When do we get to hang woflboy for treason?

[Donald Hellscream]

The Stormheim opening cinematic starts with Genn opening fire upon the forsaken fleet. It is very clear, that Genn is the attacker and that Sylvanas did not know of him being there. She was prepared for the worst, which is why the Forsaken had an entire amada of bats with them.

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But Evir can die, just as anybody else. They might call her goddess, but she is not a god. Just like Odyn, she is a titan construct. She would be able to provide Sylvanas Val'kyr, but the alliance could always just free her. Also, Sylvanas already have some Val'kyr and she was nothing like a lich queen in Cata or MoP.

I don't where you get this from In the leveling zone in Silverpine forrest and in the opening event of Stormheim, all she is talking about is how the Val'kyr are keeping her people alive and nothing about how she afraid of death. You sure its not some non-canon stuff?

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Have yet to see where Sylvanas is talking about being super afriad of death, even to the point of sacrificing her own people. The silverpine forrest questline is nearly all about Sylvanas, while being ruthless, really caring about her people's future. It is also said very clearly, that the Val'kyr is the only way for her people to have future, now that Arthas is dead.


And the plaque, that Sylvanas uses on the skyfire is more like nitroglycerin then a disease. The forsaken apothecary have found many ways to make chemical explosives.

Okay i was paraphrasing abit but after Arthas' defeat she did try to off herself, in the shadowlands which is essentially hell she mentions only feeling things like hopelessnes, dispair and regret which I am sure she is not interested in feeling eternally so while she may not fear death she probably don't want to go back to the shadowlands anytime soon.

[derpkitteh]

One of the main themes of the Forsaken was them trying to find their place in the world. They did. How does that make them not fit with the Horde?

their main themes were self hate and not wishing their curse on others, and wanting vengeance on arthas.

they're entirely different now, and it's not a good turn in their character.

[Mehrunes]

Treason for stopping Sylvanas from taking control of the Queen of the Valkyr and in turn gaining the means to raise more undead on a massive scale to serve her needs? It's hilarious how many people bash Genn Greymane (and Jaina) for having an anti-horde stance but completely ignore the shady stuff Sylvanas has been doing lately, She was making a pact with Helya: the very same Helya whose Kvaldir were actively attacking Vrykul settlements for no reason other than to murder, enslave and turn the villagers into more cursed Kvaldir.

I think he should become the new high king of the Alliance.

Almost every Vrykul we met tried to kill us. Oh noes, Kvaldir kill Vrykul. And look at all the Val'kyr queens Sylvanas attempted to control at the start of Stormheim when the Forsaken were initially attacked. Oh, wait, it happened afterwards. Like the deal with Helya. Are you saying Genn can see the future? If so, that makes him complicit in Varian's death and makes his cries of Sylvanas betraying them completely baseless.

you're judging the situation based on all the evidence that we, the player who is seeing an event from the eyes of both sides, have in disposal. You have to understand that what happened in the Broken Shore was a completely understandable situation, Broken Shore was a desperate attempt by both sides to deal with the burning legion before it could fully invade Azeroth, their attack fails and it results in the death of both faction leaders. now both sides have retreated to lick their wounds and pick themselves back up. Theres still the threat of Legion (and the emerald nightmare) so while a trial or a fact finding council can be formed, it has to wait until the Legion is defeated. both sides are dealing with the half-truths that they have right now which is based on the evidence they have.

Except they didn't. @Kallisto pointed out that Genn is acting on assumptions and that the assumptions make no sense given Horde's stance towards Legion.

don't bother, the common mentality in this forum is that "if it doesn't bend over to the Horde, it has to die."

You mean like your example of Jaina? Which isn't really criticized for being against the Horde but being a massive hypocrite about it? Yeah, carry on with your idiotic HORDE BIAS whining.

[Deleted]

Lets get rid of the dog-man.
He only think about himself. He is a boring character that needs to die in some brutal way- think MK FATALITY !

[Mehrunes]

Here is your intelligence.

Canonically, Azsuna happens before Stormheim.

Which you base on what?

You are implanting our laws into the warcraft world-sometimes they align sometimes they do not. we are talking about a world where magic exists-that changes the value of ships, etc. Orders did allow him to engage so he did not directly break orders.

Everyone seems to forget that as we are following in the airship her forces attack the skyfire and we must man guns quickly-we then proceed to counterattack some of her ships in search of her and as we are doing that the forsaken forces board the skyfire with PLAGUE vials-the plague which is widely regarded (within the warcraft universe) as a warcrime to use...condemned by even GARROSH the head warcrime committer himself

Your chronology is so off it's not even funny. And not only was the Blight not mentioned during Garrosh's trial for his Warcrimes, making your claim it's "widely regarded as one within the Warcraft universe" a falsehood (and because of that, nothing more than projection of real world and as such rather funny in context of the part in bold), but the Forsaken were supplied by the Garrosh-led Horde with accepted strains of Blight during Cataclysm.

"unprevoked attack" attack, No he had orders, to attack the horde if it was needed, and Like he said to the alliance players" he expects it to be needed" He was allowed to attack. And hardly unprevoked attack, considering sylvanas Killed his peopled, Plagues his land, and killed his son. + yes the Ship died, but so did many horde ships. and in the end, He succeded, He sacrifised it all to Hit sylvanas where it hurt, and he did.

yes blinded by hatress there was better ways to do it. BUT. Not treason, he was allowed, and he succeded

What he said to the Alliance players is that he's going to bend his orders. Nothing about Forsaken fleet sailing around provokes an attack. And neither does a war from half a decade ago that was already over. Especially since Anduin being the High King wouldn't limit himself to the scope of Gilneas.

[Shammyrock]

Technically before they put in zone scaling, Azsuna was the starting zone. Later abandoned but yeah

[Mehrunes]

Who stands to gain the most from such a betrayal? Sylvanus suspiciously winds up as the leader of the horde and the high-king of the alliance gets offed in the process. Sylvanus then goes on to reach for MORE power.

Makes all the sense given how she was ordered to retread by Vol'jin.

[Shammyrock]

Anyway I like Genn and the Alliance being aggressors for a change.

[Mehrunes]

Never, the Alliance isn't the sort of political entity that Greymane could commit treason against. If Anduin was really upset at those events the worst he could do is stop putting Stormwind troops under Greymane's control, banish him from the kingdom of Stormwind and seek to persuade other faction leaders to do the same with the aim of removing Gilneas from the Alliance.

For Greymane to be guilty of treason he would have to be shown to be a working against Gilneas, something that may technically be impossible depending on how the monarchy works for his kingdom.

Except the way this particular alliance works makes Anduin the highest military commander. Genn went against the orders given to him by the High King. Which is treason.

You dont know what Genn's exact orders were, so anything you are saying is pulled directly out of your ass. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

They literally quoted Rogers saying what these orders were.

No it was Not stated as "in self defense" but if a great chance showed itself.(it did not, but he was allowed to attack).
and i can not recall an entire truce was called, i felt it was only for the battle of Broken shore, which also ended it bad blood, but really does not matter, for his orders where clear, he was allowed

He didn't say chance, he said if situation demands it. Forsaken fleet sailing completely unaware of the gunship following them is not a situation that demands attacking them. And the factions signed a peace treaty during Warcrimes.

Yeah...while Sylvanas gets her immortality and then throws anyone under the bus that isn't part of her Undead Horde and will forcefully start reviving corpses and become LK 2.0? Yeah sounds like he should of let her go!

And you base that on what?

You mean we lost the Lich King 2.0? That is exactly what that insane bitch would of turned into if she had the Val'kyr...

Lo and behold, she already has Val'kyr. Scourge ones, even.

[Raetary]

You dont know what Genn's exact orders were, so anything you are saying is pulled directly out of your ass. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

https://youtu.be/ACOJhoZmttY?t=95

[Littlepwny]

Which you base on what?

What does the book says:

1. Sylvanas' Fleet heading to Stormheim.
2. Sylvanas is going to steal great power; easy to realise that v... means vrykul or valkyrie given the context

All of the above is known if Stormheim is done, that would literally make the book worthless and certainly not the most important intelligence in the Campaign.

Therefore it is easy to surmise that Stormheim has not happened during that point. I assume that Blizzard had initially planned for a linear zone progression path before this happens.


Edit: And before you say it, Blizzard has not been questioned about this quest but conjecture has its merrits.

[Mehrunes]

Them existing. #NotMyWarchief

Horde existing warrants an attack against the Horde on the basis of the person of Warchief? Wat?

[Shammyrock]

It does feel as though something is missing from the Alliance scenario to fill in the background info as to why we're suddenly attacking. Referencing the fake Intel from the Rogue campaign would've made much more sense before attacking.

[Mehrunes]

their main themes were self hate and not wishing their curse on others, and wanting vengeance on arthas.

they're entirely different now, and it's not a good turn in their character.

Arthas is dead, basing a race around self-hate is edginess taken to idiotic levels, their main issue with undeath was being killed and enslaved, they do things differently to the undead they raise (which they've been doing on much smaller case since vanilla).

What does the book says:

1. Sylvanas' Fleet heading to Stormheim.
2. Sylvanas is going to steal great power; easy to realise that v... means vrykul or valkyrie given the context

All of the above is known if Stormheim is done, that would literally make the book worthless and certainly not the most important intelligence in the Campaign.

Therefore it is easy to surmise that Stormheim has not happened during that point. I assume that Blizzard had initially planned for a linear zone progression path before this happens.

What the book does not say: it being delivered to Alliance prior to the intro to Stromheim. The book could have very well been delivered after the attack when Sylvanas went missing with her personal ship. If they had the book prior to leaving Genn going all "I suspect the situation will demand it hurr hurr hurr" is somewhat weird.

[Duckz0rs]

and the death of his son.

I never got this argument. Sylvanas didn't kill his son, she tried to kill Genn and his son took the arrow. If a bodyguard catches the bullet for a president the assassin didn't "kill the bodyguard", but the bodyguard foiled an assassination. Why is it different in this case, or is that just in Genn's head?

[bewbew]

Sylvanas isn't just after immortality she's after keeping the Forsaken around to fight the Legion and future threats...

She's making ZOMBIES.

She's the future threat.

[Mehrunes]

https://youtu.be/ACOJhoZmttY?t=95

They made that post as a reply to someone writing that down, so you're engaging in futility.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Horde existing warrants an attack against the Horde on the basis of the person of Warchief? Wat?

Those god damn Forsaken, coming into our Horde and taking out jobs. *shakes fist*

[Littlepwny]

What the book does not say: it being delivered to Alliance prior to the intro to Stromheim. The book could have very well been delivered after the attack when Sylvanas went missing with her personal ship.

That doesn't make sense to me.

1. Captain learns that Sylvanas has ordered them to head to Stormheim.
2. Captain has Staff Meeting with Admiral Harker
3. Harker informs him about Sylvanas' plan
4. The Captain is separated from the fleet due to a storm.

It seems impossible to me that between 3 and 4 we had an attack by the Alliance. Additionally, if Stormheim is already complete, the logbook provides Greymane with completely worthless information and yet somehow is the most important piece of intelligence in the campaign. Also, the following scenario seems impossible for an Alliance Commander (i.e. the player):

1. Stormheim Intro after being personally requested by the King of Stormwind
2. Player abandons Stormheim and goes Azsuna
3. Player recovers logbook
4. Player returns to Stormheim

[Deleted]

Why would we want to put down the one who (albeit for selfish reasons) managed to prevent Sylvanas from pissing off Odyn?

Besides; we, the players, were pretty much (and litterally) onboard with the whole debacle.