Spoilers: Return to Karazhan

[Matt0193]

Like, Old Gods and Naga stuff don't really make for interesting expansion themes.

I can't say as I found Orcs an interesting expansion theme but we had one of those.

The thing is Blizzard completely underplayed N'zoth fanwanking by stating that he is the weakest of the Old Gods.

Didn't they say he was the weakest of the Four when they were originally locked away? C'thun had only just started to reawaken during the Second War of the Shifting Sands and Yogg-Saron had only just breached his prison when we went to Ulduar. We know N'Zoth was the figure behind Deathwing and the figure likely behind the Highborne turning into Naga. There's room for them to make him stronger than both C'thun and Yogg-Saron's characters in-game, simply due to circumstance. But yes, he is officially the weakest of the Old Gods who infested Azeroth.

[Aquamonkey]

C'thun had only just started to reawaken during the Second War of the Shifting Sands and Yogg-Saron had only just breached his prison when we went to Ulduar.

C'Thun was fully awake and free.

Worse, C'Thun has awakened, freed itself, and reemerged from the planet's depths. (WC Encyclopedia)

Yogg had broken through all but the last of its restraints.

This ancient horror has corrupted its guards, and now it is breaking through the last of its restraints. Faced with the peril of Yogg-Saron's imminent freedom, a band of mortals has made preparations for a sweeping assault on the city. (Game Guide)

[derpkitteh]

i'm upset they have locked more story behind mythic only. this isn't right.

but, with illidan being on our side after the nightwell, it only makes sense that we'd use the portal instead of just closing it. illidan's style is the take the fight to them and kill them instead of waiting to die.

while we're on argus, we'll likely meet members of the army of light and perform a joint attack to bring down kil'jaedan. what i don't understand though is something from the broken shore event... if you walk near gul'dan, you're instantly killed by a staggering presence from the other side of the portal reaching out and touching you. that's obviously sargeras. if sargeras is at the other side of that portal on argus, how will we survive either going near it at all or through it, and how would the army of light last even a moment on argus?

[Deleted]

This is just my personal perception but I always though that N'Zoth was the weakest but most cunning of the Old Gods. While he may not have the raw strength of C'Thun and Yogg he has the smarts to manipulate others more effectively to do his bidding. While Yogg may have corrupted Loken to manipulate Ulduar N'Zoth's association with Azshara and the corruption of Neltharion makes him slightly more imposing to me. He's more of the Professor Moriarty to me but I may be 100% wrong as i'm yet to read Chronicles.

[Silent Earth]

Like, Old Gods and Naga stuff don't really make for interesting expansion themes.

Speak for yourself. I'm still salty the Dark Below turned out to be Destiny DLC.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yes i get that.And im saying that its a poor story decision.The fact that the Legion cant even defeat their enemies on their home planet and according to Turalyon the war has been going on for 1000 yrs.1000 yrs of overconfidence is pretty much stupidity.

The entire story arch devalues the Legion.Its almost like they've given up with the story,now that Metzen is gone.

He only quit recently, which would have little affect. The story was developed way ahead of time so your theories are silly and you are exaggerating on how *bad something is* even though it really isn't.

[Aquamonkey]

Where did Blizzard say N'Zoth is the weakest Old God?

EDIT: The datamining of Xal'atath's whispers says it, but did it actually make it to live?

It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and well, only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be.
--https://youtu.be/cSWzlc5JzUc?t=4m31s

[MikeBogina]

He only quit recently, which would have little affect. The story was developed way ahead of time so your theories are silly and you are exaggerating on how *bad something is* even though it really isn't.

I think they've said that Chris Metzen has had little to with WoW for a while now. Voice acting and the such, but he's put probably most of his enthusiasm behind Overwatch.

Regardless, I dont think Chris Metzen alone has any negative or positive impact on the story and that a large number of people decide together, it's just that the MMO format for telling a huge story like Warcraft is taking it's toll. Having more books, games and other formats would make it all more compelling.

- - - Updated - - -

Where did Blizzard say N'Zoth is the weakest Old God?

EDIT: The datamining of Xal'atath's whispers says it, but did it actually make it to live?

It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and well, only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be.
--https://youtu.be/cSWzlc5JzUc?t=4m31s

To me that quote means really nothing in regards to their power, but more about that fact that she's referring to herself on the same level as one of them, when almost all the minions of the Old Gods usually are fanatical and praise them as being something far greater than themselves.

If N'zoth was the weaker of the 4 at the time of the Titan's arrival, it doesn't mean anything to us, since Yogg was still imprisoned and C'thun wasn't nearly at full power when we fought. He would still be the greatest threat since his location is unknown and the world is in a very weaker state than when we fought Yogg and C'thun.

[Rathbourne]

He only quit recently, which would have little affect. The story was developed way ahead of time so your theories are silly and you are exaggerating on how *bad something is* even though it really isn't.

Hes been focused on Overwatch and the movie for the last few years also there isnt anyone left at Blizz that can match his passion for the story.Trust me man,i tried liking the story.I gave my own explanations when something was unexplained or inconsistent.At this point though i just cant see it ever reaching the same level of quality as the WC 3 storyline ever.When i say its bad,im not exaggerating in the slightest.
This is all my opinion though,which i'm entitled to. If you still love the lore and think its been as good as the past, then good for you.

- - - Updated - - -

MMO format for telling a huge story like Warcraft is taking it's toll. Having more books, games and other formats would make it all more compelling..

Exactly.I wish theyd release an rts version focused more on the lore,but thats probably too much to ask.

[Aquamonkey]

Metzen single-handedly wrote every line of story and dialogue for WoW. Just like how Ghostcrawler single-handedly coded every class ability and stat.

[Nethlord]

The Tomb is pretty much guaranteed to be little more than a portal. Maybe it will be a 5man dungeon, but the raid itself will be on the other side of it.

Actually I personally think that the Tomb is going to be a repeat of ICC's pre dungeons and then a raid similar to how SoO played out (different locations).

[WolfRider]

Yeah Medivh totally implies that we'll have to go through the portal and what he says makes Kadghar think of another solution than just use the Pillars of Creation to close the Tomb. For those who like to explore lands as I do, the Broken Shores (the Island) is full of NPCs with a boss level. Some are just minions, but most of them are Named characters. And there's an Illidari camp with a fly on the West part next to the island.
So there's two possibilities : the whole zone will be a raid and the final part will be through the gate OR there will be a questchain to push back the demons through the portal starting at the Illidari camp in patch 7.3 with Illidan's help.
I'm going with that possibility, adding that Argus raid won't be available in patch 7.3 but later, exactly like we have the Assault on Suramar questchain and the Judgement of Valor raid in 7.1

[Dadukester]

The fact that they even managed to assault Argus is shamefull. If we are gonna go through that portal then its almost certain we are going to conquer Argus and kill Kiljaedan without facing any true defeats because of the massive Mary Sues that we are.Killing of,arguably, the best villian the franchise has without even giving him a proper expansion for himself is imo bad story telling.Its anticlimactic.Its gonna be WoD Archimonde all over again.

I just really want to see the villians be a force to be reckoned with.Remember WC 3 when the Scourge and the Legion tore through Lordaeron and Kalimdor ? Or the War of the Ancients when the entire world exploded ? Thats the kind of stuff that one expects when the Burning Legion invades. Instead we're getting the same old shit we've been getting for the last 5 expacs. The "brave murder hobos of Azeroth" r*ping everything in sight

Well they did say "Kingdoms willl burn", which we haven't really seen unless you call the little towns outside of the major cities in the prelaunch event a kingdom. So maybe they will have some crazy surprise cataclysm-like event at the start of 7.2 or 7.3 (if we're lucky) where the legion drops a giant infernal on Darnassus or Orgrimmar and just leaves something behind in the rest of the world to remember this invasion. I'd like to see them cause some destruction cause you are right, the dead scar in the ghost lands left by the scourge, lorderan left in ruins, it all triggers nostalgia and memories of the stuff we faced in the past. IF they did something that drastic and THEN we killed Kiljaedan, that'd be memorable and worthwhile

[Qualia]

So maybe they will have some crazy surprise cataclysm-like event at the start of 7.2 or 7.3 (if we're lucky) where the legion drops a giant infernal on Darnassus or Orgrimmar and just leaves something behind in the rest of the world to remember this invasion. I'd like to see them cause some destruction cause you are right, the dead scar in the ghost lands left by the scourge, lorderan left in ruins, it all triggers nostalgia and memories of the stuff we faced in the past. IF they did something that drastic and THEN we killed Kiljaedan, that'd be memorable and worthwhile

I can assure you that is very unlikely to happen due to technical issue. If they are going to modify an entire existing zone, it'd have already been done and datamined.

[OIS]

Well they did say "Kingdoms willl burn", which we haven't really seen unless you call the little towns outside of the major cities in the prelaunch event a kingdom. So maybe they will have some crazy surprise cataclysm-like event at the start of 7.2 or 7.3 (if we're lucky) where the legion drops a giant infernal on Darnassus or Orgrimmar and just leaves something behind in the rest of the world to remember this invasion. I'd like to see them cause some destruction cause you are right, the dead scar in the ghost lands left by the scourge, lorderan left in ruins, it all triggers nostalgia and memories of the stuff we faced in the past. IF they did something that drastic and THEN we killed Kiljaedan, that'd be memorable and worthwhile

It's unlikely to happen in the game, maybe they will mention the Legion causing huge damage to cities and other settlements in a book or something.

[turboether]

i thought at the end of wc3 medivh just flies offsaying something about joining the legends of the past?

This is the fantasy equivalent of 'I'm too old for this shit, I'm going into retirement, don't screw it up so I can relax k?'

[Flutterguy]

"Oh hey Medivh! You're back! We could use your help..."
"I have to go now."

[Feanoro]

i'm upset they have locked more story behind mythic only. this isn't right.

Mythic 5 man (not even M+ level), but don't let that interrupt the righteous rage.

[Shiftyfish]

"Oh hey Medivh! You're back! We could use your help..."
"I have to go now."

*turns into a crow and flies off into space*

[Zandalariprelate]

The thing with Argus is, we cannot survive there. Just as Draenor SHOULD have been but even worse, any attack on Argus needs to be fast and hard. You cannot fight a protracted war against a nigh-infinite and constantly respawning army (and if Sargeras is even there, you need to strike surgically before he can even know you are there unless we do something truly outrageous, like open a hole to the Void and have a Void Lord manifest to take him on). So however much I'd love to see Argus, I cannot see us having an expansion there.

In the book of illidan seems like Sargeras is in his throne far away from argus that is why illidan is willing to attack argus in a blitzkrieg attack, so maybe some patch or raid can be done there but a expantion with just argus is not gonna work because Sargeras can appears there even before we manage to get close to the palace