Hardcore vs Casual - Solved

[Thazienne]

I've got a great suggestion. In line with the Mythic Only servers idea.

As stated: scale things up. Instead of enemies in the Broken Isles getting easier as your gear level increases; they scale up too. This ensures that no matter how big your e-peen gets, you still have to struggle when ganged up on by 4-5 mobs at once during WQ's. No more "So lame, I literally AFK'd that WQ and got siikk 880 lewt" crying.

No flying. Limit flight paths to one point per zone. Everyone loves artificial difficulty!

Remove Artifact Knowledge! Because it SHOULD take forever to max out that Artifact.

No more PVP Stat scaling. If Joe can spend more time grinding gear than you, he SHOULD be able to fart in your general direction and take out half your HP bar.

Double the damage and health OF EVERYTHING! Hard should be hard, right?

#sarcasmfont

[Deleted]

This is hilarious. You assume it is the hardcore that "hate" the casuals. Well they don't. It's the tryhards that feel entitled. You could see it happen right after launch;

The "hardcore" leveled up, did heroics / mythics. Then the try hards came in, who initially got carried by the hardcore trough the same heroics / mythics, then set absurd ilvl requirements for the people following after that. And if you don't meet their requirement you are "bad" and should "l2p" because god-forbid you might join on an alt.

EDIT: On topic; splitting those 2 groups up would destroy the ingame economy. For both groups!

[Darkeon]

The forums are loaded with complaints about people complaining noone will take them into raids/mythics because their item level is too low, insisting it's their right to get into those things because they pay subrscription too.

How is that in any way related to your original comment?

[cFortyfive]

What do you guys think could this solve the Hardcore vs Casual debate?

A server with less botters, more runspeed and "+1 level " on mobs. Thanks I suppose and I thought the lady at the doctor's office I had to deal with today was dumb.

[Deleted]

It's not the "Hardcore" that care - it's the "casuals" that are drawn to whatever the "hardcore" players do, like moths to the flame.
If this wasn't the case, casuals would by now be satisfied doing LFR and heroic 5mans. But they aren't. They never will.

Something a lot of people may have forgotten:
There used to be 1 difficulty in raiding. Now there are 4.

WoW isn't "pay to beat the game" nor "pay to get an achievement that says you beat the game".
It's "pay to play". Playing includes losing if you're not good enough.

Today's WoW suffers from an ever expanding mentality of rushing to the end content.
Blizzard did this.
In WotLK, players had fun for ages doing heroic 5mans and slowly getting into 10man raiding and perhaps 25man.
Eventually we had pugs.
People still did 5mans and naxxramas before getting into Ulduar.

Blizzard ruined Naxx and Ulduar when they added ToC5man because it trivialized it.
They did it again with ICC5. And again with ZA & ZG. And DS5.

Once Nighthold releases, everyone will want to be doing Nighthold RIGHT NOW. Not in a week or a month.
No one will want to do Emerald Nightmare anymore.
People want the latest thing NOW.
People ruin their own fun and burn themselves out.

Sure, people want latest things. Nothing wrong about it.
Retro stuff is liked by tiny amount of people.

[nekobaka]

The forums are loaded with complaints about people complaining noone will take them into raids/mythics because their item level is too low, insisting it's their right to get into those things because they pay subrscription too.

Back yard players are also not complaining about not playing on the same field and wearing the same gear.

[Deleted]

I do not mind the idea of mythic servers, but I will not play in one. I imagine like the Ogame servers, that there are some that are like 2x speed, even 4x. Imagine if in one server the xp it reduced to half or in another the speed of xp will increased by 2. You can also extends to a drops, like a 2x drop change or something similar, for people that can only play a certant amount of time.

[Deleted]

I would love a "hardcore" or "heroic" server

Overall tougher mobs , they might hit harder, have additional skills, heal each other etc

Overall harder dungeons, raids etc

Overall harder quests (not just, kill 20, instead of 10. but rather, the mobs are rarely pulled 1 by 1, for example. depending on the quest of course)


mobs scale to your level on a global scale. not just in broken isles(but the same system used)

No LFG system of any kind. Instead, a good old global chat

more advanced recipes used for crafting. getting 2 copper ore to make a chest armor? c'mon...

No more vendor puchased "good" stuff. (recipes, blood trader, tokens for tiers, so you get the item you need...) it's all random drops out in the world

You'd still be able to cross realm but the invited players would get a notification they had joined this "hardcore" server. and if you get invited, you just get notified that you've joined a normal-style server

That is my dream.

[WowIsDead64]

I was thinking this morning after reading the forums about Kara being queue for normal and heroic, i admit i was not expecting the backlash from the mythic players.

So for all of WOW a large amount of hardcore players hate anything that casuals can do be it LFG, LFD and dont like the idea that casuals can progress.

My idea is to have Mythic Servers, let me explain.

Do you mean pristine servers? Yeah. Just make servers without flying, LFD, LFR, etc., finally let this features alone on normal servers and close this discussion forever. So, as we can say "Don't like PVP - transfer to PVE server", we would be able to say "Don't like flying/LFD/LFR - transfer to pristine server". As simple, as that.

[Deleted]

The backlash is not from mythic players, nor elite players.

The backlash is for elitists who have a weird need to feel special - the more they have that others don't, the better they feel. They still got the feeling of beating a harder content, but they don't want anyone else to beat the content in a easier format.

Players like those are, at the end, toxic.

In the end, there is no debate of Hardcore VS Casual. WoW can easly hold both.

I really don't see he problem with having things not everyone can get. Giving everyone everything they want takes away the feeling of progress and success. Having to really work hard to get a item or a mount gives a rewarding feeling. When everyone have the same item / mount it's no longer rewarding.
During my days in vanilla i remember really being happy when i got a legendary item. In WOTLK i barely cared when i got something and I bet it's even worse today.

It's not as much about feeling special as it is about the game being rewarding.

[Deleted]

Nothing will cure the hardcore cancer. Offering the cancer an isolated location won't work since a hardcore can't truly be hardcore without casuals to retch his hardcoreness at.

[ShiyoKozuki]

What you are describing started from the moment you hit 80. Naxx was so easy because it was an easy raid plus the fact you had some ilevel 200 gear going into it as Heroic 5-mans in Wrath were a joke. It only got worse as the expansion rolled onward and we got LFD which made everything in the game bar high-level raids and arenas worthless.

Yeah, WOTLK was the beginning of the end of the MMO genre. It started everything bad. Every bad and crappy thing added to MMO's in over a decade can be traced back to WOTLK.

[Deleted]

Yeah, WOTLK was the beginning of the end of the MMO genre. It started everything bad. Every bad and crappy thing added to MMO's in over a decade can be traced back to WOTLK.

That is a very subjective statement of yours. I just miss the facts, and the point in this discussion.

Personally i don't see those servers work to well. Hardcore need the casuals more than the casuals need the hardcore. But subjectively i think it would be better to have all different kinds of content (Dungeons, Raids, and PvP) in many different levels of difficulties. So that everyone can find the content he/she likes at a level of difficulty it fits him or her best.

- - - Updated - - -

Has that ever been the Case? From my perspective it has been the hardcore fighting tooth and nail to keep their small part of the game as casuals demand more and more of it be lowered to their level.

You have the aggressors and defenders reversed..

Do you have one, just one, example for that to happen? If you are one of those pathetic short sighted people that think raids are exclusive to hardcores you are wrong. Not only from my subjective standpoint. Blizzard saw that only a tiny fraction of their customers ever got to see their beautiful raids. And they tried to develop methods to get more people to see and experience those types of contents. And still... NOTHING has been taken of "the hardcore". It is just that the casuals gained something that doesn't even touch what the hardcore already have.

So what is the one example you can show to me in which case hardcore players have to defend something in order to keep it and not getting it taken away and given to the casuals?

[stonemonkeylives]

Elitists and casuals (the latter of which I am a member of) would have nothing whinge about, as such the world as we know it would end. Simple fact elitists can't exist without casuals and vice versa, as there would only be gamers! Crazy, I know right...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Deleted]

I was thinking this morning after reading the forums about Kara being queue for normal and heroic, i admit i was not expecting the backlash from the mythic players.

So for all of WOW a large amount of hardcore players hate anything that casuals can do be it LFG, LFD and dont like the idea that casuals can progress.

My idea is to have Mythic Servers, let me explain.

Once a player hits 110 they get the option of a free transfer to a mythic server, no one under 110 can play on it. All content is mythic, dungeons and raids and all mobs in normal zones are plus 1 level to add challenge to world quests and of course the WQ rewards would also be scaled up.

This can bring many benefits so lets take the AH for example, you wont get botters farming herbs and ore and selling it at inflated prices, you wont get LFR players selling their runes for stupid money on the AH for the mythic raiders, costs of flasks and pots would be reasonable allowing mythic raiders to control their own economy for the mats they require for raiding.

Added benefits is run speed increased to 150% and once flying is enabled flight will be max 400% for those that get mount rewards from raids/dungeons.

This will most likely do away with the selling mythic spam in chats and allows players who are hardcore to play all the time with like minded players.

This will also allow Blizz to make adjustments if required to skills and encounters that affect the mythic server only, regarding PVP as gear does not add much to the PVP power all BG's and Arena can be cross zone queueable as it is on normal servers.

If for any reason a player does not want to continue on the mythic server they can have a free transfer back to the realm they started on ( both ways transfers only once a month ) and then their gear awarded from the mythic server drops to max level heroic gear and they can only carry back the same amount of mats that they originally transferred to the mythic server with so not to mess up the economy of normal servers ( mythic server mats easier to get due to no botters ) and mount speeds return to normal. once a new expansion hits and levelling starts again all players are returned to their starting server with the above restrictions.

What do you guys think could this solve the Hardcore vs Casual debate?

1. There is no problem.

2. There is no debate.

The true hardcore players, only care about the challange THEY get to face. They dont give two shits what everyone else is doing, as long as they get challanging content to tackle.

Everyone else believe themselves to be hardcore, when they in reality are just sad people who need others to have it worse in order to feel any level of self-worth...


It's a game, wishing that part of said game is unaccesible to a majority of the playerbase, simply because of special snowflake syndrome, is down right retarded.

The challange, and the rewards of said challange, is exclusive to organized groups and guilds, the areas and visuals are there for everyone, with rewards that match the level of difficulty faced.

[Deleted]

It's all relative.. there is nowhere defined absolute zero point of mythicness or casualness.
If they would make mythic servers, then inside that there would be also "casuals".
You can think - you already play in mythic only server - just others are more/less mythic than you.
Just change labels, normal dungeon mtyhic-0 and heroic dungeon is mythic-1 etc.
then we would have topics - "why mythic 4 dungeon is not in LFD" or "mythic 0 raid is too easy (current LFR)"

[tikcol]

The backlash is not from mythic players, nor elite players.

The backlash is for elitists who have a weird need to feel special - the more they have that others don't, the better they feel. They still got the feeling of beating a harder content, but they don't want anyone else to beat the content in a easier format.

Players like those are, at the end, toxic.

In the end, there is no debate of Hardcore VS Casual. WoW can easly hold both.

And the irony here is that most of the time, the elitist toxic player, is the casual player.

More precisely, the super casual

[Deleted]

I tell you what, this is a much better idea than prestine servers and thats for sure.

[RoKPaNda]

Casual players should not play EQ-esque MMOs.

Not up for debate, it will not change.

Uh, the entire point of WoW from the start was that it was a much more casual MMO. That's why EverCrack players called it baby's first MMO when it was released.

[A Chozo]

Ehhh it really has more to do with the psychological need for humans in general to stand out from other people. Think of it like how people go out of their way to wear a certain clothing, or hair, or make-up style than someone else to express themselves. In general most people don't want to look almost exactly like the next person.

Why else do you think the first few people on a realm will flaunt the latest blizz store mount, then afterward when everyone starts using it most players typically shelve it? Same concept.

Ohh, I'm well aware of that. The thing is, the people I know simply supress it. I'm friends with the guys on a hardcore raiding guild, first in their realm to down Mannoroth M (very backwaters realm but still, they weren on their own race). Their rogue was the definition of an Elite: always got the strategy, itens, flasks, gems always on point, avoided all avoidable damage, could off-tank, and could eat adds before they spawned with Rogue trickery, with a nice dps.

But his transmog? Some WotLK thing. His mount? Ok, it was the store bat, but it was a gift of his girlfriend. Title? Ambassador. He was proud of his guild's conquest, not the rewards they got. But in WoW, some elitists simply want to flaunt, while I see no goddamn elite saying anything about who is winning what.

You wanna see the real hardcore players show up? Remove Mythic Raiding. Boy the fires would go high. That's what really separates those players from the majority: they go for what is the hardest thing to do. Remove that, they'll search something else, maybe in WoW, maybe in another game.