[Megathread] Legendary Discussion (Legion)

[ShiyoKozuki]

Can we stop closing 15+ page threads because "they aren't in the mega thread" please?

[Saracens]

Can we stop closing 15+ page threads because "they aren't in the mega thread" please?

No, there are guidelines, please follow them.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Their answer to this keeps changing. At first it was because that would make it a boring grind. Well they added a grind this expansion in the artifact weapon so that excuse doesnt hold much water. Now its because players will have interesting stories to tell about how they got it. HEYS GUYS MINE DROPPED FROM NORMAL ILLYGNOTH WHAT A COOL STORY!!!....

At thia point im convinced theyre just being petty and stubborn.

But the system I suggested doesn't alter that. Token can still drop from normal Il'Gynoth. You just get your choice of utility or throughput.

[Deleted]

I think the Legendary systems ills are fairly easily cured. ONLY throughput legendaries should have bad luck protection. The utility legendaries ones should be an absolutely random drop. So by getting a Prydaz, you are not "reset"; instead, it's just a genuinely lucky thing. Add eventual targeted legendaries--and of course you could target a utility legendary if that would be what you wanted--would roundly solve the problem.

They would probably do themselves a world of good if they increased the streak protection for the 1st legendary and maybe even increased the chance for a 1st utility legendary. But it's probably important to put both types of legendaries on a separate track for the sanity of a lot of their playerbase.

There should be a progression path with useful legendaries and a separate luck roll for utility legendaries. The progression path should be subject to bad luck protection and probably even a strict order of looting a legendary (start with the weakest, end with the strongest, like the progression path of the legendary item in MoP and WoD was). Utility legendaries on the other hand may come or not, but this is not relevant for progression, so I would not mind not getting any of these ever.

[TheKaz]

Disheartened to see the mod team cut off the "Four Legendary Soft Cap" thread. It's a meaningful thing that really does warrant its own thread. I actually am *NOT* the OP of the "Four Legendary Soft Cap" thread but have curated data that backs up his assumptions.

The scope of this thread is very large and it makes it difficult to have meaningful, focused discussion. This thread's purpose is really just a back and forth on the merits of the legendary system (which, again, is worthy of its own thread, however, reverse engineering how the current legendary system works is also worthy of a discussion)

[kryptik93]

Basically anyone who doesn't have his bis / 2nd bis is pretty much screwed once the new legendaries arrive. Can you imagine for a moment that someone has already completed 2k mythic+ and has only 4, 3 of which are utility and worthless, what a frustrating joke of a system.

[Azlo]

Their answer to this keeps changing. At first it was because that would make it a boring grind. Well they added a grind this expansion in the artifact weapon so that excuse doesnt hold much water. Now its because players will have interesting stories to tell about how they got it. HEYS GUYS MINE DROPPED FROM NORMAL ILLYGNOTH WHAT A COOL STORY!!!....

At thia point im convinced theyre just being petty and stubborn.

My story is that heroic Xavius dropped me Sephuz.

4 guildies immediately laughed hard in mumble. Two sent me condolences. I felt like killing myself (yes, drastic, but that was how bad that emotional roller coaster was) for a minute, knowing I blew my entire bad luck protection, and the "first legendary is basically free" protection on something I won't use for very long (at the time I had an 840 ring so it was a slight upgrade to that).

I asked a guildie to enchant the ring, and he laughed at me and offered me a MoP enchant, jokingly saying how that's the best enchant he's gonna give me on that piece of garbage.

Another guildie had been playing on and off but hasn't seen a legendary yet since the start of legion. 2 months of heroics/mythics etc. Probably not as much as some others, but when alts get 3 legendaries in a week, you kind of expect one.

He finally got one yesterday - Sephuz. The entire guild laughed. He went into this string of incomprehensible expletives, and logged off.

---

These are the stories that we get with your garbage legendary system. Some of the recent suggestions (bad luck protection only on good legendaries, bad legendaries are random drop etc. or tokens) are pretty reasonable solutions.

[impending doom]

Quoted from thread: The 4 Legendary Softcap

Edit: This post has been heavily modified for clarity.

Firstly let me state. We actually have someone in our guild with 5 on a single character, but, he had 3 before the "Yea we screwed up one of the biggest 'self-worth' systems in Legion, sorrynotsorry" hotfix.

However out of all the people I know, in all the guilds I have contact with, no one else has heard of anyone with 5/5+ in their social circles.

If we look at http://www.wowprogress.com/character...vencrest/Cerli the guy with the 2nd most AP in the World, and 1200 M+ to his name, he also has 4 on a single character.

Blizzard has insisted multiple times there's not a cap, which leads me to believe their justification for saying such is perhaps there's a softcap (which is vastly different), with diminishing chances/diminishing bad luck protection.

If you could research all of WoW there would be three questions.

a) On average how much legendary chance content did it take people to go from 2-3 on a single character.
b) On average how much legendary chance content did it take people to go from 3-4 on a single character.
c) On average how much legendary chance content did it take people to go from 4-5 on a single character.

My hypothesis is that a) and b) would be similar, and c) is much much much greater.

I am not saying you can't have 4+, I am saying it is far harder getting your 5th than it is getting your 4th.

I've been saving activity feed data for top 10k chars of Draenor-EU since beginning of october. And if my data is correct, the distribution of legendaries looks like this:

Chars with 1: 4495 (45% of total)
Chars with 2: 2378 (53% compared to those with 1)
Chars with 3: 393 (17% compared to those with 2)
Chars with 4: 26 ( 7% compared to those with 3)
Chars with 5: 0 (<4% compared to those with 4)

Keep in mind some of them have more, because I don't have full data for september. But to me it seems strange that the ratio of 3 vs 2 leg. is already so much lower compared to ratio of 2 vs 1 leg. I tried to run some simulations but could not find other way to create similar curve than using higher bad luck protection for people with 0 or 1 legendaries. So maybe the "soft cap" is already at 1 or 2 and after that the bad luck protection gets less and less effective.

[Glorious Leader]

Quoted from thread: The 4 Legendary Softcap


I've been saving activity feed data for top 10k chars of Draenor-EU since beginning of october. And if my data is correct, the distribution of legendaries looks like this:

Chars with 1: 4495 (45% of total)
Chars with 2: 2378 (53% compared to those with 1)
Chars with 3: 393 (17% compared to those with 2)
Chars with 4: 26 ( 7% compared to those with 3)
Chars with 5: 0 (<4% compared to those with 4)

Keep in mind some of them have more, because I don't have full data for september. But to me it seems strange that the ratio of 3 vs 2 leg. is already so much lower compared to ratio of 2 vs 1 leg. I tried to run some simulations but could not find other way to create similar curve than using higher bad luck protection for people with 0 or 1 legendaries. So maybe the "soft cap" is already at 1 or 2 and after that the bad luck protection gets less and less effective.

Their was a bug that was granting people a greater chance for a second one. I wonder if that means the secomd figure.should.be even lower

[zoned]

Got a new theory of why people are stuck at around 4 legs. I think that the duplicate legendary system is broken. So when you roll a duplicate legendary the game blocks it and gives you nothing while also resetting your pity timer in the process. So rather then deal with this broken system blizzard seems to be happy with the person just getting nothing and thinking it's RNG. I actually put in tickets where the GM responded, "well you already have too many legendaries you should not complain". This just leads me to believe they are content with people stuck at around 4 legs for whatever reason. Blizzard admittedly had issues with duplicate legendaries and bugs with the pity timer in the past so this really should not surprise anyone. Feels like they keep fixing one thing and breaking another thing in the process.

So if this is true then at 4 legs you have a 50% chance of procing a duplicate which not only gives you nothing but also resets pity timer. With those odds and no pity timer you could hypothetically be stuck at 4 legs for years. I imagine they know about it and will probably get around to fixing in the 7.2 patch.

[impending doom]

Their was a bug that was granting people a greater chance for a second one. I wonder if that means the secomd figure.should.be even lower

This bug was fixed in september, the data I used starts to count 2nd legendaries only in october.

Got a new theory of why people are stuck at around 4 legs. I think that the duplicate legendary system is broken. So when you roll a duplicate legendary the game blocks it and gives you nothing while also resetting your pity timer in the process.

This still would not make a big difference between 2, 3 or 4 legs. I think it's more likely that the bad luck protection is just stronger for people with 0-1 legendaries. Amount of people with 4 is still quite low, in my stats it's 7% compared to those that have 3, but I bet if you can find 50-100 people with at least 4, probably at least 1 of them has 5.

[zoned]

This bug was fixed in september, the data I used starts to count 2nd legendaries only in october.



This still would not make a big difference between 2, 3 or 4 legs. I think it's more likely that the bad luck protection is just stronger for people with 0-1 legendaries. Amount of people with 4 is still quite low, in my stats it's 7% compared to those that have 3, but I bet if you can find 50-100 people with at least 4, probably at least 1 of them has 5.

Not saying people can't have 5 legs in fact I know people that do. It's just the odds of it happening are artificially low because of what I feel is some sort of bug.

[tohm]

Im starting to lose guildys over this system. ive got raiders in my guild who have played since launch do good dmg dont NEED a legendary to be in the top 5 dps but still want one. 2 of those people both got first legendary this week both were prydazz both players have now given up because finally after 2-3 months of 15-20 mythic + a week, raid clear each week and daily box each day they get a legendary they wont even be wearing because its jewelry and the stats are horrible for both of them. how is this an enjoyable system. And to make matters worse ive played just as much as them and have gotten 3 legendaries all very good for my spec i actually feel bad about my good luck and the bad luck they have had.

TLDR i have raiders who know they dont need legendary to be good but after 3 months when they get the first one and its fucking horrible they want to stop trying.

[Deleted]

Disheartened to see the mod team cut off the "Four Legendary Soft Cap" thread. It's a meaningful thing that really does warrant its own thread. I actually am *NOT* the OP of the "Four Legendary Soft Cap" thread but have curated data that backs up his assumptions.

The scope of this thread is very large and it makes it difficult to have meaningful, focused discussion. This thread's purpose is really just a back and forth on the merits of the legendary system (which, again, is worthy of its own thread, however, reverse engineering how the current legendary system works is also worthy of a discussion)

Thank you for the post, it's precisely why I made it's own thread. The Megathread is not an appropriate place but mods are mods.

[aesthir]

Thank you for the post, it's precisely why I made it's own thread. The Megathread is not an appropriate place but mods are mods.

Agreed, i think it was a good thread and worthy of its own discussion. It is clearly worth discussing these issues since the same happened when I made the thread to open up discussion regarding the possibly bugged legendary drop rates and it turned out it was bugged...
I also do not know anyone with more than 4 legendaries, and clearly something is wrong when some people have farmed more than 1000 mythic+ dungeons and still don't have a 5th legendary.
This leads to a few implications:
for the hardcore:
- If you were unlucky with the first 4 legendaries you have gotten, you will be stuck with these for the foreseaable future and it's better to reroll your char and try again
- If (when), blizzard changes the tuning of your class, you might want to switch off spec, however, since you already have a few spec-specific legendaries, this becomes impossible due to the soft cap on legendaries. Again, it is better to reroll a new 110 char instead of having a main with an off spec.

for the average player:
- it is literally impossible for you to get many legendaries considering people with 1000+ mythic dungeons (probably you won't even run that many over the course of the entire expansion...) are stuck at 4. Have fun being stuck with your prydaz for the entire expansion.

IF there is indeed a soft(hard)-cap, it's unbelievable blizzard doesn't communicate this, as many ppl running hundreds of mythic+ are currently doing this in hopes of getting their bis legendary, which might actually be impossible at the current stage of the game regardless of how much effort you put in.

This could all be solved by having class specific legendaries instead of spec-specific, targetable legendaries and having no soft cap on legendary acquisition. If this were the case, i doubt there would be many 'legendary haters' out there.

[Deleted]

Someone just got his third legendary at Nythendra NHC after being 5% behind the tank in HPS. He continued to go on about how Holy Paladins are useless for raids. Awesome.

[Scarletlion]

Someone just got his third legendary at Nythendra NHC after being 5% behind the tank in HPS. He continued to go on about how Holy Paladins are useless for raids. Awesome.

I would like to punch that guy to death...

[Deleted]

I also do not know anyone with more than 4 legendaries, and clearly something is wrong when some people have farmed more than 1000 mythic+ dungeons and still don't have a 5th legendary.

There were armories linked in the softcap thread of people with more than 4 legendaries. There is no hard cap on legendaries. It might be that the bad luck protection goes away after you have four.

for the average player:
- it is literally impossible for you to get many legendaries considering people with 1000+ mythic dungeons (probably you won't even run that many over the course of the entire expansion...) are stuck at 4. Have fun being stuck with your prydaz for the entire expansion.

If this is bugged i) submit a bug report in game, and post on the official forums about this if you haven't already, tweet the devs all of these are likely to get the attention of someone who can actually test this moreso than posting here. ii) there will likely be a fix in an upcoming patch that addresses this (hopefully they will sort out the legendary system properly in 7.2 and make them targetable somehow) so "for the entire expansion" is hyperbole.

as many ppl running hundreds of mythic+ are currently doing this in hopes of getting their bis legendary,

Those people are stupid.

Running content over and over and over with the sole intent of getting a random drop which might be as low as 0.1% drop chance is just going to cause burnout and frustration. They aren't farmable and aren't intended to be farmable yet. We're stuck with a shitty system but the best we can do is to keep playing to practice and improve your gameplay and forget about the legendaries entirely.

Unless your in a guild that has multiple people for the same spot, of equal skill, then legendaries aren't a factor in whether or not you can raid.

This could all be solved by having class specific legendaries instead of spec-specific, targetable legendaries and having no soft cap on legendary acquisition. If this were the case, i doubt there would be many 'legendary haters' out there.

We still don't know if there is a soft cap or not. If legendaries were targetable then a cap would be irrelevant anyway. Also spec specific items are fine in a world where you can target your preferred one.

That is all that they need to do to fix it. Make the legendaries targetable, and make some kind of in game counter (currency?) so you could see how progressed you were towards obtaining it. If you know that you need 1000 'oojamaflip dust' to get your chosen orange item and you get 1-3 dust from each piece of eligible content but you also know that you could randomly get one to drop from this content too at any point, then the system is fine. You could even turn in legendaries you don't want to get some extra dust, say 250 or so.

People are way too hung up on getting BiS legendary items. In all but fringe cases they are not required items. For the vast majority of players improving your gameplay will do more for your output than autopiloting hundreds of m+ dungeons.
Yes they are great to get, yes they improve your output, who doesn't want the best gear they can get? But they are not mandatory.

[Deleted]

That is all that they need to do to fix it. Make the legendaries targetable, and make some kind of in game counter (currency?) so you could see how progressed you were towards obtaining it. If you know that you need 1000 'oojamaflip dust' to get your chosen orange item and you get 1-3 dust from each piece of eligible content but you also know that you could randomly get one to drop from this content too at any point, then the system is fine. You could even turn in legendaries you don't want to get some extra dust, say 250 or so.

People are way too hung up on getting BiS legendary items. In all but fringe cases they are not required items. For the vast majority of players improving your gameplay will do more for your output than autopiloting hundreds of m+ dungeons.
Yes they are great to get, yes they improve your output, who doesn't want the best gear they can get? But they are not mandatory.

I disagree with the currency progress. I would still like to keep it "rng" as to when you acquire one, but, I'd like it (personally) that it drops 1x SuperDuper Coin, that can be redeemed for any legendary, I can't help but feel the "YES I CAN GO GET IT!!!" feeling would be there, even if it is a coin. You used to feel the same about tier pieces you had to go redeem.

[TheKaz]

Just an update Re: 4 Legendary Softcap.

It's been 6+ weeks since my last legendary. All 4 were obtained on a single character in a single spec (Balance Druid) AFTER the legendary bug fix that enabled people who got a legendary to have an increased drop at subsequent ones. I play in a Mythic raiding guild, so many of the players are focused on min-maxing. Those in this thread that say legendaries are not mandatory have never raided mythic. Legendaries (and which ones you were fortunate to acquire) definitely influence who is in and who is out on progression. If you are a more casually focused player, please be respectful of this fact (as I am of your playstyle!)

Legendary distribution of the players in my guild that regularly grind M+/BG/emissaries/raid is now:
0 players at 5
7 players at 4
7 players at 3
3 players at 2

It's not a coincidence.