U.S. Presidential Election Day Megathread [Official]

[DisposableHero]

So.

Someone that understands the U.S. system needs to explain something to me. What purpose does the electoral college serve? At least originally.

Because Clinton won the popular vote by about 140,000~ votes, and yet lost so bad? Is that really Democracy?

A means to simply and quickly resolve elections where the popular vote difference would be much smaller than the margin of error, much like this one. The electoral college resolved this election last night, rather than counting and recounting going on for weeks because the difference in popular vote was 140,000 out of 124,000,000 votes (aka, about one tenth of a percent).

[Asiwassaying]

From the BBC:

"A dark day for the world': Major newspapers and magazines unsparing

Some major newspaper and magazines have published leader articles in the wake of Donald Trump's victory that are extraordinary and unprecedented in their contempt for the candidate.

Here are four examples.

The New York Times:

President Donald Trump. Three words that were unthinkable to tens of millions of Americans — and much of the rest of the world — have now become the future of the United States. So who is the 45th president of the United States? ...After a year and a half of erratic tweets and rambling speeches, we can’t be certain. Here is what we do know: We know Mr Trump is the most unprepared president-elect in modern history. We know that by words and actions, he has shown himself to be temperamentally unfit to lead a diverse nation of 320 million people. We know he has threatened to prosecute and jail his political opponents, and he has said he would curtail the freedom of the press. We know he lies without compunction.

The New Yorker

The election of Donald Trump to the presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American president—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety.

The Guardian:

The unthinkable is only unthinkable until it happens. Then, like the sacking of Rome, it can seem historically inevitable. So it is with the global political earthquake that is the election of Donald Trump as the next president of the United States. If he is true to his campaign pledges, which were many and reckless, Mr Trump’s win will herald America’s most stunning reversal of political and economic orthodoxy since the New Deal in the 1930s, but with the reverse effect. It halts the ailing progressive narrative about modern America and the 21st-Century world in its tracks. It signals a seismic rupture in the American-dominated global liberal economic and political order that had seemed to command the 21st Century after communism collapsed and China’s economy soared.

The Washington Post:

We can’t pretend to optimism that Mr Trump will suddenly shape more rational responses to these problems than he offered on the campaign trail, nor that he will discover a discipline or wisdom he has yet to display. Over the course of his campaign, Mr Trump spoke about jailing Ms Clinton, suing women who accused him of unwanted sexual advances, neutering the speaker of the House and revoking press freedoms. He has spoken of creating a super PAC dedicated to political vengeance. He has promised to deport millions, rip up trade agreements, apply religious tests and sabotage international efforts to fight climate change, each of which would hurt many people."

But hey perhaps they are all wrong, only time will tell...

We all knew the media was anti trump. Their words are meaningless now that the cat is out of the bag.

[Deletedaccount1]

I am not the one that made or makes the ONE reason claim.

I responded to the claim that it is Clinton's fault.. Which makes it a one reason fault.
Nope it isn't her fault.
Her faulty personality is canceled out by his faulty personality if anything.
So, instead pay attention to the message.
And as my first post pointed out.. Demagoguery and Fascism always succeed if unchecked. The common people are vulnerable to it.
America's electorate fell to the same mechanisms that deceived numbers of other nations before.

What evidence do you have that their personalities cancel themselves out other than it sounds convenient?

Trump is not a fascist. I'm pretty sure you are closer to one than he is based off of your original post.

A large, large part of why Clinton lost was because she was unpopular because of things well within her control. People went out in droves to vote for Trump partly because they liked his message and partly because they hated her.

There are certainly plausible scenarios where she could have won if she had played her cards right. The fact that she hadn't visited Wisconsin in over 7 months for one thing.

[Deleted]

But hey perhaps they are all wrong, only time will tell...

Of course they are. Those are pro-Hillary circle jerk newspapers, not unbiased media, what else would you expect from them?

[Deleted]

Deporting illegal immigrants, he has not said he will allow sexual assaults, his VP hasn't got a mandate to torture gay people and him saying he may not accept the result if he felt the election was rigged is not grounds for any sane person to claim "The worry is whether or not there will be elections in 2018 and 2020. That's no exaggeration."

That is an exaggeration and paranoid nutjobbery.

You are exactly the same as the crazies on the other side of the political spectrum, you are fearmongering just like they did, you just don't have the wits to realise it.

It's not an exaggeration by any stretch. Trump has not just called for the deportation of all illegals (which is in itself a ridiculous claim because there are over 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US and deporting all of them is not feasible, nor would it do the country any good.) he's also called for a "complete shut down of Muslims entering the US."

He's not going to formally legalise sexual assault obviously, but he's admitted on tape to doing it and has been accused multiple times; the man is clearly a sexual predator using his wealth and power to avoid prosecution as so many before him have done. What kind of culture does that create in America?

Pence is a massive proponent of gay conversion therapy. And Pence is going to be given a lot of power. Conversion therapy is perhaps the most barbaric practice that goes on in the modern world (literally electrocuting children) and you guys have just voted in a government in support of it.

I'm not sure how to put it any more simply that a man who has discussed not accepting election results is a threat to democracy. We'll never know what he would have done upon losing this election. But by 2024 at the latest he'll be confronted with being forced out of office. Can you really not see why people are worried?

Everything I'm saying here is literally just repeating the position/actions of trump and his party.

[SoundOfGuns]

Yeah the vast, vast majority of voters don't read Breitbart or Infowars. "See what they've done" what have they done? Wrote a bunch of shitty propaganda articles to appeal to the same small group who reads them?

The alt-right didn't do shit and your answer doesn't explain why you think they did.

Your second answer is fine but I still don't think racists won him the election more than protectionists and xenophobes.

I think it played a major role in this though. I don't believe they make up the majority. Thats wrong. I don't even believe most voting for him are "evil" or rubbish like this. Even though i really complain about a lack of knowledge or thought here. But these groups made a good job in making people on the internet not take the accusations seriously and they press the whole xenophobia for years with the way they understand journalism. I don't even believe Trump belongs to that insanely racist bunch but he certainly was fine taking their votes and pandering to them.

[GennGreymane]

[Bodakane]

Yeah the vast, vast majority of voters don't read Breitbart or Infowars. "See what they've done" what have they done? Wrote a bunch of shitty propaganda articles to appeal to the same small group who reads them?

The alt-right didn't do shit and your answer doesn't explain why you think they did.

Your second answer is fine but I still don't think racists won him the election more than protectionists and xenophobes.

Well, you're wrong. Do you know who Steve Bannon is?

[Cybran]

No no no, no short stories from you. Get into the kitchen, get drunk and do a proper essay on your thoughts about the alt right. I love your posts ! I look forward to them and the trashing the Trumpkins will receive. Since we're battling similar background noises, Europe will appreciate the echo.

I would love to reply with one of the meymey gifs. Alas the mods would ban me immediately.


Instead I just want to remind you how wrong you were. Clench your cheeks for afd in 2017.

[Asiwassaying]

It's not an exaggeration by any stretch. Trump has not just called for the deportation of all illegals (which is in itself a ridiculous claim because there are over 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US and deporting all of them is not feasible, nor would it do the country any good.) he's also called for a "complete shut down of Muslims entering the US."

See. There is so much stuff that you can toss at Trump and you lead with this?

- Obama has deported more illegals than even Bush. So Trump doing the same would simply be him doing his job as president.

- Trump did not call for a ban of all Muslims. He called for a temporary stop from people coming from nations with an extremism problem until we can properly vet visitors coming to our country.

When you (and the media) report this out of context "problems" it makes you look silly and does not help your argument.

[Deletedaccount1]

I think it played a major role in this though. I don't believe they make up the majority. Thats wrong. I don't even believe most voting for him are "evil" or rubbish like this. Even though i really complain about a lack of knowledge or thought here. But these groups made a good job in making people on the internet not take the accusations seriously and they press the whole xenophobia for years with the way they understand journalism. I don't even believe Trump belongs to that insanely racist bunch but he certainly was fine taking their votes and pandering to them.

But that isn't why he won.

Racists are people like the KKK right? Xenophobes are different, if you think Trump won because of xenophobic support that is practically a fact that can't be disputed. The idea that Trump won because people didn't like that Obama was black is really pushing it.

[Blur4stuff]

try explaining this election to people in a country without democracy

why would they want to adopt a system that gives the presidency to the person with fewer votes?

that won't make any sense

xenophobia

I may have posted this before, but this is my own personal experience with Trump supporters in my area. Their #1 issue without a doubt was brown spanish speaking people. They despise them. It honestly didn't matter if they were legal or not. They blame them for a lot of problems and hate the language.

The idea of a big wall and kicking out all the brown spanish speaking people is what made them so excited about Trump. I live in a border state so that's probably why.

[Wildtree]

What evidence do you have that their personalities cancel themselves out other than it sounds convenient?

Trump is not a fascist. I'm pretty sure you are closer to one than he is based off of your original post.

What evidence?

Where did you live for the last 18 month?
All surveys serve as evidence for it, how they were equally faulty and unpopular.
And you have some serious issues with definitions here. Trump is the poster child of a fascist.

[Belize]

If it was all about strictly democracy...then why bother with half the states with low populations? The EC prevents them from being disenfranchised. Otherwise only six states (or fewer) would ever matter in the election.

Well, I kinda disagree here. If it was strictly popular votes, then winner takes all wouldn't exist, and smaller states would still count just as much, no? Like, Texas vote 45/50 for C and T respectively with idk, 45K and 50K votes to keep things simple. And let's say NH has 20K votes. If NH votes 75/25, then C would win.

IDK. I guess I have a hard time seeing how it prevents big states from steamrolling smaller ones, since they do right now.

[Asiwassaying]

try explaining this election to people in a country without democracy

why would they want to adopt a system that gives the presidency to the person with fewer votes?

that won't make any sense

Because... I can't even make a funny joke about this. I don't like it at all.

[Deletedaccount1]

Well, you're wrong. Do you know who Steve Bannon is?

The fact that someone from Brietbart was on the Trump campaign doesn't mean that Breitbart and Infowars swung the election. "Well, you're wrong". I don't think I am dude.

[Archonite]

The fault lies squarely at the dnc. They could've had Sanders running, but instead colluded with a Wall Street shill. Sanders would have won in a landslide.

While just speculation, i agree thats what wouldve happened. This wasnt so much a vote for a racist, mysogynist liar, as it was a vote against the establishment. A vote against the same old politicians and backdoor meetings they wouldve gone back to after the obligatory public appearance where they try to fake a smile as best as possible. Its not relevant wether its true or not, what matters is that people believe it. Theyre upset, feel ignored and saw an opportunity to change it. The question when you have a bad foundation for a house is how long you try to keep fixing it until you demolish it and build something new from scratch. For a lot of people things appeared and felt bad enough to make that leap and see what would happen. While i honestly feel bad for the US and its citizens, i cant help but feel an "i told you so" feeling. You cannot ignore unhappiness and frustration this long and expect nothing to happen. Trump didnt fit the image that politicians from either side would want for their candidate, yet him winning proves that most politicians are very out of touch with ordinary people. You can rationalize, analyze and poll them, try to herd them the rigth way but in the end people dont stay sheep forever. At some point they grow up and want to make their own mistakes. I just hope in 4 years the country is still alive and democratic enough for people to build something nice from the pieces.

[Deletedaccount1]

What evidence?

Where did you live for the last 18 month?
All surveys serve as evidence for it, how they were equally faulty and unpopular.
And you have some serious issues with definitions here. Trump is the poster child of a fascist.

They clearly weren't equally faulty and unpopular if Trump just won with who he needed to win with and Hillary didn't.

You were just talking about curtailing the first amendment to prevent people from saying politically incorrect things, that is much more fascistic in my book than anything Trump wants to do.

[Deleted]

False.

You would be correct if it wasn't for the actual numbers.
The voter turnout was higher than in 2012.
Clinton had in most cases the same or more votes than Obama 4 years earlier.

At some point the Kool-Aid is used up. Blaming everything on her is getting seriously old.

Fact, the Trump camp appears to have been correct with their claim of the "silent majority".
While Clinton took the cities in the battleground states, Trump killed her with an unprecedented high count in the rural districts.

No, Clinton is not at fault here.
If anything, the stupidity ingrained in the common man is at fault.
A system is at fault that allows for lying deceiving surrogates to hammer their false narrative into the simple citizen day after day after day on any possible mass media, unchecked, just because...

No, Clinton is not at fault here.
America is at fault. It's love for it's nearly unlimited first amendment with the arrogant belief how America is invincible to words.
No, it isn't. Words factually matter, because humans respond and react to them.
And if you really wanna seek the blame, then look at the First Amendment.
As long as it benefits and enables demagoguery and fascism without any recourse and action. For as long the country will be vulnerable to the Trumps and other narcissists of the world.
That is the price of freedom.
How to counter?
Fix the First Amendment, or fix the level of common knowledge, and education in the population.

And now the truth surfaces. You liberals are truly the enemy of the free man.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The US people chose the Hitler of our time (minus the sharpness and intellect) as their Supreme Leader. He's like a ... Hitler Bieber...

I've never felt my heart sink as a President has been announced before... Hopefully it'll all turn out to be hyperbole and election noise and Trump will turn out to be alright as President...