Should blizzard just bring back Reforging?

[alucardtnuoc]

Oh i agree that 850 ring is better but it shouldn't be and that's the point. The issue is that rings and necks aren't balanced well at all. but i don't think reforging is the solution. They just need to do a better job of balancing gear and making secondary stats closer in value or adding main stats to rings and necks again.

Ah, my bad I thought you were saying a ring is better even if it has worse stats but 10 ilvls higher.

It's hard to balance the stats, breakpoints for haste (extra GCD in burn phases) inflate the power of mastery for some classes as an example. Fire mages have a softcap on crit at around 87% and then it starts to be worst than int. These sorts of things are VERY hard to balance around.

[Hctaz]

Reforging basically happened based off of a robot telling you what you needed..

This was only the case because you had stats that had an EXACT cap. You needed to have precisely this much hit and expertise rating. Any more was pointless and any less you were gimping yourself. It was the only stat like this and it was nearly impossible to figure out the exact optimal way to do it by hand so we had computers calculate it for us. With the removal of stats like this you wouldn't require an addon to tell you what to do.

Their reasoning for why they removed reforging was absolutely stupid. "We didn't like you needing a robot for certain caps so we removed it... and the stats that made you do this in the first place"

Nice.

[anaxie]

I agree with you about the gear but I don't think Reforging will fix it. Hopefully Blizzard will approach gear differently next expansion. I'd honestly be fine if it just went back to the way it was before they introduced WF'd in ToT.

Amen I'd probably play again

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It was a pain in the ass which required you to port back to town and use an addon to rejig your stats every time you got a new piece of gear.

Best case scenario, they'd let you reforge anywhere, which means you would literally just click a button on an addon and it'd be done. Minimal interaction for mandatory benefit, that's the worst of both worlds design-wise.

Honestly if they want to do more with stats they should consider scrapping Warcraft's entire stat system and replacing it with something more modern.

WOW thank god a mount and summons exist. RIGHT

also someth9ing more modern..

SOMETHING MORE MODERN?

What the fuck does this mean.

Frankly and SIMPLY what they should do since gear is so fucking mass RNG

i mean we have 4 stats. Fuck vertaslity. so that leaves 3

JUST FUCKING PUT 3 stats on gear give them the same number.

There done. was that so hard blizzard. oh and now you know what stats classes will have WOW omg you can balance shit now. holy crap!

[Hctaz]

No need for reforging. Hit/expertise are gone, thank god, so its useless. They just need to better balance secondary stats so you don't have a stat that's so worthless that any piece of gear that has it is an automatic downgrade regardless of item level.

They can't do this without more class homogenization. Fire mages are fire mages because of their crit procs. Demon Hunters get special benefits on crit proc.

[bufferunderrun]

And then tanks go back to doing 30k DPS to everyone else doing 300k because they have to stack Defense Rating to prevent themselves from being crit, Hit Rating to spell hit cap to make sure taunts don't miss, and Expertise to keep threat, and your pool of active tanks goes from small to insignificant. This is a terrible idea.

Reforging doesn't really need to be around, they just need to find a way to balance stats better for the FEW outlying classes that really require tweaking to their secondaries to make them worthwhile. Fire Mages and Havoc Demon Hunters are the two specs that are ridiculously affected by this problem, and that's because of how important Crit is to these two specs. These specs are so out of line with crit that it outvalues their main stat in some, or most, cases.

Versatility isn't something that can really be changed or rebalanced unless it's done on a per spec basis, so haste and mastery need to be tweaked for these two specs in particular to make them useful. It's either that or reduce the value of Crit for these two classes and offset this loss with buffs somewhere else; for example, reducing the Fury refund on Chaos Strike crits but buffing the base damage on it, or reducing the damage of Pyroblast while buffing the damage of Fireball to make Haste a more attractive stat and making the spec a bit less reliant on Pyroblast for the majority of its damage.

Another way to alleviate some of the problem is to just make rings and necks function like other pieces of gear and grant your primary stat like everything else so that higher item level pieces are actually relevant in an expansion where secondary stats are higher early and scale up slower.

na current playerbase have very few new players most are old vet returning i don't see anyone scared by few stat returning.

[Deleted]

since they are unable to balance, yes. but it's just a bandaid. they really just need to hire people who can do the job correctly.

I like how people think balancing a 12 classes or 36 specializations is easy. Balancing is done around future patches and gear as well.

It can be done easy. Remove stats from the game. Make everyone playing the same spec equal. Remove all damage providing talents and make trinkets give primary stat. Weapons are weapons that should have only DPS and no stats. Make specs have different animations but same amount of spells that work the same way and just balance the numbers then. only keep ilvl. and increase damage done by x% for every itemlevel. There you go.

Just because you think one spec is better at something or an ability is not as strong as you think it should be doesn't mean it is unbalanced. I would like to see people who complain to do the recap of all 36 specs. Give you a plained down simulator that lets you adjust everything and see how you would make all 36 specs balanced while keeping them interesting, intuitive, on the same level of complexity and the same level of damage and unique on at least 75% raid encaunters while not changing the encounters.

[Deleted]

No. Even if Blizzard brought it back there would still be a Bis item you would end up farming. Changes nothing.

[Typhoria]

No. Even if Blizzard brought it back there would still be a Bis item you would end up farming. Changes nothing.

Sure, but if you have terrible luck with drops, having an alternative with some of the stat you need would be nice again.

[Deleted]

so you want them to make all the stats give the exact same amount of damage and healing and reduction to every spec, that way gear stats doesent matter, as the stuff it gives is the same no matter what stats it has? ok cool, then lets just have gear be a ilvl, no stats, cause if 500 haste, 500 crit, and 500 mast do all the same damage as you say they should, then whats the point?

This is exactly what they should do. Just have the items give some percentage boost to stats based on the item level. Why the hell should we have to go every item over with some spreadsheet to determine whether it is actually an upgrade (or have an addon to do that for us)? Is that fun to anyone? There is already enough RNG in this game already, no need for stat RNG. Better item level piece should be an upgrade, period.

[FelPlague]

This is exactly what they should do. Just have the items give some percentage boost to stats based on the item level. Why the hell should we have to go every item over with some spreadsheet to determine whether it is actually an upgrade (or have an addon to do that for us)? Is that fun to anyone? There is already enough RNG in this game already, no need for stat RNG. Better item level piece should be an upgrade, period.

because then a peice of gear might aswell be "ilvl 890" nothing else, then have your damage, healing, and reduction increase with average ilvl...

would that be fun at all?

[Sevarin]

Community: Reforging is too hard and unnecessary. It makes the game unfair for people who don't know how to properly optimize.

:Blizzard removes Reforging:

Community: This game is too bland and we need Reforging to make gear interesting again, bring it back!

im fairly certain the people that wanted reforging gone were the minority. besides, they cant bitch anymore. hit and expertise are gone. ive wanted reforging back since the day those bastards removed it. id actually prefer more reforging than you could have before.

[Deleted]

because then a peice of gear might aswell be "ilvl 890" nothing else, then have your damage, healing, and reduction increase with average ilvl...

would that be fun at all?

Yes. Item level and armour type is all that is needed.

[Gorgodeus]

As long as they can't balance stats properly, absolutely yes. Reforging ultimately proved to solve more problems than it introduced, and seeing that completely worthless stats for some classes is still something very real, it's a fairly decent way to keep the bad luck in check.

This is totally wrong. The actual reason reforging was removed was twofold: 1. players had to use outside tools to optimally reforge several pieces, and sometimes all pieces of gear, simply to min/max when they obtained 1 piece of gear. 2. Being able to stack ones best stat via reforging threw balance way off, and made it impossible to remotely balance some specs.

[FelPlague]

Yes. Item level and armour type is all that is needed.

and that is stupid

[Deleted]

and that is stupid

Why? Is calculating the exact value of every item fun to you? The playrs should be able to play the game with the information available in the game; they should not be forced to google stat weights and calculate the actual worth of the items. The item level is there to tell you whether the item is better than the stuff you got or not and it should be enough.

[Kpmk]

since they are unable to balance, yes. but it's just a bandaid. they really just need to hire people who can do the job correctly.

Been playing since 2004 and blizzard's balancing is fine.

[clevin]

Why? Is calculating the exact value of every item fun to you? The playrs should be able to play the game with the information available in the game; they should not be forced to google stat weights and calculate the actual worth of the items. The item level is there to tell you whether the item is better than the stuff you got or not and it should be enough.

Except iLevel doesn't always tell you what's better. I got a new back from a quest this morning. It's got critical/haste, my two best stats. It's better than the back I had... which was 5 ilevels higher. This is even more true of necks and rings that don't carry any of your primary stat.

Now... is it a HUGE difference? No. But why NOT let me reforge some of the mastery on the cloak I had to crit or haste so it's even better for me? Where, precisely, is the harm in letting people who DO want to really learn about their stats to adjust them within some limits?

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This is totally wrong. The actual reason reforging was removed was twofold: 1. players had to use outside tools to optimally reforge several pieces, and sometimes all pieces of gear, simply to min/max when they obtained 1 piece of gear. ...

No, it was because in MoP we had hit and expertise caps that we balanced around. You couldn't just reforge, say, mastery to crit, you had to manage hit and expertise too (because you also didn't want to go OVER cap as that was a wasted stat budget).

This isn't true now. Now, we can simply say "I want crit or haste, not versatility or mastery.... so I'll reforge some of those stats to my preferred one and make this reward even better."

[Voidism]

Yes please, reforging back or some other way of "stacking" your favourite stat.

[Deleted]

Except iLevel doesn't always tell you what's better.

Indeed. But it should.

I got a new back from a quest this morning. It's got critical/haste, my two best stats. It's better than the back I had... which was 5 ilevels higher. This is even more true of necks and rings that don't carry any of your primary stat.

And it is absolutely impossible to know this with the information available in the game.

Now... is it a HUGE difference? No. But why NOT let me reforge some of the mastery on the cloak I had to crit or haste so it's even better for me? Where, precisely, is the harm in letting people who DO want to really learn about their stats to adjust them within some limits?

But if you can customise the stats to be optimal why just not get rid of the variable stats altogether and remove the tedious research and clicking to reforge?

[ForTehNguyen]

yes they should. Reforging was only annoying when you still had to deal with the 7% miss rate, expertise, then your entire reforge was based on that. Now that those are gone, it wouldnt be annoying anymore