[Balance] Legion Discussion

[huth]

Jut caught this on wow head, I believe from slootbags interviews with celestalon. Hopefully something to look forward to at least

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257471/b...treams-roundup

Also, Hibernate might come back.

[Lahis]

Hibernate was always a very weak CC. Only working on beasts and dragons really limits it when most enemies are humanoid.

[joltcola1234]

Hibernate was always a very weak CC. Only working on beasts and dragons really limits it when most enemies are humanoid.

I'll take it over nothing

[Myztikrice]

I'd rather the brain power and man hours spent on something useful

[wing5wong]

Hmmm, cant say i miss hibernate tbh. limited opportunities to use it.
The vortex should return for boomy

[Alame]

No, I don't think any of our talents will be baked into the spec.

The other talents on T15 fill a niche. FON is still better for a lot of solo content. Starlord is really mediocre in PVP.

T30 talents are fine.

T45 talents are fine.

T60 talents... Mass Entanglement should be scrapped, it's never been good in MOP, WOD, nor Legion.

T75 talents are fine. Stellar Flare needs a buff to pull away from Incarnation.

T90 talents are fine. shooting stars probably should be buffed to 20% proc chance for 3 AP.

T100 talents.... Stellar Drift is mediocre. FOE is undertuned and should properly change to a 20-100 AP cost spell with a fixed duration and lower cooldown. NB is fine, but LS needs to work the same of SW.

StFl would have to be buffed significantly to overtake Ring + Incarn - at which point it becomes the unquestioned best talent in the tier. I don't really see that happening.

The good news is that they're obviously looking at talent changes if they're talking about baking talents in to be baseline. Hopefully that sees some form of rework to t100 talents.

[lappee]

T60 talents... Mass Entanglement should be scrapped, it's never been good in MOP, WOD, nor Legion.

T100 talents.... Stellar Drift is mediocre. FOE is undertuned and should properly change to a 20-100 AP cost spell with a fixed duration and lower cooldown. NB is fine, but LS needs to work the same of SW.

Both points there are pretty point on PvE wise. PvP wise its not the case though. Even FoE is usable in PvP with the new root talent.

[Commandor]

My list for improving Balance druids gameplay in 7.1.5:

1. Mastery to benefit all key spells that are not currently use mastery:
a. Moon spells - Reduce regeneration time by XYZ% for each mastery point
b. Starsurge - Instead of static small increase, I would love to see more interactive increase similar to empowerment system.
c. DoTs - On single target or cleave targets, allow them to benefit from mastery through Stellarflare applying a XYZ% lower version of Stellar Empowerment debuff.

2. Fixing the gold artifact traits that are mediocre and not rewarding right now.
a. Echoing star - Scrap this mediocre talent, let it be useful to (Starfall now applies Moonfire to targets)
b. Power of Goldrin - 25% damage of Starsurge, not worthy of a gold trait, let it be powerful (Your Moonspells empower your Starsurge to deal XYZ% extra damage for each mastery point enforcing the debuff applied by Moonspells)
c. Moon and Stars - Needs a buff to 2% for incarnation per spell cast and 4.5% for Celestial Alignment and fixing it so Starsurge also grants a tick of the buff.

3. Improving Stellar drift, Shooting Stars, Stellarflare, FoE
a. Stellar drift - On use talent, allows you to cast while moving for 10 seconds, 1 minute CD
b. Shooting Stars - Increases the damage of Starfall by XYZ% and DoT 10% chance to generate 5 AsP.
c. Stellarflare - Buff the damage + applies 80% of Stellar Empowerment on the target
d. FoE - Increase radius to 15 yards, reduce cost to 5 initial AsP and 10 AsP each tick.
e. Warrior of Elune - Scrap the talent, Your Next 2 Starsurge cost no AsP


4. Rewarding the long Ramp up for AoE with a moderately higher sustained AoE DPS.
a. Starfall spreads Moonfire through the artifact gold trait (in place of echoing stars)
b. Starfall damage increased by 50%
c. DoT damage increased by 20%

5. Scrap Armor increase for Balance form and Artifact talent, replace it with Damage reduction, or buff armor bonus and Barkskin damage reduction for Balance to 50%.

[Lucrece]

StFl would have to be buffed significantly to overtake Ring + Incarn - at which point it becomes the unquestioned best talent in the tier. I don't really see that happening.

The good news is that they're obviously looking at talent changes if they're talking about baking talents in to be baseline. Hopefully that sees some form of rework to t100 talents.

To be frank, Stellar Drif is only as strong as Starfall is.

And it should be pretty obvious by now that Starfall has been in need of serious tweaking for a while.

The nerfs they did in beta to starsurge should be reverted as well to help in single target.

Most importantly, our affinity abilities should be castable in form, and Barkskin needs to be bumped up to a 35% damage reduction and 70% cast lockout reduction.

Ursol's Vortex should be returned to the spec.

Bash should be made a 30 yard ranged ability on a 45 sec cd, or a melee range conal stun like leg sweep for monks on a 45 sec cd.

[huth]

b. Starsurge - Increase damage OR Increase crit damage by XYZ% for each mastery point

Check again. It already does that.

Most of your "improvements" are just thinly veiled "buff me"s. Very boring. Not to mention that this style of feedback is pretty useless anyway. Blizzard isn't looking for some armchair developer telling them what to do, they want to know what we consider problems and why.

[Slippykins]

I don't think Boomkin cleave should be buffed, considering that Blizzard wants each class to have their strengths and weaknesses, and our cleave is certainly where we fall short. I would like to see our single-target buffed if anything, that way we can keep up well with other classes for the most part in raid, still do extremely well in dot-cleave but suffer in clumped AoE.

[wing5wong]

I don't think Boomkin cleave should be buffed, considering that Blizzard wants each class to have their strengths and weaknesses, and our cleave is certainly where we fall short. I would like to see our single-target buffed if anything, that way we can keep up well with other classes for the most part in raid, still do extremely well in dot-cleave but suffer in clumped AoE.

that ideal is all well and good, assuming there are encounters where this stlye of play acutally gets to happen. it currently doesnt, outside of rbgs

[Slippykins]

that ideal is all well and good, assuming there are encounters where this stlye of play acutally gets to happen. it currently doesnt, outside of rbgs

Nythendra, Ursoc, Dragons and Il'gynoth are all fights where single-target is prominent with cleave or dot-cleave opportunities. I think this style of play fits those fights perfectly well.

[wing5wong]

Nythendra, Ursoc, Dragons and Il'gynoth are all fights where single-target is prominent with cleave or dot-cleave opportunities. I think this style of play fits those fights perfectly well.

wait, you're seeing us as a single target dps class?
in my eyes we are spread aoe/council > st >>>> burst aoe, needing minor tweaks to ST to compensate for lack of dps legendaries, and a decent boost to quick burst aoe.

we would need a significant ST boost to be considered a ST primary i think
nythendra is st with burst AoE - we fall short here
dragons is split cleave, and many many classes perform far better than us there too.
ursoc is ST with ~50% 2nd target cleave - again, we fall well short.
ilgynoth is ST, disguised as aoe. - we suck here. padding adds leads to random blood deaths, and wipes

[Slippykins]

wait, you're seeing us as a single target dps class?
in my eyes we are spread aoe/council > st >>>> burst aoe, needing minor tweaks to ST to compensate for lack of dps legendaries, and a decent boost to quick burst aoe.

I think spread aoe is really lacking in the current expansion, and I agree our dot cleave is our defining characteristic. I would like to see a buff to single-target so that on fights where there isn't dot-cleave (ie. almost all) we can still be highly competitive.

[Commandor]

Check again. It already does that.

Most of your "improvements" are just thinly veiled "buff me"s. Very boring. Not to mention that this style of feedback is pretty useless anyway. Blizzard isn't looking for some armchair developer telling them what to do, they want to know what we consider problems and why.

Mastery affect Starsurge damage? It does not. Starsurge buffs LS/SW but Mastery currently does nothing for Starsurge/Moonspells

This will change the way we gear/use mastery. Its not just straight buff.

That is not an arm chair game developer telling developers what to do, I did state the problem in case you missed it (Mastery does not affect signature Balance spells, Starsurge, Moon Spells and DoTs on signle target) among the other points.

[huth]

Mastery affect Starsurge damage? It does not. Starsurge buffs LS/SW but Mastery currently does nothing for Starsurge/Moonspells

This will change the way we gear/use mastery. Its not just straight buff.

That is not an arm chair game developer telling developers what to do, I did state the problem in case you missed it (Mastery does not affect signature Balance spells, Starsurge, Moon Spells and DoTs on signle target) among the other points.

Increases Starfall and Starsurge damage, and the effect of Lunar, Solar, and Stellar Empowerments by an additional 16%.

Check first next time.

Also, yes, you do tell them what to do, and you don't explain the issues at all. You simply made a list of changes you want to see.
Explain what you think is lacking, and why that is a problem. Not what you think should be done to fix it without any explanation of why.

[Deleted]

btw making mastery affect every spell we have just makes it a flat damage increase, which is not only extremely boring, but also never going to happen. Suggestions are fine, explaining our issues is even better, but please think it through before you post. What would all our spells benefitting from mastery achieve? Answer: Absolutely nothing, other than forcing every boomkin out there to completely switch up their current gear, and making mastery an incredibly boring stat.

[Commandor]

btw making mastery affect every spell we have just makes it a flat damage increase, which is not only extremely boring, but also never going to happen. Suggestions are fine, explaining our issues is even better, but please think it through before you post. What would all our spells benefitting from mastery achieve? Answer: Absolutely nothing, other than forcing every boomkin out there to completely switch up their current gear, and making mastery an incredibly boring stat.

Then your argument is also suggesting that Haste and Crit are boring talents since they benefit all spells!

I states the problem clearly twice, which boils down to the issue that Balance druids are gearing away from Mastery until they have 30%+ haste for a good reason, it is not on par with other stats, not because other stats are done well, but because the mastery system is not working well. Moreover I suggested that mastery benefit each spell in a different way, for instance, reduce the charge time on moon spells.

I do not see a problem also in mastery being slightly better then secondary stat since it is the mastery of the class where the mechanic is evolving around, that is the reason why top DPS specs gear towards mastery, not away from it.

- - - Updated - - -

Check first next time.

Also, yes, you do tell them what to do, and you don't explain the issues at all. You simply made a list of changes you want to see.
Explain what you think is lacking, and why that is a problem. Not what you think should be done to fix it without any explanation of why.

I think I was not clear in explaining my self. I was suggesting that mastery affect Starsurge in a different way instead of a static increase. A mechanic similar to empowerments to make it more interesting.

Moreover I made a very detailed post on how I arrived to these suggestions, these are the summary which I have not just arrived to by mistake but through experience and Simming.

Here is the post I made 2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

1. Then your argument is also suggesting that Haste, Intellect and Crit are boring talents since they benefit all spells!

2. I states the problem clearly twice, which boils down to the issue that Balance druids are gearing away from Mastery until they have 30%+ haste for a good reason, it is not on par with other stats, not because other stats are done well, but because the mastery system is not working well. Moreover I suggested that mastery benefit each spell in a different way, for instance, reduce the charge time on moon spells.

3. I do not see a problem also in mastery being slightly better then secondary stat since it is the mastery of the class where the mechanic is evolving around, that is the reason why top DPS specs gear towards mastery, not away from it.

1. I never said that it is boring because it affects all spells, I said it would be boring because it would be a FLAT damage increase. Also, the whole point of "mastery" is to do something better, not to just increase all dmg done by X%. Also, yes, intellect is a boring stat, why do you want more of them?

2. I would argue mastery not being amazing is NOT a problem, it scales poorly for multidotting and FoE, but on single target or starfall AoE it works fine. If you want mastery to be better you can just reduce the amount of rating required per percent. Also "mastery isn't working well" is not only extremely subjective, it also isn't explaining anything. Why is it not working well? Suggesting that Mastery should do something else is perfectly fine, but blizzard will never make huge revamps like that mid expansion, so it is rather useless at this point.

3. So you do not think that making the current gear set for everybody completely useless is a problem? Also the argument of having mastery being the best stat "because it is the mastery of the class" doesn't make any sense, if every spec in the game just stacked mastery, gearing would be increadibly stupid ("That piece of gear has no mastery? Guess we have to disenchant it since nobody in the raid can use it"). And no, top DPS specs don't always gear mastery, that is just straight up wrong.