When do we get to hang woflboy for treason?

[Drewbacca]

Ya know, I kept hearing how much people were pissed at the Alliance after Stormheim, but after I played it, I kept thinking, "That was it?" I'd agree he was a little warmongering at the beginning, but the rest of the zone his moves all made sense.

[Deleted]

Sky Admiral Rogers says: The 7th Legion. The toughest men and women the Alliance have to offer. They, too, have come on direct orders from the king.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Three days ago, the Forsaken fleet set sail from Durotar, heading straight for the Broken Isles. We think Sylvanas Windrunner herself may be among them.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.


any halfway competent commander would never blindly engage the faction leader. first they would scout, then look over the reports and see if it was remotely viable to launch an attack. Greymane did none of that and just went in full bloodthirsty and guns blazing. He didnt even know he would have stopped her (we all see it was pure luck on that), and doing it any other way would basically have ensured that he would have been able to use the skyfire to stop sylvanas with, you know, a massive airborne barrage that would have decimated everything around the area and either killed or seriously wounded her.

instead he just fucked up every possible way. yeah, thats a hanging

Sky Admiral Rogers takes the blame on that one onto herself at the end of the scenario, however. She says, the occasion presented itself and she decided to attack, she thinks she was right and would order the same again. I'm not saying Greymane isn't involved or should not get at least some trouble from Anduin for being overly reckless, but he would not get the blame all to himself. And no, no death sentence. Not for Rogers, either.
As far as we know, they might even have had some intel about hostile Horde activity, which would afterwards prove false, ofc, but they couldn't have known at that time. That the SI:7 delivers false intel is only revealed quite late in the whole campaign.

[Deleted]

And no, no death sentence. Not for Rogers, either.
As far as we know, they might even have had some intel about hostile Horde activity, which would afterwards prove false, ofc, but they couldn't have known at that time. That the SI:7 delivers false intel is only revealed quite late in the whole campaign.

You retrieve some intel in the Azsuna questline.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas isn't just after immortality she's after keeping the Forsaken around to fight the Legion and future threats...

[Donald Hellscream]

Evir is not a god, but a titan construct. She might have given sylvanas control over a new group of Val'kyrs, but unlimted val'kyr?? I don't think so.

And again, Sylvanas is not after immortality, but Val'kyr to ress more Forsaken. She is looking for a way to keep the production of Forsaken going, so that they don't die out because of their losses in war.

Eyir is the Val'kyr goddess and she has the ability to create more Val'kyr, if she was enslaved by Sylvanas she would be able to provide her with an unlimited supply of Val'kyr yes.
Also Sylvanas while also trying to make sure the forsaken doesn't die out, is still looking to become immortal because she is super afraid of dying and going into the shadowlands.

[Traveler Voltin]

Oh shut up people.
Genn had no idea of sylvanas's plans when he started attacking the forsaken fleet.

It was out of hatred and revenge

[tikcol]

I don't think you fully grasp the concept of treason. He sacrificed the Alliance's strongest ship to spoil Sylvanas's plans. I'd call that a great success. He did Azeroth a great service there. Sacrifices need to be made.

How does spoiling Sylvanas' plans make it a great service to Azeroth?

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

How does spoiling Sylvanas' plans make it a great service to Azeroth?

Now we don't have a Lich Queen Ultra Bitch to deal with.

[frogger237]

Sylvanas isn't just after immortality she's after keeping the Forsaken around to fight the Legion and future threats...

So enslaving an entire race of beings that resurrect adventurers to only help the forsaken and possibly the horde is a good thing?

[DustWolf]

So ... with Trials of Valor being out; shouldn't Stormheim's story be concluded now?
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but do we now know what Sylvanas was plotting about with Helya?
Because Helya's now dead ... and no real conclusion was given for that part.

[Deleted]

You retrieve some intel in the Azsuna questline.

Yes, that's right. It's not very precise, but you do find that Sylvanas is after something important. And you investigate more, after the Skyfire is wrecked and then you find out what happens. What I meant was intel before even that. I don't want to spoil too much, but if you played the rogue order hall campaign you find out that there was a lot of bs going on with the Alliance intel and you get told, that false info about Horde hostility has been spread.

Apart from that, we were going to have the Val'kyr on our side anyway, by way of Odyn. Sylvanas antagonizing him wasn't exactly Azeroth's best interest. And she wants the Valkyr to have more Forsaken and to be able to ressurect her if she dies again, because she is scared of the Shadowlands. It is in her story, she does everything she does, because she needs a buffer, be it her Forsaken or some Val'kyr, between her and the Shadowlands. This is probably beneficial for the Forsaken and now for the Horde too, because she also decides she must be careful not to spend too much of her precious buffer and that is kind of a good approach for everyone under her command. But nothing she does is for the benefit of anything more than exactly that. I still have hope that this may change, because I really liked the approach they gave her in the cinematics leading up to legion. I really hope there will be some more to all of this and to her being the warchief.

Apart from that and leading back to Greymane and Rogers... I was just thinking, wasn't it kind of a bad idea from Anduin to send two of the most hateful people against the Horde on a mission to 'spy' on them? I mean, Rogers was already shown as... uh.. very heavy handed..?.. towards the Horde in Pandaria and while I think neither she nor Greymane have gone completely overboard yet, if I had wanted a more peaceful approach and/or a simple scouting mission those two would have been the last ones I would've sent together.

[Maxilian]

@DustWolf, no we don't know what was the thing that Sylvanas promised to Helya (Also dead is only a set back)

[Deleted]

as another member of the horde, they don't fit the horde anymore and neither does sylvanas. they ruined that whole faction in cataclysm, and sylvanas needs to fucking die so it can be put back on the self-hating right path it was before.

Considering she's the Warchief and both previous Warchief's died fairly quickly, I suppose it's not all that unlikely.

[Deleted]

So enslaving an entire race of beings that resurrect adventurers to only help the forsaken and possibly the horde is a good thing?

It's morally questionable and a means to an end

[Kallisto]

You've got a situation where the alliance feels like the horde betrayed them and left their high king to die alone against the Legion. Then Greymane comes in and stops Sylvanus(now the leader of the horde, and suspected of all kinds of warcrimes) from completing some kind of plan to gain more power?

Right....no jury anywhere would convict Greymane of anything. I'm not even a hardcore alliance player and even I can see that any case against him would be SUPER thin.

Yes they would.

They would simply have the prosecutor ask this:

"Would the defendent please explain why they think Sylvanas would betray the Alliance in a moment of clear victory against a common enemy to which the survival of both sides hinges on destruction of said common enemy. Surely a well educated man such as yourself would agree that it is far more likely that not all was going to plan. Another witness on this day even heard you say that this was an obvious trap set by the common enemy. It would take the irrationality of a rabid dog to think Sylvanas and the horde denied themselves victory and safety just to kill Varian."

[Gamevizier]

Treason for stopping Sylvanas from taking control of the Queen of the Valkyr and in turn gaining the means to raise more undead on a massive scale to serve her needs? It's hilarious how many people bash Genn Greymane (and Jaina) for having an anti-horde stance but completely ignore the shady stuff Sylvanas has been doing lately, She was making a pact with Helya: the very same Helya whose Kvaldir were actively attacking Vrykul settlements for no reason other than to murder, enslave and turn the villagers into more cursed Kvaldir.

I think he should become the new high king of the Alliance.

[FuxieDK]

Honestly, that is the only thing i ever think every time i start stormheim. he launches an unprevoked attack on the horde, costs the alliance its most powerful ship, gets countless elite troops killed and its all because he doesnt like the undead.

rogue wolfs needs to be put down

It took 12 years for the first Alliance leader to die... Blizzards typical Alliance favorite means, it will take 12 years and 3 dead Horde leaders before the next one dies..

Sadly, but that's just how biased the game is..

[Moozart]

Honestly, that is the only thing i ever think every time i start stormheim. he launches an unprevoked attack on the horde, costs the alliance its most powerful ship, gets countless elite troops killed and its all because he doesnt like the undead.

rogue wolfs needs to be put down

Maybe you should see the sylvanas storyline on why she was even there up to the point that he stopped her.... he ultimately stopped her from doing some dirty shit

[Gamevizier]

Yes they would.

They would simply have the prosecutor ask this:

"Would the defendent please explain why they think Sylvanas would betray the Alliance in a moment of clear victory against a common enemy to which the survival of both sides hinges on destruction of said common enemy. Surely a well educated man such as yourself would agree that it is far more likely that not all was going to plan. Another witness on this day even heard you say that this was an obvious trap set by the common enemy. It would take the irrationality of a rabid dog to think Sylvanas and the horde denied themselves victory and safety just to kill Varian."

you're judging the situation based on all the evidence that we, the player who is seeing an event from the eyes of both sides, have in disposal. You have to understand that what happened in the Broken Shore was a completely understandable situation, Broken Shore was a desperate attempt by both sides to deal with the burning legion before it could fully invade Azeroth, their attack fails and it results in the death of both faction leaders. now both sides have retreated to lick their wounds and pick themselves back up. Theres still the threat of Legion (and the emerald nightmare) so while a trial or a fact finding council can be formed, it has to wait until the Legion is defeated. both sides are dealing with the half-truths that they have right now which is based on the evidence they have.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you should see the sylvanas storyline on why she was even there up to the point that he stopped her.... he ultimately stopped her from doing some dirty shit

don't bother, the common mentality in this forum is that "if it doesn't bend over to the Horde, it has to die."

[Jenedan]

don't bother, the common mentality in this forum is that "if it doesn't bend over to the Horde, it has to die."

I find your lack of faith in our new Gothic Lolita overlords... Disturbing