So another nerf in 7.1.5 is how blizzard is fixing warlocks bad class design??

[Deleted]

They keep saying that's it's only the first set of changes and many more are to come. They said it before , during the deployment and are still saying it.

Celestalon even tweeted that the tuning pass will be done after ALL the changes are up. Please stop being so cancerous all the time.

And peopel comforted themselves by saying the same though alpha and Beta, including the bit where the devs ripped out one of affliction's basic artifact mechanics aroudn which two of it's gold traits were designed and look what happened there!

Honestly, we had alpha and beta and everyone could see how warlocks were doing and poste dload sof objective data on it, and what happened? It went live, that's what.

It's a case of "fool me once"

it's sad, but many players simply don;t have any trust. Who can blame them? Particularly after that "warlock are tanky, we like to double down on strengths, here, have a nerf to your tankiness" incident.

My own take is that these are indeed the intended changes, and that more changes will follow to simply try to ameliorate the worst effects of the first lot. Soem of the changes being made it's going to be very hard indeed to make them make any sort of sense no matter what you follow them up with.

The weird changes to Shadowburn for destro PVp are an obvious example of that. It leaves destro with one workable PVp build and that's it.

[Deleted]

There's a difference between not settle down and being straight out insulting.

This is the internet, and much as in real life, you can't force people to be critically thinking, reasonable, and well-mannered people. You deal with it by ignoring the irrelevent noise.

[crazyman2]

There's a difference between not settle down and being straight out insulting.

There was a time and place for reasonable feedback. That was during legion beta and it was completely ignored.
And you want to talk about insulting? How about what the devs let the warlock class go live as.

It wasn't enough just to ruin the numbers, double dip on RNG (shard generation and destro mastery) , butcher the rotation, and strip all the utility, they took away every exciting visual the class had in WoD and GAVE THEM TO OTHER CLASSES.

It's barely playable after over two months, and 7.1.5 takes another dump on us.
I mean at least other classes are feeling it this time, but everything that's up so far indicates this class is intended to be nerfed again, when it should be the other way around.

[BannedForViews]

Did he say that you simpleton?? They didn't mention anything about ranking. Do you have any reading comprehension?

The class is in a very rough spot now and is a cumbersome as hell to play. We work around but there are so many changes that can be made to make the class more fun.

Infracted - Woz

This got infracted? Iron first here huh Woz...

Keep fighting the good fight....

[Sunlighthell]

They are good at class design, just biased as hell. 1 day of 7.1.5 ptr, mages cried an ocean and devs already confirmed that they will look into giving them ice floes back with nerfing their bracers only by 50%, and I'm pretty sure that warlocks stuck with their retarded changes till the 7.1.5 release like it was in beta and 7.1.

[Deleted]

LOL the devs have apparently been on the mage Discord to reassure them too.

Compare with the way warlocks went live and got a month of silence before the devs were dragged kicking and screaming by a HUGE bombing on the chat channel that couldn;t be ignored

They still managed to get a "stop whining" comment in though.

It was the same when they burnt WoD demonology to the ground, with a flat-out 25%+ flat nerf to practically ALL their abilities, plus nerfs to stat scaling on top that actually meant it was almost 30%. The forums exploded with threads about that and there was dead silence until we got that classic "we don't want you to play it" about six weeks after the nerfs were announced. And not a single one of them was redacted.

And yet Ornyx replied to a mage thread that literally started by calling Blizzard idiots less than 24 hours after the PTR datamining came in.

I think it's just aploy, they know fire mages are stupidly OP, so they will make a pretense of nerfing them to give th eappearanc eof fairness, then they will redact most of them and leave a few token nerfs like that lol 6% to Pyroblast lol and the mages will all go on their knees saying the devs are so wonderful and listening, and every time they hammer a low pop class and get the same complaints they will turn round and say we do listen look at mages

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They are good at class design, just biased as hell. 1 day of 7.1.5 ptr, mages cried an ocean and devs already confirmed that they will look into giving them ice floes back with nerfing their bracers only by 50%, and I'm pretty sure that warlocks stuck with their retarded changes till the 7.1.5 release like it was in beta and 7.1.

Yeah, on the surafce it looks like they are nerfing everyone with locks being nerfed a bi tless so they might go up a bit relatively. Not a chanc eit will stay like that. They are already backing off the nerfs to the special snowflake classes.

The ludicrously overpowered legendary is now looking like a 15% instead of 30% nerf (when it should have been more) and they are "rethinking" about Ice Flows

[forbi]

yeah we are in a bad spot.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

just a simple hero farm with no spec change (full ST). check the ILVL of the 2 mages and mine.

[Deleted]

yeah we are in a bad spot.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

just a simple hero farm with no spec change (full ST). check the ILVL of the 2 mages and mine.

Let me show you my annecdotal evidence of this one try where our mages are underperforming as a proof that warlocks don't need any issues addressed. If you want to be taken seriously look outside of the box you've put yourself in, you cannot draw conclusions from such a small data set, your one Ursoc kill.

A short peek at the statistical distribution of Ursoc HC and Nythendra HC (ST fights) dps by classes clearly shows where destruction stands in terms of single target performance. Which to be honest is the smallest problem with the class, numbers go up and down from hotfix to hotfix, but the clunkyness and mechanical annoyance is something that needs to be addressed.

And now is the best time to do it by providing constructive feedback instead of "Hurr, durr, look at how good I am almost outdpsing those +10 ilvl mages, warlocks are fine.".

[karatakor]

Situation is critical. Nothing significant was really done since Alpha to fix the gameplay and fun to play.
MOP warlock were not perfect but a ton more fun to play.
Seems like they don't take ANY class mechanics complaints seriously.

[Caolela]

It was the same when they burnt WoD demonology to the ground, with a flat-out 25%+ flat nerf to practically ALL their abilities, plus nerfs to stat scaling on top that actually meant it was almost 30%. The forums exploded with threads about that and there was dead silence until we got that classic "we don't want you to play it" about six weeks after the nerfs were announced. And not a single one of them was redacted.

Yes I remember that. They said something like, "Demo had its time in the sun, now it's over..." because they were coming out with their grand new class - Demon Hunter!

/applauselightflashes

Similar to 5.3 when they nerfed KJC and ninja nerfed Chaos Bolt damage -25% against Resil, because they claimed it was somehow "double dipping" from Resil. What?! Then they hid from Blizz forums for a week while outrage ensued. When they finally addressed it, many of us proved it was all lies and FUD with real numbers, sims, and in-game vids & SS's that they could no longer deny. But the idiotic nerfs stayed anyway.

All because some of the 3-button mongoloid melee classes like DK, and the usual entitled mages & hunters, whined that good kiting (non-backpedaling) Destros were blowing them up - instead of, you know, using their toolkits to counter. Later, hunter was going to be the "niche" kiting class. No soup for you, warlock.

Anyone who believes a word Blizzard says is a complete tool. They do whatever they think will result in the most profit. Period.

[Angrie]

If blizzard let their employees use the restroom, maybe they'd be able to read our cries for help... I certainly exploit my bathroom privileges by reading the boards.

[Deleted]

Let me show you my annecdotal evidence of this one try where our mages are underperforming as a proof that warlocks don't need any issues addressed. If you want to be taken seriously look outside of the box you've put yourself in, you cannot draw conclusions from such a small data set, your one Ursoc kill.

A short peek at the statistical distribution of Ursoc HC and Nythendra HC (ST fights) dps by classes clearly shows where destruction stands in terms of single target performance. Which to be honest is the smallest problem with the class, numbers go up and down from hotfix to hotfix, but the clunkyness and mechanical annoyance is something that needs to be addressed.

And now is the best time to do it by providing constructive feedback instead of "Hurr, durr, look at how good I am almost outdpsing those +10 ilvl mages, warlocks are fine.".

Well he isn't, his logs actually how he's being significantly out-damaged by two mages even though he is in the 99th percentile and they are, respitively in the 69th and 56th. The gear level differenc eisn;t huge, so basically you got mages here slacking and they comfortably cruise ahead.

Imagine what that 881 mage woul dhave done if he was 99th percentile too.

Pure single target for destruction is every bit as low as affliction; they do better in Mythic because nothing except Nythendra is single target.

The changes w ehave seen so far do nothing to address any of this, in fact for destruction their single target is worse. And it;s hard to see how they can do a numbers fix on that because Wreak Havoc is still hanging around, you can;t buff up Chaos Bolt or whatever to compensate for the Eradication/Reverse Entropy silliness because cleave would go out of control.

[Deleted]

Well he isn't, his logs actually how he's being significantly out-damaged by two mages even though he is in the 99th percentile and they are, respitively in the 69th and 56th. The gear level differenc eisn;t huge, so basically you got mages here slacking and they comfortably cruise ahead.

Imagine what that 881 mage woul dhave done if he was 99th percentile too..

That's the conclusion you draw, not the conclusion I draw. One of us is obviously wrong, but the author didn't make it clear what exactly he means. He pulls a log where he is outperforming numerous classes he isn't supposed to outperform, and is actually pointing your attention to the item level of the mages not to their performance.

Which to me is an indicator of a sarcastic post in the tone of "changes aren't needed, I am doing well, warlocks are fine".

[Deleted]

>they ruined demonology in Hellfire Citadel patch, but I'm sure they'll fix it before the next expansion!
>it's just a beta, stop whining, classes are not final!
>Legion just released, we'll get hotfixed!
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.1!
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.1.5!
>"Class updates for Patch 7.1.5 are still in progress, with much more to come."
...
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.2!
Either you guys using these arguments are high level trolls, or have the memory of a goldfish.

[Violetti]

>they ruined demonology in Hellfire Citadel patch, but I'm sure they'll fix it before the next expansion!
>it's just a beta, stop whining, classes are not final!
>Legion just released, we'll get hotfixed!
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.1!
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.1.5!
>"Class updates for Patch 7.1.5 are still in progress, with much more to come."
...
>don't worry, fixes will come in 7.2!
Either you guys using these arguments are high level trolls, or have the memory of a goldfish.

what do you mean, warlock was nerfed because of the remake
ppl enjoy new demo

I liked old demo more, but thats a opinion.


The main concern I have about the 7.1.5 changes is that they didnt adress the main problem of destro right now, ST. Instead we got a free talentrow of AoE, since I'm pretty sure we gonna get a compensation for eradiction in form of a general buff. The problem that persists is that WH still outshines the other 2 options by a mile. It doesnt allow us to have comeptive ST without dominating on cleave.

[Zandalariprelate]

You know guys you really need to make thrends and write to any member of blizzard in every social network including facebook and reddit with another class group like the dks and maybe some salty fire mages because blizzard only listen when more than one class is whining just look how they reverted almost all the nerfs to the demon hunters and spriest they together wrote to every blizzard account in internet and them blizzard made two step back

[FelPlague]

And then they said in Blizzcon that classes will be getting their utility back!
YEAH MAN LOOK AT ALL THE PRUNED ABILITIES WE'RE GETTING BACK

LOOK AT ALL THE FREQUENTLY USED TALENTS THAT ARE GOING BASELINE FOR US

aww man its allmost like this is the very start of the ptr, and the patch is still months from coming out, we will see in the next ptr update what they add

[clevin]

They keep saying that's it's only the first set of changes and many more are to come. They said it before , during the deployment and are still saying it.

Celestalon even tweeted that the tuning pass will be done after ALL the changes are up. Please stop being so cancerous all the time.

"it's only alpha"
"it's only beta"
"It's the first patch... .1 will fix it..."

"They'll fix it next expansion"

Yeah. You keep smoking that.

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aww man its allmost like this is the very start of the ptr, and the patch is still months from coming out, we will see in the next ptr update what they add

Sigh. People like this...

Heres' the thing - if they don't want outcry, then MAKE BETTER FIRST CHANGES. They could and should do better initial PTR builds that are closer to what they intend to ship. Oh wait...

[FelPlague]

"it's only alpha"
"it's only beta"
"It's the first patch... .1 will fix it..."

"They'll fix it next expansion"

Yeah. You keep smoking that.

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Sigh. People like this...

well most of it is broken tooltips, incorrect scaling
its allmost like the people who were looking at nighthold gear going "wow all of this gear is shit wtf" meanwhile there was trinkets like "gives 0 haste untill canceled"
if they bring out a update on the ptr, and this stuff is still going on, then weve got a big issue
what we have right now is not worth a POST IN ALL CAPS TALKING ABOUT HOW BLIZZARD ARE IDIOT LIARS WHO SHOULD KILL THEMSELVES AND LET THE COMMUNITY MAKE THE GAME!

[clevin]

well most of it is broken tooltips, incorrect scaling
its allmost like the people who were looking at nighthold gear going "wow all of this gear is shit wtf" meanwhile there was trinkets like "gives 0 haste untill canceled"
if they bring out a update on the ptr, and this stuff is still going on, then weve got a big issue
what we have right now is not worth a POST IN ALL CAPS TALKING ABOUT HOW BLIZZARD ARE IDIOT LIARS WHO SHOULD KILL THEMSELVES AND LET THE COMMUNITY MAKE THE GAME!

And again, they can avoid a lot of this by doing a better first PTR build. Fix the damn tooltips (those should all be external strings so easy to edit. IF they're not, they should fire someone).

You and others keep saying it's too early, we should be patient, we shouldn't freak out and while I get that some overreaction is silly... we're talking a PTR for the SECOND PATCH. Not Alpha. Not Beta. Not the pre-patch. They've had close to a year of design and dev builds. This shit should be minor tuning. The reason it isn't is because they badly fucked up class design. Again.

They need to stop overhauling classes every expansion. When I play 8.0 at 110 it should exactly like 7.x. The newness should come from the new skills added from 110 to 120 or whatever the new max level is. That will get rid of a lot of this crap where they fuck up the balancing until halfway through an expansion.