distance from the screen, gaming has no adverse effect on the eyes, in fact it usually improve reactionspeed.

That is just a bullshit excuse parents of the 90s used to get kids of the computer.

[Aggrophobic]

First of all let me say this is the best revamp blizz has ever made, but it's not has good as the old Karazhan because ti's a dungeon and not a raid also old Kara offered meaningful progression plus fun the new version only offer fun (and there's nothing wrong with that), but aside from that it's a pretty great dungeon.

Karazhan does something amazing, it incentives community interaction because of the short attunement and it filters out all the "shit" players that hate to put in time and effort and can't be asked to create a group, giving them 2 options - 1 - either they play along and put in a tiny bit of effort do the attunement and get to see the content. or 2 - they don't see the content.

What makes Karazhan good? is it the difficulty? the complex boss boss mechanics? the loot?

Nope it's the instance magnitude and the time it takes to complete, no one would remember Kara if it was a 30 mins zerg fest like all these new dungeons, the more time you invest in something the more memorable it is, in the end of this expansion not a single person is gonna say "ye 'member when we cleared maw a souls under 10 mins, ye brah, such a good dungeons right!"

Death means something again! yup dying in a dungeon is actually meaningful again outside of time runs, i see a lot of people complaining about the corpse run being to long, those people are retarded, the corpse runs are supposed to be long, they are the punishment for you sucking or making a mistake.

improvement that can be made for future dungeons -

DON'T MAKE IT A FUCKING ZERG FEST. it's been this way since wotlk and enough is enough, pulling 2 packs of mobs should be something you avoid because it should result in a wipe.

Make dungeons take longer and had more bosses no one cares about the boss mechanics, they have been almost all the same with slight variations since wotlk. more bosses = more fun.

Keep the attunements and use them in all instances they keep away the trash players and forces them to get better and actually invest time in the game.

Oh, fuck no! I do not want more dungeons like Kara. It's by far the worst dungeon of this expantion.

[Deleted]

They want to play, just not investing 20+ hours per week into it. I'd guess more than half of the players play for less than 10 hours a week. That makes Kara a rather large investment.

too bad for them

you don't go into a store demanding they shut down the candy section because you've got diabetes

[Deleted]

Karazahan is nice but so are other dungeons for people who play more casually. Why take away something when you can have both easy and hard dungeons?

- - - Updated - - -

too bad for them

you don't go into a store demanding they shut down the candy section because you've got diabetes

And you don't go into store requesting they shut down every section that isn't candy because you like to eat them.

[Luckx]

maybe they should just quit???? why would blizzard want to cater to people who don't want to play the game?????

They want to play the game, and they paying subscription.

But they prefer playing game for 20-30mins and then logging out till next day or next week, over playing 2-3hour raids.

[potis]

They want to play, just not investing 20+ hours per week into it. I'd guess more than half of the players play for less than 10 hours a week. That makes Kara a rather large investment.

I want a Lamborghini too but i didnt invest in becoming a mech engineer or a doctor, or a drug lord, or a weapons dealer.

Great logic.

To the OP, running back for 5mins doesnt make a good dungeon or a hard dungeon, you killed your post with that, otherwise you have a few good points that also cant work with todays standards.

Karazhan is a mini-raid for the people that dont want to raid and want gear above 850 as many cry that they are stuck at 845-850.

Attunement is a good way to weed out "bads" or "Shit" as you call them, but what about my alt? My alt can probably outdps/outtank/outheal your main, why is he locked out exactly?

There is logic, and there is stupidity in things, big/long dungeons should be a thing much more often, but attunement doesnt mean jack shit.

[Deleted]

too bad for them

you don't go into a store demanding they shut down the candy section because you've got diabetes

Neither do you go into a store demanding they sell only one type of candy because that's the one you prefer.

[Redblade]

They want to play, just not investing 20+ hours per week into it. I'd guess more than half of the players play for less than 10 hours a week. That makes Kara a rather large investment.

Then Kara isn't for them...there is nothing wrong with different content catering to different people. I'm not bitching and moaning that pet battles offer rewards that I can't get without doing pet battles for example, either I spend the time learning how to be good at it or I don't get the rewards.

[Sierra85]

Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight

unhealthy playing can affect eyes and also eye sight. it is factors you should see coming if you had vision and fore vision.

[Bethanie]

Then Kara isn't for them...there is nothing wrong with different content catering to different people. I'm not bitching and moaning that pet battles offer rewards that I can't get without doing pet battles for example, either I spend the time learning how to be good at it or I don't get the rewards.

The difference is that with other instanced content you have multiple difficulties, so all players have the chance to experience it, but with rewards appropriate to the effort involved. I find it a bit strange that Blizzard made the new Karazhan mythic only. Still it's not a big issue as the rewards are not good enough versus time investment to justify running the dungeon more than a couple of times just to experience it anyway.

I wonder if Blizzard is using the dungeon as a test to see if mythic only content is feasible, perhaps in future we will have mythic only raids, with casual players and below average players limited to easier 'heroic' content.

[Pull My Finger]

Make dungeons take longer and had more bosses no one cares about the boss mechanics

Most nonsensical thing I've read all day.

[RoKPaNda]

Your reasons for loving Karazhan so much are also the reasons why Karazhan is going to be so forgettable. I ran it once for nostalgia. No reason to run it again. At all. Totally forgettable dungeon.

[Redblade]

The difference is that with other instanced content you have multiple difficulties, so all players have the chance to experience it, but with rewards appropriate to the effort involved.

I think Blizzard found that the lower end of the difficulty scale has the same issue as the top end of the difficulty scale, not enough people make use of it for any duration of time. I don't see them remove things like LFR but they do seem to head towards it being a "tourist" thing where you go do experience it once and then be done with it as the rewards aren't there. Which is what was the original complaint back when it was introduced "we pay and as such we have the right to see the content".

I wonder if Blizzard is using the dungeon as a test to see if mythic only content is feasible, perhaps in future we will have mythic only raids, with casual players and below average players limited to easier 'heroic' content.

I think they are, mostly due to i-lvl bloat with too many difficulties though.

[RoKPaNda]

The difference is that with other instanced content you have multiple difficulties, so all players have the chance to experience it, but with rewards appropriate to the effort involved. I find it a bit strange that Blizzard made the new Karazhan mythic only. Still it's not a big issue as the rewards are not good enough versus time investment to justify running the dungeon more than a couple of times just to experience it anyway.

I wonder if Blizzard is using the dungeon as a test to see if mythic only content is feasible, perhaps in future we will have mythic only raids, with casual players and below average players limited to easier 'heroic' content.

It's not feasible, and I'm sure they already know that, but they already had Karazhan and it's design in the pipe and didn't want to invest more resources in it than they already had. I honestly doubt after Karazhan we'll see any more Mythic only dungeons.