Calling all Affliction Locks

[Applenazi]

If any Aff locks want to help me keep this alive I'd appreciate it. Will probably never get a response but it's the last gasp for me after playing Aff since vanilla.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...9728805?page=1

[Locknrollen]

I agree on some things. But its overall badly written in my opinion, so no, i wont.

[Tuskchi]

Meh .... that's pretty " on the other side the pastures are greener " thread .... not going to support it

[Applenazi]

I agree on some things. But its overall badly written in my opinion, so no, i wont.

If you have input as to the issues addressed I'd love to hear them, can't really do anything with what you gave me. Unless you are referring to grammar and syntax in which case it's hard for me to take advice from someone who produced the sentences you just did

Meh .... that's pretty " on the other side the pastures are greener " thread .... not going to support it

On the other side of what? I compared one spec to another for the same class. Also... math? That adage doesn't really apply when you can trivially measure and illustrate just how green that grass actually is.

[Tuskchi]

If you have input as to the issues addressed I'd love to hear them, can't really do anything with what you gave me. Unless you are referring to grammar and syntax in which case it's hard for me to take advice from someone who produced the sentences you just did



On the other side of what? I compared one spec to another for the same class. Also... math? That adage doesn't really apply when you can trivially measure and illustrate just how green that grass actually is.

Yeah ... No ...

Balancing has always been part of the game. Nerfing, Buffing and flatout breaking a spec ( in positive or negative manner) has always been part of the game ... Removing iconic abilities and gameplay IS ALSO part of the game regardless if we like it or not.

If you don't like what your class/spec is now. Stop playing, no1 forces you and no1 ( from blizzard) is obligated to compile your expectations and create the game so it's interesting and playable FOR YOU.

Once they lose their subs, they will have to re-think, because this is - money, but until then yelling "Blizzard, do the game the way I like, because I pay you " is REALLY silly.


And this is coming from me,a PvPer who had 36 key-binds as warlock in TBC ... Now I have 15?

[Applenazi]

Yeah ... No ...

Balancing has always been part of the game. Nerfing, Buffing and flatout breaking a spec ( in positive or negative manner) has always been part of the game ... Removing iconic abilities and gameplay IS ALSO part of the game regardless if we like it or not.

If you don't like what your class/spec is now. Stop playing, no1 forces you and no1 ( from blizzard) is obligated to compile your expectations and create the game so it's interesting and playable FOR YOU.

Once they lose their subs, they will have to re-think, because this is - money, but until then yelling "Blizzard, do the game the way I like, because I pay you " is REALLY silly.


And this is coming from me,a PvPer who had 36 key-binds as warlock in TBC ... Now I have 15?

You just stated that people should not provide feedback to Blizzard - fuck that's dumb. Knowing that people like you disagree with me validates my views, I appreciate that. I did like the line that Blizzard has no obligation to make the game playable, are you sure you aren't actually a Blizzard developer?

[Deleted]

I am happy that you still care where I have already given up, but I doubt that this will ever get a serious answer from Blizz. honestly I still haven't gotten over the blue post where they had the nerve to tell us to be happy about doing mediocre DPS in raids. I agree with everything you said, so making Affliction actually good would require such a big redesign including a ton of artifact traits. I just don't see Blizz care enough as long as their stance is that the spec is fine as long as it's not dead last

[Deleted]

While I understand if you have some concerns, your comparison to destruction is seriously lacking. You'd be better off aiming your criticisms elsewhere.

You seem to be hinting that drain life is better for destruction than it is for affliction? You are neglecting the fact that drain life does much more damage as affliction and does more healing than destruction even when that trait that buffs it happens to proc. Destruction locks also rarely (if ever) life tap, so that damage reduction is negligible, although not having to tap is a pro in itself I admit. You didn't talk about siphon life, affliction needs some love, but it has a ton more passive healing than destruction has.

The only time destruction has any self heal is when they pop their healthstone, which is once per fight and heals for a fraction of an affliction locks, or completely sacrifice dps by switching to drain life. The only thing it has is unending resolve on a lower cooldown, and a very RNG mastery which isn't exactly high anyway. Unending resolve is pretty great, but destruction really needs it compared to affliction and demonology.

[muto]

Affliction isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Some specs have it far worse like Survival Hunters.. Affliction's only weakness is single target, but you can just play Demo, so meh. That's the benefit of being Warlock. Some classes can't just switch specs depending on the dps role they need to fill, like Priests for example.

[Applenazi]

You seem to be hinting that drain life is better for destruction than it is for affliction?

How so? I don't recall doing this and it was not my intention.

[Deleted]

Affliction isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Some specs have it far worse like Survival Hunters.. Affliction's only weakness is single target, but you can just play Demo, so meh. That's the benefit of being Warlock. Some classes can't just switch specs depending on the dps role they need to fill, like Priests for example.

but shadows have no need to switch specs for better dps because their dps works on both single target and adds. also shadows have the benefit of being able to switch to a different role, which is far more valuable in a raid setting than switching from one mediocre damage spec to another mediocre one. also how is it good design that warlock "gets" to switch specs based on enounters when so many other specs do not have to do that? also even if you are fine with switching specs around for encounters that still leaves you with sub-par gear thanks to different specs having different stat weights. also why do you ignore his point about artifact traits being outright useless on many encounters? do you say that is a good spec design? again if you think that is proper design then how do you explain that this isn't the case for many other specs, including specs of that same class?

[Deleted]

How so? I don't recall doing this and it was not my intention.

Perhaps not, either way I think my other points still stand and I disagree that destruction warlocks are more tanky.

I'd welcome changes to make all 3 specs more tanky, but as it stands I think they are relatively well balanced. Demonology has the most survivability, but they are also the most reliant on casted spells and have less mobility options. Destruction is now being pushed into casting chaos bolts rather than shadowburn spam so they are in a similar situation, although not quite as bad.

That's just my thoughts on your post since you asked. You have some valid points, unstable affliction dispel being the most relevant, but if you really want Blizzard to read your post and take it on board then it has to have as little bias as possible.

[Applenazi]

Affliction isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Some specs have it far worse like Survival Hunters..

Don't really understand this, I am not making affliction out to be bad, I am simply outlining its core mechanical faults. Those faults do happen to make it bad in my opinion as well as the opinion of quite a few other warlocks but again my concern is the faults themselves, not the badness of the spec. If other specs have it "far worse" then I urge them to provide feedback. Unsure as to how another specs problems has jack shit to do with my feedback...

Perhaps not, either way I think my other points still stand and I disagree that destruction warlocks are more tanky.

Got it, appreciate you clearing that up. Destruction locks do in fact have more damage mitigation than Affliction locks, that isn't bias, its just numbers. Damage reduction and healing are not 1 to 1, especially when dampening begins to tick. And even if somehow none of that were true trading a 1 minute shield wall for a 3 minute shield wall because drain life heals modestly more for Affliction than Destruction is not at all an equal trade off.

[FelPlague]

so affliction isnt top dps spec...?
omfg its the end of the world!
you speak as if affliction is horrible, when really it isnt, it has less fights overall where its the best of the three specs, but still its useable, not amazing, but every patch has that

with 3 dps specs in the class, there will allways be one that is the weakest... stop trying to make it seem like this is new, and a major concern... affliction has allways had its place, and hell you act like it was allways useful, when really from vanilla till mid wrath no one used it, was horrid, fucking garbage...


look, a spec will allways be "the lowest" stop trying to make it out as the end of the world, and your spec is being shafted, every patch has a different #1, and a different one in last place, this allways happens, every spec has had its time in the spotlight, and right now it seems to be demo/destros, affliction is INSANE for pvp though

even in your orignal post on blizzard forums you scream ignorance...
stating that affliction has the least survivability, when out of the 3, it has the highest
with healing from siphon life
dot damage
soul leech
Healthstones healing more, aswell as other people using theirs healing you
aswell as your filler being a fucking amazing self heal!!!

that is insanly stupid to try and claim affliction is the worse survival

and yes UA IS CLEANSE PROTECTION

when you put agony, and corruption on a target, then put a UA on them, they clense it, but your corruption and agony are still up, UA just cock blocked their cleanse, and now their silenced, so guess what, apply more UA, all the while your agony is ticking higher and higher, UA is there to stop them from removing that 20 stack agony
if you even did arenas you would know how strong it is, able to get 20 stacks+ corruption on someone, well keeping 1-3 UA on them to stop them from cleansing they fucking MELT


"2/3 gold traits worthless in raids/pvp"
hm man you must suck at pvp/raiding then
Pvp other players/pets proc both of these
Raiding
Ursoc adds
Dragons adds
Elerethe adds
Cenarius adds
the whole illgynoth fight
and xavius adds

now of corse in a few of these situations these dont proc often, but still useful, not worthless as you call them

L O FUCKING L
"all three demo are useful in all sitatuions"

oh yeah that 50% stronger demonbolt every like 30-40 seconds aww yeah, so useful, even though it comes with no warning, and most of the time lands when you have little to no demons out, as when it appears it isnt your next demonbolt to cast, its your next to hit, so most of the time it disappears before you can even use it

aww fucking shit 1% more damage on each pet for each imp that died! holy shit, up to 10% so.... this really just ends up being 10% more damage on your perma pet that you have to maintain... ok... yeah
and holy fucking shit, a random proc aoe dot... man... if only in pvp people dident move out of it the second it appeared? shit man... it must be so useful....

and destro
ok infernals spawn more infernals... oooook real cool? yeah.. 10 min cooldown on that... so fancy, so useful in all situations
conf has a chance to make your next conf crit... ok cool useless in aoe, only good on single target and 2 person cleave... cool...?
and incen has chance to reset portal cooldown... again... really cool one there... useful in all situations as you said... so amazing totally cool and not boreing...

affliction viability to lag behind destro and demo?
ok you havent played a lock in 5 years have you?
affliction right now since the buff, then the curb stomp nerfing of destro, is now the best of the three specs in arena, apply dots, keep up 5 stacks of UA with rot and decay, and your ticking people for 400k a second, well also healing, and taking 50% reduced damage from them...

if you plan to complain, atleast play the class, affliction is not in a good spot, but you are saying why its bad for all the wrong reasons, well making up complete lies about it

[Auracle]

OP,

I'll take a brief stab at constructive feedback for the post you linked.

I think that your overall tone is poor, if your intention is to be taken seriously by the people who work on your class. You come off as impassioned, yes, but also incredulous, frustrated and immature. Overuse of hyperbole sends a clear message of compromised objectivity. That's not a tack that a professional is going to appreciate when receiving feedback on their work. I skimmed your post and was immediately inclined to disregard it as yet another rant. As you've asked for genuine feedback here, I took a closer look and the above is my overall impression.

Here are some suggestions for how you can improve in future endeavors, in my opinion:
Your introduction sets tone. This is where you want to put forward a balanced and concise overview of your concerns and your point. Your present introduction tells me you want to whinge, and makes me disinclined to view anything further written in a favorable light.
State each issue you have clearly. Think hard about how much of your personal opinion is anecdotal or isolated (i.e., apply perspective to your thoughts), and when you present your case for a criticism, do your best to rationally justify it.
Provide suggestions for alternatives to the criticisms.
If you want to make a subjective appeal, for example 'I used to love this class and I'm finding myself becoming bored and frustrated with the changes since WoD, please change XYZ', couch it in relatable and/or sympathetic terms. Your goal is to garner support from the community and attention from Blizzard - you wont succeed by being just one more pissed off voice in a crowd of the same.

With respect to the content of your post, I concur with your assessment of the artifact issues, and to an extent with the concept of affliction being a weaker raiding spec, but not much else. I was affliction in MOP and WOD and was disappointed for the first three weeks off this expansion, then made the switch to destro as raiding was my priority. I miss the spec somewhat but I am having fun with the class. I think affliction does need a rework of some kind to address what I perceive as playstyle issues, but I am not sufficiently invested to pursue any kind off activism on the matter.

[Deleted]

I think you would be better off separating the feedback threads into PvE and PvP. While affliction has issues in both the problems in the two modes are entirely different, for example your first point about survivability is a bit silly from a pve perspective where Affliction might be the most durable pve dps spec that has ever been in game.

In terms of PvP I agree about UA which has been totally butchered to the point where no one fears clearing it anymore, which is a problem against any kind of aware healer, I also sympathise with arena locks wondering why they have 2 dead golden traits(I actually think they are largely ok from pve pov).

In terms of PvE I think Blizzard is most of the way to fixing up affliction, I think the main problem is our poor single target and how compromised we are in order to spec for our optimal single target. Just using mythic plus as an example I have a pretty decent build I run for most of them now which allows me to be a real asset on trash especially on bigger pulls(AC,StS,Sup,PS) the trouble is when it comes to bosses I am a total liability. While other classes have to make trades with talents, I dont think any others have to wreck there single target quite like we do to be good on trash(I think Destro has a similar problem in regards to this). It also leads to a very uninspiring dps rotation basically only involving drain life, UA and Agony.

My suggestion would be to make Siphon Life and Soul effigy(or a more user friendly skill that achieves the same purpose) baseline and replace them with talents that slightly improve single target. That way affliction can be passable at single target and very strong on long living multi target or vice versa depending on how we talent, our huge ramp up time with dots and effigy would still retain the weaknesses Blizzard seem to want specs to have now.

[Applenazi]

so affliction isnt top dps spec...?
omfg its the end of the world!
you speak as if affliction is horrible, when really it isnt, it has less fights overall where its the best of the three specs, but still its useable, not amazing, but every patch has that

Nowhere did I decry Afflictions DPS, it's ranking, sims, logs, or anything related to this at all. I actually specifically said I have no issue with affliction being "middle of the pack" and am in no way concerned with current or future numbers tuning passes.

I know that mmochamp is nothing but a collection of arguments, I myself love to argue here and have no qualms about arguing this but if someone does want to argue about my lock concerns it would save a lot of time to cite a specific quote from my thread and state why you feel it to be wrong. Raging out at me about shit I never said just seems nonsensical.

[Deleted]

Got it, appreciate you clearing that up. Destruction locks do in fact have more damage mitigation than Affliction locks, that isn't bias, its just numbers. Damage reduction and healing are not 1 to 1, especially when dampening begins to tick. And even if somehow none of that were true trading a 1 minute shield wall for a 3 minute shield wall because drain life heals modestly more for Affliction than Destruction is not at all an equal trade off.

Perhaps I am in the wrong. But you didn't even mention siphon life in your post which is a big plus to affliction, as affliction you can have corruption and siphon life up healing you and then drain life while all your dots are ticking on the target so you're putting out good damage while also healing yourself. As destruction if you have to use drain life you're just sat there doing nothing with just immolate rolling. Unending resolve is needed for destruction so in that scenario you can afford to cast your actual damaging spells. While under the effects of unending resolve you are stronger, yes, but the affliction lock isn't bound by any cooldown for their healing.

If you think affliction is still better then put some numbers to it, but don't ignore it. If siphon life, harvester, drain life and healthstone don't add up to more mitigation than unending resolve then show that it doesn't.

[FelPlague]

Perhaps I am in the wrong. But you didn't even mention siphon life in your post which is a big plus to affliction, as affliction you can have corruption and siphon life up healing you and then drain life while all your dots are ticking on the target so you're putting out good damage while also healing yourself. As destruction if you have to use drain life you're just sat there doing nothing with just immolate rolling. Unending resolve is needed for destruction so in that scenario you can afford to cast your actual damaging spells. While under the effects of unending resolve you are stronger, yes, but the affliction lock isn't bound by any cooldown for their healing.

If you think affliction is still better then put some numbers to it, but don't ignore it. If siphon life, harvester, drain life and healthstone don't add up to more mitigation than unending resolve then show that it doesn't.

dident mention siphon life
dident mention that when anyone in the raid uses a healthstone you are healed
dident mention its the only of the 3 specs that uses drain life in their rotation

[Applenazi]

If you think affliction is still better then put some numbers to it, but don't ignore it. If siphon life, harvester, drain life and healthstone don't add up to more mitigation than unending resolve then show that it doesn't.

Siphon Life is a talent, it isn't baseline. Also what you have done is stated that Siphon Life, Harvester of Souls, Drain life, and Healthstone are better than Unending Resolve, that's really stupid--I myself wouldn't do that, compare 1 ability to 4.

Secondly, healing and mitigation are two different things; I find it surprising that isn't known. It seems like you are asking me to explain to you why a destro lock is a harder target in a typical 3's than an Aff lock, is that what you are asking? I mean I'll do that, it's a lot of typing though so hopefully you will take a second to play through a typical 3's match in your head and then realize these things on your own.

Edit: Also within the current Aff PvP template Siphon Life heals for roughly 8K per second. I'm not sure I would frame that as a "big plus" lol. The heal from Siphon Life would heal me from 1% to full, as long as I am taking no damage, in just under six minutes.