Why must everything be accessible?

[HeiAggra]

All this arguments are pointless. The true casuals come and play the few hours they can do their content get the kills in HC and they happy with it. The problem is some ppl that lack of skill want the same gear and rewards then ppl with higher skill cap. I'm kinda causal i would say not causal nor hardcore i play 2 or 3 hours a day raid 3 days got some mythic kills on EN (3 by now) and i know i don't have the time to have the same progress the the harcore ones and im fine with it and they deserve the gear and the special titles and mouts because they worked hard for it. Not all stuff should be available to everyone because not everyone puts the same effort into it. Like in RL effort must be rewarded.

[ls-]

You mix up two things, content and reward. People want all content, like dungeons and raids, to be accesible. A lower difficulty is fine for that, its just to see the content, story, lore. People don't expect the best rewards for that content. They never asked for bis or all mounts or anything you get from harder content to be added to the easiest content.

So why is it a problem that people can do the same content on easy mode as you do on heroic or mythic? You will still get better gear and unique titles and mounts, to show of you epeen.

I guess you either missed whine about WoD LFR rewards or forgot about it

Ofc people want rewards, but many LOVE using noble things like story, lore, etc as an excuse. Majority of players doesn't give a f about lore in games in general, they want to progress and be rewarded.

[kojinshugi]

The problem is some ppl that lack of skill want the same gear and rewards then ppl with higher skill cap.

And that's not happening, outside of the rare occasion when one piece titanforges to some absurdly high ilevel. Most of their gear will still be way behind actual progression raiders.

That's not what the OP is talking about, anyway. He's upset that the content will become accessible to casuals. Kara and Court/Arcway getting heroic modes and being accessible through dungeon finder.

He thinks the game should return to the Vanilla/BC model where no one got to see later tiers unless they progressed through the entire endgame with their 25-man guild. It's not about rewards or being ahead of the curve, it's about that content only being accessible to "hardcore" players.

[Deleted]

What prompted this thread? It is unclear to me. But I think the simple answer would be; Blizzard wants to make money -> Rewarding players makes them feel good -> Players that feel good, stay subbed.

But i still think it is wierd that my Alt. 5/7HC; M+9. Has several items 880+. The only reason it even had 5HC is because I had to sub on it once when MT was unable to make it. No reason to even bother raiding, when the rewards from dungeons are so much better.

[Granyala]

Ofc people want rewards, but many LOVE using noble things like story, lore, etc as an excuse. Majority of players doesn't give a f about lore in games in general, they want to progress and be rewarded.

Fun fact:
Blizzards new "Diablo ermagawwd RNG fest" gear system made me go all "screw gear and item level, Imma just going to play".
Priestess is 850 now, which if I am informed correctly is still pretty crap. But I don't really care anymore b/c RNG (which always hated my guts) is making my blood boil if I think about it too much.

- - - Updated - - -

He thinks the game should return to the Vanilla/BC model where no one got to see later tiers unless they progressed through the entire endgame with their 25-man guild. It's not about rewards or being ahead of the curve, it's about that content only being accessible to "hardcore" players.

In his defense: Yes it felt pretty awesome to be attuned to Kara / Maggo / BT&MH after lots of FUN work. Esp if you found a guild that killed Kael before venturing into EZ-Mode part of T6.

Oh man... these were the days....

BUT: It also royally SUCKED having to devote precious raid time to attune newcomers by defeating still challenging bosses just to be able to keep a stable T6 roster.
IIRC attunements were not removed because causals whined. They eliminated them because raiding guilds told them that they are horrible and frustrating.

[ls-]

Fun fact:
Blizzards new "Diablo ermagawwd RNG fest" gear system made me go all "screw gear and item level, Imma just going to play".
Priestess is 850 now, which if I am informed correctly is still pretty crap. But I don't really care anymore b/c RNG (which always hated my guts) is making my blood boil if I think about it too much.

You need to level up your praying (to RNGesus) skills Yet another way of progression, ahaha

[Thereaperszone]

More casual players are getting Heroic Karazhan split into 2 wings, and more serious players are getting Mythic+ Kara wings.

Everyone wins, nobody loses- why are you all bitching?

They are bitching because they need this game to feel like the are worth something its all they have.

[Kapaya]

Because everyone pays the same amount to play the game - these days they wouldn't get away with not having the entire playerbase be able to complete something. Its the communities view that "i should have the same rights to see stuff that old mate joe blogs who plays 19hrs a day has" - not Blizzards

End of Story

I am not against things becoming more accessible, but please stop with this retarded logic. Literally everyone can raid, clear content or PvP. If you just suck major cock at it then it's honestly not Blizzards fault, it's simply yours.

Holy shit how can people still think this is an argument...

[Granyala]

You need to level up your praying (to RNGesus) skills Yet another way of progression, ahaha

I guess so.
Still find it funny that I researched "you can now wear 2 legendaries!" w/o ever having seen one.
*smacks RNGsus Voodoo doll*

[HeiAggra]

They are bitching because they need this game to feel like the are worth something its all they have.

Omg it's going to be a wippe fest

[Deleted]

They are bitching because they need this game to feel like the are worth something its all they have.

I think this is very accurate for many of the "hardworking" players who are extremely disappointed at "casuals" getting things.
It's hard to feel too sorry for someone who has "invested" into a videogame though. Bad life choices and all that... (I spent a lot of "hardworking" time in MUDs during college as well - completely wasted, but I grew up).

[Granyala]

I spent a lot of "hardworking" time in MUDs during college as well - completely wasted, but I grew up

Did you have fun doing it?
Then it is not wasted (unless you lost control and your RL/Health suffered for it).

I spent tons of time in Azeroth in my 10 years of WoW and do not regret it at all. I've built a lot of fun memories and had a good time. I still love this world, which is why I casually continue to play. No I won't get uber raid gear, and that's totally okay. After all skill and effort should be rewarded.

Don't fool yourself: we do many things that are ultimately a "waste of time".

People w/o inclination for music would tell me that picking up my flute every day and practicing is "wasting my time" and I should do something "productive" instead. But I don't want to. This is my life. I want to spend my limited free time on this earth doing stuff I find fun and not adhere to other peoples standards of productivity.

[HumbleDuck]

While I think associating accessibility with gear availability is stupid, for the sake of argument let's say it's true.
LFD and LFR participants are not accessing the gear ( and hence the benefit you associate with it), they are accessing lower quality LFD/LFR gear. So by your logic actually there is still tones of content inaccessible by people who are only interested in solo play.
Now back to the point, I believe it is very productive to make every instance of the world accessible to everyone, this not only let everyone experience all the aspects of the game, but also let people choose which path to take on for further progression.

[HeiAggra]

While I think associating accessibility with gear availability is stupid, for the sake of argument let's say it's true.
LFD and LFR participants are not accessing the gear ( and hence the benefit you associate with it), they are accessing lower quality LFD/LFR gear. So by your logic actually there is still tones of content inaccessible by people who are only interested in solo play.
Now back to the point, I believe it is very productive to make every instance of the world accessible to everyone, this not only let everyone experience all the aspects of the game, but also let people choose which path to take on for further progression.

They are acesseable to everyone. Make a group and go there, want hc and mythic raids? They are there. Mythic+? They are there. Or they removed them for LRF players?

[Rifter]

This post interpreted into what the OP is really trying to say:

'Hey everyone I'm a mythic raider who's badass - look at me. I don't really give a two monkey's fuck about casual players but I'm acting like I do so that you'll notice that I play high difficulty content because that's all I have going for me in my life.'

[Deleted]

Oh just another selfish elithist

[Deleted]

While I am inclined to agree entirely with you. It isn't a secret that there are far more casuals then "serious" players. But I guess what I don't understand is why people don't look forward to obtaining goals anymore? Like getting vials back in BC and finally being able to ENTER T6 raids was such a rush. That type of thing would NEVER exist today.

The world is coming to an end. Everything is so (relatively ... - and yea, I know of people with bad fortune) comfortable and easy that people cannot cope with struggles anymore.

The entire tumblr feminist movement with their safe rooms and their inability to cope with differing opinions (the very visible part of that community at least) are a result of their helicopter-parents not allowing for them to learn how to cope with any sort of conflict at all and serve as a prime example of people who cannot and do not want to cope with any sort of struggle at all.


I will never understand why people who do not want to overcome a challenge play a video game instead of watching a movie.

And I will die a little on the inside each team an artist decides to stop creating actual art in order to appease the masses. In my eyes at least, true Art can never speak to everybody. You need to get it. It needs to touch you. And that is something so personal that you cannot expect it to work the same way for everybody. (how many people can HONESTLY say that they are overwhelmed by Mona Lisa's beauty or something like this? It's an accepted master piece, but I and I swear to god 90% of the people going to see it and taking pictures of it have no idea what the fuzz is about.)

Once it stops being personal by trying to accomodate everyone, it stops being art.

And damn, although I'm devastated by the thought of losing many a great piece of art to artists selling out, I do get it. I wish money didn't have such a high standing in our world, so that people could follow their passions instead of money.

[Akka]

That shits for my job You know, in the real world where effort and work ethic and such are lauded and massive hours spent perfecting your video game skills are derided as the waste of time that they really are.

Actually, it's a unique situation for video games. For about every other hobby, dedication, involvement and hard work is considered good.
Someone plays tennis, football, chess, or even paint or write ? If he spend quite a bit of time and try to improve, he'll get accolade, not mockery.
Only video game have this stigma that spending time in your hobby to perfect yourself is "a waste of time" (a hobby IS a "waste of time" by definition, BTW, which seems to be often forgotten in these arguments).

[Deleted]

Because the vast majority of players don't want to/can't spend hours a day playing a game, yet they still have to pay money for it. So that is why... every time Blizzard tries to cater to the ''hardcore players who deserve it for wasting their life'', it massively backfires. Like the Cata heroics at launch, the trash murdered you if you didn't CC half of the pack, the dungeons took like an hour... Games are meant to be fun stress relief, not a second job you have to pay money for. So yes, everything must be accessible

[yetgdhfgh]

Mythic Normal was a mistake and blizz knows it

It should have been Normal, Heroic and Mythic+ and blizz is prolly gonna keep it that way for the foreseeable future.

Lets be real some people have social anxiety about trying to get into groups its like when you was at school and noone likes the feeling when you see that 100th Your application has been declined it puts people off and they just say you know what fuck it i will just go and play BF1 instead and blizz loses money.

My friend still cant get into a Mythic Arcway or CoS to finish off his suramar quest cause either noone is doing it or they feel his gear is too low and he has axiety about starting his own group cause lets face it some people are followers not leaders.